?

The .375 Ruger will beat the .375 H&H by a wee bit, in a shorter action. The .376 Steyr was a definite underacheiving whimp.

.532" should be the max brass base and rim diameter. No belt for sure, and no rebate either, hopefully. Of course the actual brass will measure a few thou below that as manufactured, but the wildcatters will soon blow that out to full diameter.

From what I remember, the .376 Steyr was almost the equal of the 9.3x62, not the 9.3x64 (which is about equal to the .375H&H).

George

nobody asked for the Steyr, and maybe six people bought them. Hornady and Ruger are smarter than the average bear, they will offer this bruiser in more than one iteration.
It's like the 9,3x62...you will know it has a future in this country when Ruger-Hornady and/or Remington produce rifles and ammunition for it.
Personally, I would like to see Savage take the lead with this round...but they are a smaller group that has to justify production based 100% on sales numbers. Which always leaves them playing "me too" on new cartridges.

Rich
NRA Life Member
DRSS

.376 Steyr....Odd head odd brass.
The .375 Ruger provides Ruger with a cheap .375 offering they can use in the standard action. Nothing more.

I don't really get the hoopla either Alf,

Its no doubt a fine cartridge, but what does it really offer?

Action...I don't get the 'short action' paradigm. Most .375's are not built on magnum actions as we all know, rather 'magnumized' STD actions. Who actually can afford true mag actions other than Ruger or CZ? Yes, those two, especially CZ have a fair share of the .375 market, but most, that i have seen or shot have been M98 and clones and M70. Yes, I agree, a STD M98 (or clone) that has not been lengthened is more desireable, no argument there, and the Ruger won't need a long mag box (but will need a new mag anyway due to cartridge width).

(Its seems most gun rags for the last few years have proselytized the short actions, how many times have you read that short actions are just far superior to anything else?? Its like the Bean Field era a few years back where major gun mags seemed to imply that unless you had a Jarret Bean Field rifle in .300WBY with a 10x scope, killing a whitetail wasn't going to be very easy...)

So forgetting the M98,lets say an M70 or one of its clones. If you have a .375 Ruger in one, I have a .375 H&H in one, the functional difference in operation will be zero. So in Ruger rifles, there is an advantage, as their .375 is on a full size magnum action where as the hawkeye will be on the STD length MkII (or is it a whole new action?), buts thats just Ruger rifles. Sure, perhaps CZ will chamber it in the STD 550 action..that will be a big boost for sure.

I also see the new Ruger Hawkeye only holds 3 down in .375 Ruger, so there is no practical advantage over the Holland, which holds 3 down very easily on most STD actions, 4 down with better bottom metal.

How will it compete not only with the Holland, but the resurgence in the 9,3x62?
What does it offer over the 9,3x64 except .375 cal bullets that are more available and in a wider selection (although it seems the 9,3 bullets are 'catching up').

How many other successful .375's have there been?
Weatherby appears to have a fair following (the .375, not .378, which seems to be a 'novelty' for most people), the Ultra Mag...popular??

Perhaps it will replace the 9,3x62 in NA? BUT globally, brass may be a bitch to get, whereas 9,3 is easy.

As I said, no doubt a very good cartridge, and as a gun nut I am not one to discount it on 'need' alone, but practically, I don't see it going that far. Perhaps as far as the Ultra Mag of the .376 Steyr??

Juts my 0.02...makes for interesting debate!

I don't see Hornady at all interested in the mass markets....like standard 270 or 30-06 ammo....they're seeking the nitch markets.....

They screwed up with the 17 HMR as it went bonkers on them and now CCI and Remington is making the ammo.....

The 204 Ruger, 450 Marlin, 280 Ruger, etc are aimed at a fraction of the market and Hornady can fill that market with less than full manufacturing abilitys.....They charge a premium for their ammo but they know pretty well who the customer is and what the market is and fill it fairly well.

