yes my 470 may be enough but it’s like the old adage “son why do you shoot a .45?” “Because they don’t make a .46” lol

quote:

Originally posted by Karl:
partly you do just because some men are chosen naturally to have ultra large bores and you owe it to others to be that example of manliness/masochism. Also for those near misses of .11" from the animals brain with a 470 whereas the 577 would have scored a hit.

Yes you do---check your PM's

Yes you do ,You need a 577 and a 600 ! don't listen to the whimpazoid 375 H and H crowd who want you only to own a 375 H and H and constantly bleat, '' its bullet placement not bullet size'' [gay mmmm] well then ! all you need is a 22 magnum with solids ! if bullet placement is all that matters !

Ive never seen less than a mint bore in any of the big big boys, whats that tell you..Omit the old English guns with bad bores as that's from abuse not shooting..

Ive never had a problem killing anything with a 375H&H, and those who profess, profess from pernoia! not knowledge..If a 300 or 350 gr. 375 bullet will penetrated a buffalo from stem to stern if has to qualify, and btw a 375 will out penetrate a 500 or 600, and most other calibers with the exception of the .338 and perhaps the big 7s at times..

Can I shoot the biggest of bores, I have and I can. and I do from time to time, but I understand the tough talk about pussys with the .375, yep they are all mouth and testosterone. some with a touch of humor..Probably my all time favorites have been the 404 Jefferys, and the 416 Rem. I like the 450-400, and not much on the .470 NE.. but for a one gun safari I would opt for a .375 every time.

Ray,
I appreciate hearing from those a little more elder.

Yes, 375 works, works well.

But if you had an accurate, medium-weight rifle in .416 or .423 with a 330grain GSC-HV at 2600fps, mightn't you prefer that for a one rifle load, buffalo and plains?

Diameter counts. Some year I'm thinking of getting a 416 Ruger to downgrade from a heavier 500 and CZ 416Rigby (loaded 350gn at 2820fps, 6200ft-pounds). The choice will probably be that or matching my wife with her 375Ruger. Advice from an experienced Africanist who has passed 80 will be weighed carefully. I wonder what Selby would recommend?

As recorded elsewhere in these pages, my experiments with creating the rimless, bolt action equivalents of double rifle cartridges has extended to the .577, and shooting my twelve pound .577 VSRE, the bolt gun equivalent of the .577 NE, led me to the conclusion that it had no place in my collection of hunting rifles for dangerous game.

The reason is simple: each time I fired it, the recoil, which I experienced as an irresistible push, forced me backwards two steps, and I have been in situations with dangerous game where that much room was simply not available.

I have concluded that my .500 and .505 SRE cartridges, which duplicate the performance of the .500 NE in a bolt rifle, are completely satisfactory for my purposes and allow me to fire a string of shots rapid fire, if the occasion calls for it.

I don't have any experience in hunting dangerous game. But my simple idea is:

Take the biggest one you can shoot with reasonable comfort.

Here is me shooting 585 HE, with flu and 103 F fever. 750 gr at about 2400 fps in rifle under 11 pounds.

https://youtu.be/W4iYhHg2izg
https://youtu.be/ythHG-898mY

I think I take it easy. But want to ask you: Is it OK how I handled it or is it too much for DG hunting?

Thanks
Jiri

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
Ray,
I appreciate hearing from those a little more elder.

Yes, 375 works, works well.

But if you had an accurate, medium-weight rifle in .416 or .423 with a 330grain GSC-HV at 2600fps, mightn't you prefer that for a one rifle load, buffalo and plains?

Diameter counts. Some year I'm thinking of getting a 416 Ruger to downgrade from a heavier 500 and CZ 416Rigby (loaded 350gn at 2820fps, 6200ft-pounds). The choice will probably be that or matching my wife with her 375Ruger. Advice from an experienced Africanist who has passed 80 will be weighed carefully. I wonder what Selby would recommend?

Well, after shooting about a dozen water buff with a .375, and having taken 8 Cape buff with a .416, I would take the .416 every time. BTW, I used Swift AFs for both the .375 and .416.

