I have a New Haven Model 70 in 416 Rem Mag that
I just acquired. It shoots nice tight groups at 100 yds with Hornady 400 DGX from a clean barrel. By the twelth shot it is opening up to 3" or worse. Should I lap the barrel, just clean if frequently, start over with a break in procedure. The rifle shoots pefect right after cleaning, but steadily loses grouping after that. Any suggestions?

Is it a problem of a clean barrel or a cold barrel ? If it's a cold barrel problem it might be a bedding problem.

Mete

The barrel is allowed to cool between shots.

The good news is it's not your prairie dog gun!

Seriously, I would just work on keeping it as clean as possible when in the field. I carry a .41 caliber pull-through pistol cleaning bore snake on safari (takes up very little space!) and I run it through the barrel every few days or so if the rifle has seen heavy use or rain.

What other bullets and powder have you used. What were the results. This sounds like fouling and maybe a change of powder and/or bullet issue. I would work on powder first.

Hornady copper filed real bad in my 9.3. Try barnes are a frams. Go back and do some barrel break in.

JD

Thanks guys, keep it up.

I'm not a reloader, so Hornady DGX only ammo so far. Shoots great for 3 shots out of clean barrel. My CZ 416 Rigby with same brand of ammo just shoots lights out and doesn't need frequent cleaning. Go figure. Maybe another brand of ammo will work better, maybe a bedding issue, ???

I had the very same problem with a Mod 70 in .416. Shoot it 20 rounds and clean it for 4 days. I had the barrel lapped, I fire lapped it with Tubbs grit embedded bullets. Nothing worked. It now belongs to someone else. Only solution I know of is a rebarrel or different make.

quote:

I have a New Haven Model 70

How close to the shutdown? I have no personal experience, but I've heard and seen that the last few months' production was very poor quality.

LWD

It does indeed sound like a rough barrel.

I would first try other bullets and loads, as some bullets tend to foul less than others in certain rifles.

Although I understand that the DGX uses a fairly standard gilding metal jacket, and those tend not to foul as badly as copper in a rough bore.

More shooting should help, if that's any consolation!

Hi Butch,

Is this the rifle I traded you for the Swarovski? If it is and you can't get it to shoot properly, let me know and I will buy it back from you when I get back to the Mainland if you want.

I was using 400gr tsx and getting good groups, but I was only working up loads, so may not have shot it enough with a consistent load to notice any inaccuracy.

Also, I do not think it was manufactured in the last few months of operations at New Haven.

Lee

Hey Lhook7,

Thanks for your offer, but I don't think it is a major problem. I will work with it some more. I do intend to try some Barnes loads in it and maybe a light lapping by the gunsmith. I like the rifle and will get it settled down.
It may just be my choice of ammo.

You're welcome Butch. Good luck with the loads.

Lee

I would just shoot it a bunch with cheap bullets if your a handloader, I have seen more than a few rifles that started shooting like a house afire after about 200 to 250 rounds and that apparantly got the wire edges ironed out.....

big bores seldom get fired more than 3 time on DG, and if so after that its probably close enough not to open up a group much, but you definatly need to smooth the bore up, check the bedding screws, maybe glass bed the rifle tight, and have the bore lapped and maybe check the crown.

Also test yourself for flinching, perhaps after 4 or 5 rounds your subconscious is working on you. It happens to everyone at one time or another, the smart money always keeps this in mind and has someone load the gun one at a time and try an catch you at it..The fact that you shot a great group the first time can be a clue. I test myself two or three times a year and I have been shooting big bores for about 55 years I guess.

shoot 10-20 rounds.. DO NOT CLEAN IT.. mebbe oil it...

then take it out another day and see if its fatigue ...

you might can find someone close by to help you learn to reload.. and speer 350gr magtips are cheap and accurate...

barrel might be rough... some mother's billet polish, or any nano polish at autoshack can help...

or a tubb's final finish, which you can duplicate for 416 with cast bullets...

quote:

Originally posted by BEGNO:
I have a New Haven Model 70 in 416 Rem Mag that
I just acquired. It shoots nice tight groups at 100 yds with Hornady 400 DGX from a clean barrel. By the twelth shot it is opening up to 3" or worse. Should I lap the barrel, just clean if frequently, start over with a break in procedure. The rifle shoots pefect right after cleaning, but steadily loses grouping after that. Any suggestions?

Sounds like a keeper to me! Nothing wrong with that.Your are shooting an african cartridge and not a target round like a 308.On top of that you are shooting at 100yds and grouping tight until 12 rds! I can only suggest you use some JB on a patch on a bronze brush to keep it shooting as good as it is.Oh yeah,and don`t shoot to many solids they are really hard on the rifling.

I have a Winchester Custom Shop Mdl 70 in .416Rem that was built for me around the turn of the century. It's killed a number of Cape Buff and some large PG. It shoots Remington and Superior ammunition using the Swift A-Frame and Barnes solids, both at 400gr. I have never taken notice of any accuracy problems, and regularly shoot 20 rounds during range sessions. This is a SS rifle with a synthetic stock.

As has been stated above, your "problem" is not an issue in practical terms vis-a-vis DG hunting, as you will hunt with 3 down and 1 up, giving you a 4 shot capability without need to re-charge the magazine. However, some of my Buff didn't know they were dead and did require more than 4 shots prior to their surrender.

You have a great rifle in a great caliber, built for anything in Africa. Good luck sorting it out.

Try different factory loads. My 8x57mm will only shoot 200 grain Accubonds. Sub-MOA. Other ammo makes the target look like buckshot.

Now, I have a Ruger 375 H&H (the big nice model). It shoots everything well.

My M70 416 Rem Mag was manufactured in 2000. The first three rounds touch at 100 yds using 350 gr Speer Mag Tips and Swift A Frames. After that things start opening up.

I KNOW the problem is me. Just a lightweight I guess

I have a New Haven 375H&H SS. The bore is extremely rough. I gave up on TSX's as a result as the cleaning required drove me nuts.

In fact, close to the muzzle you can see a land that is raised more than the others and rough as anything, with tooling marks on the surface. When I noticed this I panicked and thought of cutting back the barrel to remove the "flaw". When I shot it I was pleasantly surprised.

Even in my 375 (a "medium bore") this is a non-issue and I've hunted some great animals with the rifle. If you want a big bore range gun rebarrel it. If you want a hunting rifle with which you can do reasonable practice too, you already own it.

In the meanwhile whilst you decide JB it a bit (don't overdo it) to see if it helps and don't allow fouling to build up too much. You may try Moly coated bullets. I'm not a great fan of Moly (without opening that debate), but some say it helps.

Another vote for some work with JB Bore Cleaner. I have had good luck with that on barrels that tended to foul quickly.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
I would first try other bullets and loads, as some bullets tend to foul less than others in certain rifles.

That would be my next step as well. I would try a variety of different bullets to see if that cuts down on the fouling. Not sure what is available in commercially loaded .416 Rem these days. Might have Superior load up 15 rounds each of TSX, Swift and Woodleigh and see what result you get.

Try some of this.

http://sharpshootr.com/wipeout.htm

Thanks guys.
This is where I am. Rifle went to the gunsmith, will be thoroughly cleaned, barrel will be lightly lapped, and then shot with original Hornady ammo to see if baseline changed and then shot with Barnes ammo. That should give me a better idea of where I am. The rifle is "hunting acceptable" now, but I like them better. Hopefully it will settle down.