I doubt there's any intention of surplanting the old H&H offering....merely filling the nitch that they see existing.

NoOne is going to dump their 375 H&H in favor of the Ruger/Hornady offering.....but it just might surprise folks how many 7mm mags will disappear!!!

With a beltless non rebated case at .532 and long action length the case should become the new standard long action magnum case. Wether or not it does will be seen.

For the rifle it does not offer an advatange over current 375 H-H offerings.

The ruger african and remington 798 will be similiar in in price and look. Quality will be the difference.

I would just as soon get a rem 700 xcr than the 20" ruger alaskan.

Why is the ruger alaskan and african $300 dollars more than the other hawkeye models?
The African looks like the regular Hawkeye.

/

Wrong, Alf. The .375 Ruger is supposed to be 6% bigger in case capacity than the H&H. It will land about midway between the .375 H&H and the .375 Weatherby (using Norma-made factory .375Wby brass for the comparison).

It will take no snake oil to equal the 24" .375 H&H with a 20" barreled .375 Ruger, and to surpass it in equal barrels.

I've no use for a short barreled .375 so I doubt I'll sell my M70 .375 H&H and run out and buy the Ruger. Many of those that have bought the bigger .40s and .45s that knock the snot out of them may want to buy the Ruger .375 though. Perhaps they can shoot the Ruger .375, remains to be seen.

Larry Gibson

?

Alf,

the steyr is pretty cool, like a 10.75x68 in that it requires minimal work to get to function in a mauser.

but, it wasn't equal to the 375 HH

the ruger will beat it at the same pressure (the case has more capacity) and avoids several hundred dollars in custom work.


*I* predict it will be the biggest client gun in africa in 3-5 years.. and then die off...

but, then again, roy weatherby brought out the 460 weatherby after the 458 winmag, and it's still selling strong

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
If I look at this cartridge or the little we know of it, it is as oddball as the Styer cause it too cannot be readily made from anything else out there but for the oddball 8x68 to the Ruger and the Styer the oddball 9.3x64 case. Both of these are relatievly scarce and expensive in the USA. So in effect like the Styer one wonders "who asked for it"?

I'm not sure that the specs Scovill put out on the 375Ruger are correct. He took measurements from a case that may not even be what Hornady is putting out as the final product. His dimensions were neither confirmed by Ruger nor Hornady. In fact, Boddington has since published his inside scoop on the dimensions which dispute the Scovill article. This whole 8X68 brass thing may turn out to be hogwash.

Whatever the official specs turn out to be, I'm sure you'll have little difficulty obtaining brass and/or ammunition from Hornady. It may turn out to be .532 at the case head and base and may turn out to maximize your potential w/ a standard length cartridge in bullet sizes both under and over .375". Of course if you wish to cut up a standard length action to squeeze in a long 375H&H class cartridge, then go for it.

I see this as a viable alternative to the 375/338WM or 416Taylor. It will be an additional option for builds on standard length Mausers and it opens the door for left handers using readily available Rugers for reasonable cost big bores. Recoil may or may not be excessive, but it should make for a fairly light and compact rifle that may be worthy of carrying over distances while still giving big bore performance.

GVA

I for one will be trading in my .375 H&H for the new Ruger.(cartridge, not rifle) What I think most people are missing is that no longer will the shooting comunity be hostage to a belt for a true magnum cartridge in a standard length action. I believe we will see in the next five or so years a whole new line of magnums from 7mm to .458. And to our benifit it will not come at the price of RUM sized recoil, or the expense of true mag. sized actions , or the cutting of standard actions to fit the larger sized H&H based cartridges.
What we now have is a platform to base a new generation of mags. on that does mot require yet another rim diameter or a rebated rim. Nor will there be the R&D required to fit magazine boxes that will reliably feed them, a.k.a. the RUM's amd the WSM's.
I'm even going to go out on a limb here and predict that Rem., Win., and Fed. will have ammo available before the end of '07, and that Rem. will have a rifle chambered for it.
Like it or not, we are in a new era of magnums

quote:

Originally posted by lshopper:
I for one will be trading in my .375 H&H for the new Ruger.(cartridge, not rifle) What I think most people are missing is that no longer will the shooting comunity be hostage to a belt for a true magnum cartridge in a standard length action. I believe we will see in the next five or so years a whole new line of magnums from 7mm to .458. And to our benifit it will not come at the price of RUM sized recoil, or the expense of true mag. sized actions , or the cutting of standard actions to fit the larger sized H&H based cartridges.
What we now have is a platform to base a new generation of mags. on that does mot require yet another rim diameter or a rebated rim. Nor will there be the R&D required to fit magazine boxes that will reliably feed them, a.k.a. the RUM's amd the WSM's.
I'm even going to go out on a limb here and predict that Rem., Win., and Fed. will have ammo available before the end of '07, and that Rem. will have a rifle chambered for it.
Like it or not, we are in a new era of magnums

lshopper.....I like your spirit!!

Finally we have a case thats about equal to Newtons work but a century late. The new case does not use a belt nor suffers a rebated rim.

I don't think that many hunters really use big bores that kick as hard as the 375 Ruger but many use 300 and 7mm mags.

I for one am not trading my 375 HH's.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
RIP:
What is the case capacity of the Ruger ? The impression given by Scovill is that the Ruger will get close to or duplicate the H&H ?????

I looked in Howell and the original 35 Newton on which this thing is supposed to be based displaces 123 gr water and the H&H 132 gr water ? So very close indeed.

Alf, by this system, the .375 Ruger will displace 139.92 grains of water. A little bird told me Dave Scovill is blowing smoke out of his hiney. Believe what Craig Boddington said in Guns&Ammo. He was on the ground with Steve Hornady, saw the cartridge, and talked to Steve in Zimbabwe during the debut Buffalo Hunt of this cartridge.

Scovill was just measuring photos off the internet like we do here. He had other bad info in the article in Rifle Magazine that you took the photo from, such as the .375 Epstein was derived from the .338 WinMag.

Rip is going out on a limb here and predicting that the .375 Ruger will have a max spec of .532" diameter for rim and base. The actual brass in hand might measure .529" to .530" to allow an easy fit in a minimum chamber.

I read Dave Schovill's article in Rifle magazine as well.

He is giving different numbers than everything else I've read about the new .375.

I'll just wait and see what the chrono has to say about it. I do have to say however that the Hawkeye is about the most usefull thing Ruger has come out with in quite awhile.

In fact it is damn near an exact copy of one of my .458 Lott's I built about 5 years ago. In fact it is just a bit strange to me that that same .458 Lott spent some time in Prescott Az sveral years ago with a VIP who is dear and near to the Ruger boyz. Hmmmmm.

Does this look familiar to anybody?





Uncanny isn't it?

quote:

I'm even going to go out on a limb here and predict that Rem., Win., and Fed. will have ammo available before the end of '07, and that Rem. will have a rifle chambered for it.

I will probably buy one if Remington chambers for it.

I like bottleneck/nonbelted cartridges. While the H&H is classic it doesn't look much like a standard modern cartridge with it's slow taper.

I think a 338 Ruger would be a killer, the 35 would be great, but it isn't the love of USA along with the 9.3.

You guys crack me up what's the big deal with the 375 Ruger...

I dunno lets see 300 H&H, 300 Win Mag, 300 Weatherby Mag...they all range between 2900-3100 fps with 180 grn bullet...like anything on the planet is gonna no the difference...

I am not even counting the 300 WSM, the 300 Dakota, and the 300 SAUM...

and like we need the 30/378 and the 300 Ultra Mag...

Oh and hey I almost forgot...does somebody not think you can squeeze 2850 fps out of a 30-06 with a 26 inch barrel and loading bullets a little far out...and of course game will know the difference between 2850 fps and 2950 fps...oh yea and we can all tell the differnce in 4 inches of hold on an animal at 325 yds.