Jiri,

I once had a friend who shot skeet with an automatic shotgun using much the same stance you use in the film clips. It certainly transfers most of the recoil directly to the shoulder of the shooter, since there does not seem to be much room for "give", with all your weight forward in that manner.

My question would be, how effectively can you manipulate the bolt for a second and third shot in that position? If you were shooting a double rifle, that would not be an issue, at least for the second shot.

I weigh 165 pounds (75 kilos) and stand 5'8" tall. You appear to be somewhat larger than me. I have no trouble handling the recoil of my .505 SRE, which weighs 8.75 lbs. and fires a 570 grain bullet at 2150 fps. It develops 97 ft/lbs of recoil energy and 28 fps recoil velocity. It develops 245 ft/lbs of momentum or 1089.81 Newtons of force.

The .577 VSRE is a different matter. It weighs 12 pounds and fires a 750 grain bullet at 2050 fps. It develops 106 ft/lbs of recoil energy and 24 fps recoil velocity. It develops 288 ft/lbs of momentum or 1281.87 Newtons of force.

It is that extra 200 Newtons which evidently tips the scale for me and prevents me from cycling the action and getting back into firing position in time to fire an effective second shot, let alone a third or forth one, as I have once been called upon to do.

I once made two rapid shots with my .505 at an elephant while I was perched atop a termite mound. The first shot was a head shot, which put him down and the second was through the heart, just to make sure. I could not have fired that second shot with my .577, because I would have been sprawled on the ground.

All this is hypothetical, however, since I will be 80 on my next birthday in February and suffer from neuropathy in both feet and have effectively lost the sight of my right eye. I have taught myself to shoot left handed and still get around via John Deere Gator, so I expect to be hunting again this deer season.

Good stuff keep it coming. Can't wait to use my 505 soon so I have a basis on the really big bores. I agree the .375 is good, the 416 really good, 458 Lott great can't wait to see how the 470 NE and 505 add up. And maybe something bigger.........

For most of my cape buffalo I used a 404 and a 416 Rem., a 9.3x62, 450-400, to a lesser degree a 470, a 505, a 500 Jeffery IMP, a .338, and yes a 375 H&H and Ruger..and some others..I always wanted to use a different caliber on every hunt as a rule..

I found the 375 H&H always worked for me, but I did see it fail on straight on shots, and read of that but didn't believe it until it happened in my presence..but don't shoot them straight on would be my advise.

All these caliber work when the shot is placed properly at the proper time..the best option is make a kill shot to start with..

I decided long ago there just isn't much difference in most of them with a proper bullet placed properly and that the famed "stopper" so often used in such discusions is nothing more than a plug in the bath tub..Only a proper placed bullet stops a charge or turns a charge IMO..

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
the famed "stopper" so often used in such discusions is nothing more than a plug in the bath tub..Only a proper placed bullet stops a charge or turns a charge IMO..

It's statements like this Ray that make it obvious that much of the experience you've claimed is suspect.



I'd agree that a properly placed bullet to the CNS is just about the only thing that will stop or turn a buffalo charge, but that statement does NOT apply to elephant. A close hit or should I say, a close miss to the brain on a elephant with a large caliber weapon will certainly turn, stop, or drop them. And the bigger the weapon, the further that miss can be.

I believe you'll find Buzz will say the same thing, being one of the reasons he switched from a 416 Rigby to a 500 NE. For what ever reason, elephant seem to have a "glass jaw" when it comes to being hit in the head with a big gun. That's not to say all you've got to do to stop or turn an ele is to hit him in the head. Nope. It has to be close enough to the brain to sufficiently jar the organ. He / she may well get up again and require finishing but the stopper rifle does have merit.

A great example of this is the tuskless hunt Jines and Buzz undertook on one of Buzz's videos. The cow charged them viciously, both men fired and dropped her just a few yards from making contact. As Buzz and Jines moved away, she got up and ran the opposite direction apparently no worse for the wear with Buzz finishing her off. Perfect example of "STOPPING" a charge with less than perfect bullet placement.

Of course, a perfect hit to the brain is much more desirable than a close miss, but I've yet to meet the guy who has never missed his shot on occasion.