The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores thinking about building a 470 Capstick....Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I am tossing the idea around of building a 470 Capstick. Any thoughts on barrel length, forming brass, final weight etc would be appreciated. I would be using a VZ24 action and I have access to a .475, unchambered, untapered Krieger barrel approx 28" as a starting point. Thinking of starting it out octagon and then going to round with the barrel. | ||
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Sounds like a nice rifle waiting to happen.  | |||
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90 looks and only one comment!! I know there must be more opinions out there than that! | |||
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Midwayusa has 470 Capstick brass on sale. Jim | |||
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Hey npd345, just ask if the .470 Capstick would be 'as good as a 45-70 & if an ultra light bullet would help! Oh, and ask if a push feed action might be better than the the VZ24! That will get more responses.  Cheers, Allen It's a Mauser thing, you wouldn't understand. | |||
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I have a .470 Capstick. It weighs 10.75lbs. loaded and scoped. Mine has a 24" barrel. Forming brass takes one step if you start with .458 Lott or basic brass. If you want to neck up .375H&H brass, it will take multiple steps(.375 to .400, .400 to .450, .450 to .474). I bought my forming dies from CH4D. George  | |||
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I am doing the same after several years of bouncing back and forth. Don't know why but it just seems to fit and I will have components ie bullets that will cross over from my .470 nitro. and brass from my Lott. Twist rate is important if you plan to shoot heavy bullets. George is yours 12 or 10? I'm planning on shooting 550 and 600 grain swagged bullets. I am using the cz550 as a platform so I can also use the integral bases for a scope and Leupold Deltapoint. The large white bead seems to be a natural for the front sight. Frank | |||
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Frank, It's a Pac-Nor 1-10". George | |||
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the barrel blank I have access to is a 1-20" Krieger, currently 32" long. I was going to cut it back to 24 or 26" could this barrel/twist rate work for the Capstick? | |||
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Wow, that's a sloooooooow twist! | |||
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Will the 1 in 20 work with the .475 bullet? | |||
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That's the question! This barrel is so marked. I know Barnes lists a 1-18" in their data for the 500gr solid for the 470 nitro. The Capstick should be a couple hundred feet faster. | |||
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Cut it in half and build a couple of .475 Linebaugh pistols. George | |||
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There is enough barrel here to make three or 4 pistols. I spoke to one of the techs at Krieger this morning and they do not recommend using it for the Capstick. Guess I will be shopping for a different barrel and/or build something else! | |||
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While the VZ24 is a good Mauser action, the amount of work your going to have to put into it will be more than buying a CZ550. That action will need the boldface opened up and you'll need to cut up into the lower locking lug to fit a .470 capstick and a new feed ramp. Now you'll need a new mag box, follower, rail work etc. The only advantage and its a good one is that a .470 capstick with a VZ24 action will be a lively gun to carry.-Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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Thanks Rob, What do you think of using the 1-20" twist barrel? I have been told the 1-18" is common with 470 Nitro's. I am wanting to shoot 500gr bullets in the 2200-2400fps range. | |||
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I doubt that small a difference in twist will matter at all. It will result is slightly lower pressures ( almost immesurable though) which probably is a good thing in a VZ24 action designed originally for a 43kpsi cartridge. -Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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Thanks Rob I really appreciate it. shane | |||
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I built a Capstick with a 10 twist and a 16 twist. The faster twist will give you better penetration I have been told. I don't know if a 20 twist will stabalize the 500 grain bullets. I know the 16 twist will. I have 2 Capsticks and they are very accurate with all bullets. Ross | |||