This is not about step function improvement this is about incremental...its about 31 flavors and blondes vs redheads and Ginger and Maryann...

Hell you could argue that anything other than a 22 LR a 30-06 (125-200 grn bullets) and a 375HH (260-300 grn bullets) is just playing in the margins.

The Hoopla...magazines need to write about something

Well, I think the gun companies and ammo manufacturers should quit making anything new and just make the old stuff and say "screw you all". No more new products since you all are so happy with the old stuff. For one Hornady or Ruger aren't twisting your arm to buy one. They are not confiscating your your old 375 H&H and demanding you have to use a 375 Ruger. For one I'm glad to see the demise of POS belted cartridges. They were on the most part designed as a sales gimmick. About one of the few that needed something to headspace on was the 458 Win mag. The rest are just head separation vehicles unless an advanced reloader knows how to get around it. If you're going to have a big fat cartridge, because of the belt, by god lets make one that uses that girth for powder capacity...and Hornady/Ruger did.

Guess I'd better add some info I recently received from a friend who should know. A .375 Ruger cased was filled with fine-grain powder, then poured into a .375 case...some overflowed. Take that for whatever.
Hornady's case, without the belt, yet .532 base dia., will be a wildcatter's dream. Increases in powder capacity over the std magnums while still fitting in std length actions, and maintaining magazine capacity.
Rechambering will be a cinch, if the original chamber wasn't cut maximum.
No initial worry about foreign manufacturers flooding the US with 9.3x62 rifles, cutting into US sales.
No worry about African minimums in DG caliber size.
Something new for us to play with and argue about.
What could be better than that?

quote:

Originally posted by prof242:
Guess I'd better add some info I recently received from a friend who should know. A .375 Ruger cased was filled with fine-grain powder, then poured into a .375 case...some overflowed. Take that for whatever.
Hornady's case, without the belt, yet .532 base dia., will be a wildcatter's dream. Increases in powder capacity over the std magnums while still fitting in std length actions, and maintaining magazine capacity.
Rechambering will be a cinch, if the original chamber wasn't cut maximum.
No initial worry about foreign manufacturers flooding the US with 9.3x62 rifles, cutting into US sales.
No worry about African minimums in DG caliber size.
Something new for us to play with and argue about.
What could be better than that?

Thank you, prof242. The .375 "H&H" overflowed. Sounds like the .375 Ruger is about 6% bigger than the .375 H&H. Dave Scovill was shut out from the inside scoop and was imagineering and fabricating some BS.

quote:

Originally posted by prof242:
Hornady's case, without the belt, yet .532 base dia., will be a wildcatter's dream. Increases in powder capacity over the std magnums while still fitting in std length actions, and maintaining magazine capacity.
Rechambering will be a cinch, if the original chamber wasn't cut maximum.


No worry about African minimums in DG caliber size.
Something new for us to play with and argue about.
What could be better than that?

In all seriousness, change that to the AR cases, and that's the only thing that can be better. Roughly 4% larger capacity than the 416 rem, 458 lott, and 470 capstick. and DROP into standard 338winmag length actions

http://www.weaponsmith.com/AR-rounds1.html

Very photogenic and svelte-looking 'African' rifle at price everyone can afford? If MSRP at Ruger site is accurate they should hit shelves at 800+/-..USD.
Lets face it, that Ruger Magnum in H&H is nice looking CROWBAR.
Most of the .376 Steyrs were those fugly militarish 'Scout Rifles', so it's useless to compare that chambering to the new Ruger.

375 Ruger will be a bigger hit in the US than the Steyr.

1. Better or performance
2. Better marketing (European vs American)
With two of the US shooting icon companies bringing it out.
3. I think that it is a modern cartridge, that equals the performance of the old H&H but it will be packaged in a rifle that is more designed to todays taste.
4. You have a cartridge that will plain get the job done. Without all the undue fuss of magnum actions, long cases and tapered cases.