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Just a second concerning twist rate--and strictly terminal performance of "Solids". I know, no doubt, that with a proper designed Flat nose solid, meplat size of 65% across the top of caliber, that twist rate becomes nearly a non issue. One of the biggest reasons to go with a faster twist rate for terminals, is to shoot less than perfect solids, or solids with less than 60% meplat. During terminals, a faster twist will better stabilize, but NOT discount totally, less than proper designed meplat size solids. If you use a proper designed solid, then twist rate becomes far less important to terminal stability. My own 475 B&Ms started with a 1:10s. I had one barrel that was bad, a .474 bullet would NOT even engrave. I am replacing that barrel now, with a 1:16 twist barrel, I use nothing but BBW#13 SOlids 67% meplat, or North Fork SOlids 68% meplat, and I have already tested those in 1:18 twist barrels of several calibers, and zero issues, so I know 1:16 is fine. If I had to choose between 1:16, and 1:18, I would go with 1:16. Use proper bullets, and it becomes a moot point. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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CIP twist for 470 Nitro Express is 1:533mm or 1:21". That is good for the stubby cup & core 500-grain RNSP. A-Square started the 470 Capstick off with a 1:10" twist, for what ever reason Art Alphin liked, when he picked it in 1990. It works well as long as you don't get that twist in an over-sized barrel from the Winchester Custom Shop of yore. McGowen made good 1:10" Twist barrels. I have one on a 470 Capstick M70 that is very accurate, approaching 2400 fps with 500-grainers in a 26" barrel. I also have a 1:16" Pac-Nor on a 470 Mbogo. Accurate as well, with 500-grainers at near 2700 fps, in a 25" barrel. I reckon the 470 NE Merkel has about 1:21" twist, as per CIP, and my twist checker, and by golly that works OK, with 500-grain Woodleigh RNSP as well as 500-grain GSC FN solid, regulating at about 2100 fps, in 23.6" (600mm) barrels. But there are no flies on a 1:10" twist McGowen for 470 Capstick:  | |||
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RIP you have convinced me to go ahead and use the 1 in 20" Krieger barrel. I am little concerned about using the VZ24 action though. I know it can be done and know the gunsmith to do it. I am going to try and find a magnum sized action; CZ,MRC etc for the project. Anyone have one laying around they want to do some horse trading on?
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I've used vZ24 actions to build a number of big bores and they will work. The VZ 24 is properly heat treated and relatively inexpensive. 10 years ago you could buy them at Big Five for $75. However, to fit a cartridge like a 470 Capstick into one takes a lot of grinding and milling in the lower locking lug area that weakens the action. I never had A VZ24 set back the lugs, even with a .458 Ackley I built on one. A big bore built on a M98 results in a light gun thats really fantastic to carry if it's balanced just over the action and just a hair muzzle heavy.. They handle beautifully and swing fast and smoother than anything built on a true magnum maunder action and you'll save a lot of weight. The benefits of true magnum Mauser is that you avoid the concerns about using a M98 for something it was never intended for and you might need the added weight for recoil control. Only you can weigh these factors and make a decision, either way you'll be happy!-Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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save yourself a TON of trouble and build a 470 AccRel on the standard length action .. oh, the case capacity is actually slightly larger opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I had never even heard of the 470 AccRel until now! I did a search on it here on AR and this round looks very impressive. Relatively easy to make the brass and not much change if any to the action. Looks like the VZ24 action is back in the ballgame. I checked with McGowen barrel and they will mill this Krieger barrel to octagon, to my specs, for $132 plus shipping; that is to good of deal to pass up. Looks like its time to get this project started! Shane
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Not long ago, I gunsmithed George's 470 accrel on a M70. I liked the results. Nice cartridge-and better than the 470 Chapstick in my opinion.-Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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I am convinced' it will be a 470 AccRel on the vz24. Going to the gunsmith on Monday to figure out how the barrel will look. Going to do one of the following; Tapered octagon in a barrel 22-26", with or without a raised rib being left machined on the full length of the upper flat for sights. Half octagon, half round 22-26", with or without the raised rib machined on the octagon part and then a barrel band front sight Also need to determine if he wants to thread and chamber the blank before or after I send it to be machined. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores thinking about building a 470 Capstick....
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