I sold my CZ 375 H&H because it was too big and heavy of a gun for general all around hunting. I figured if I was going to be lugging that much gun around I might as well have the extra bullet diameter of a 416 or 458. I chose the 416.

quote:

Originally posted by prof242:
Guess I'd better add some info I recently received from a friend who should know. A .375 Ruger cased was filled with fine-grain powder, then poured into a .375 case...some overflowed. Take that for whatever.
Hornady's case, without the belt, yet .532 base dia., will be a wildcatter's dream. Increases in powder capacity over the std magnums while still fitting in std length actions, and maintaining magazine capacity.
Rechambering will be a cinch, if the original chamber wasn't cut maximum.
No initial worry about foreign manufacturers flooding the US with 9.3x62 rifles, cutting into US sales.
No worry about African minimums in DG caliber size.
Something new for us to play with and argue about.
What could be better than that?

If you look at the necks on both cases the 375 Ruger is a tad shorter then the H&H so that overflow of powder means means the Ruger is holding more powder in the powder area, not just the neck since he filled the case up with whatever media he used.

Max

I see that on the 24hr forum it's posted that Steve Hornady and Boddington were on the Guns and Ammo TV show giving the basic official specs on the 375Ruger. It's posted that Mr. Hornady said the case head and base are both definitely .532" w/ a straight case taper.

Do you think that they threw Scovill a curve ball making sure he got a goof-ball case/cartridge for him to run an article on. Make him look bad and out of the loop while making Boddington look good with hands on information. I like reading Scovill articles and I have difficulty thinking he'd make stuff up or use his soap box to make controversy for Hornady if he was left out the loop. Sometimes it is near impossible getting thru all the B.S. to find the brass tacks.

GVA

GVA,
Nowhere in the article by Scovill does it say he actually had some of the brass to measure.

" ... Since no one at Ruger or Hornady is talking (to Dave), details of the case design have not been released, which pretty much leaves everyone hanging until the 'official' unveiling. We now know, however, that the .375 Ruger is essentially the same as the .30 Newton ..."

What little birdy told him?

Dave then went on to say:

"Measurement of the .375 Ruger shows it is .522 inch at the base and rim and 2.568" long ..."

What happened was the measurements were made off an internet or hardcopy photo, and there was enough linear distortion of the image or measuring technique to screw up the numbers. My guess.

The photos of forming .375 Ruger from 8x68S brass are mockups I could do at home with my various cutoff dies collection.

The real .375 Ruger photos are internet snatches.

I just wonder which underling fed Dave the bad poop in such a convincing manner. Donald Trump might fire him.

quote:

Do you think that they threw Scovill a curve ball making sure he got a goof-ball case/cartridge for him to run an article on.

Steve Hornady may be many things but he's not a liar.

Scoville got his information (good or bad) from some other means.

ALF,

The Steyr was doomed from the word go because it was introduced as a niche cartridge in a low volume rifle. It also could not measure up to the 375 H&H which is benchmark in this caliber.

The 375 Ruger is being introduced into a potentially higher volume rifle by a well established brand name to a very large market. Further, it is more or less equal to benchmark 375 H&H in terms of power. As the oddball head size; that's a new one on me. Scovill is the only person I've read that claimed an 8x68s headsize. Everyone else specifies a .532". I think it Hornaday would be remiss to develope anything on the 8x68s. Further, in terms of a manufacturing, it makes better business sense to make a .532" head size to negate any extra machining.

To directly answer your question, I doubt you're missing anything. There is no real difference over the Holland & Holland other than length. This is more a move to sell more rifles than anything else. Still, I do hope Ruger markets this well and the cartridge makes a good enough showing that it establishes a good following. The average American John Q Sportsman rarely needs anything larger than a 30-06, but wouldn't it be neat to have a few 375's in the mix somewhere?