While we see heaps of .375's on modified STD length M98's (and M-70's etc), I have only seen one .458 lott (on a Zastava action) and a couple.416 Rems. Most I have seen are on CZ's.

How many of you have a .458 lott on a STD length Mauser 98 action? (what action is it?)

Is it just me, or do they seem uncommon? Surely its only the mag rails that are different to the .375's?

Is bolt thust an issue with the .458 Lott in the modified M98?? It surely doesn't operate at higher than 60-62 000 psi with normal loads chamber pressure?

Feeding problems at all?

/

With current components one can get 95+% of Lott performance out of the Win. Mag. no problems. Why go with a lott with your Mauser. I have such a beast and it is fine. It weighs in at almost 10 lbs. and hits very impressively and out of a short barrel.

quote:

Originally posted by kayaker:


Feeding problems at all?

Yes, of course, unless you buy the right bottom metal and follower and have the metal work done by a specialist in big bores.

It has always been my understanding that converting standard length Mauser actions to the longer magnums was not a good idea.

In Bolt Action Rifles (Frank De Haas) he states that such conversions remove too much metal from the feedramp and, therefore, from the area around the lower locking lug recess. He states that while this is OK if you are shooting .300H&H and .375H&H cartridges, with loads equivalent to the original standard loads, it was not recommended for hotter loads.

Perhaps this is why there are not too many standard length actions in .458 Lott and similar cartridges.

I have a standard length action (Belgian manufacture) that is a .416 Rigby but I have always adhered to this advice and stuck to loads equal to the original loads, which operate at quite low pressures.

I have a 450 ackle on a commerical 98. Feeds and functions fine. Personaly I just load it to duplicate the 458 factory specs a low pressures. Seem to me to be the best of all worlds.

I failed to ad that I fully undertand the issue with a new mag box/bottom metal and 'smith honing for reliability.

What I was wondering is this, excuse my ingnorance! ....

Probably the majority of .375 h&h's are built on STD length actions that are modified, many of these being M-98's and its clones.
Any action opened up to do this will obviously accept the other .375 case based cartridges, like the .416Rem, .458 Lott, .470 capstick etc, with the necessary mag/rail modifications.

y thoughts were why so mnay .375's are in this coniguartion and so few Lotts? Obviously there are far fewer Lotts to begin with!!
Is back/bolt thrust increased dramatically with the Lott over a .375, if they operate at similar pressures??

My desire would be to own one at some point but load the Lott to reach the classic 2150fps wiht a 500gr bullet. I know a .458 win can do this but I would want to do it with a 22" barrel and moderate pressures. This a project i would like to begin and assemble over a few years (my first choice is a .458 AE...but cases/dies etc seems expensive)

Is action strength an issue with the Lott over a .375 due to thrust on the lugs?? I have also shot a .416Rem on a Musgrave Mod90 (generic PF action, like a PF Mod70) that needed to be opened up and the owner seemed very happy with it....

ALF, I do remember you writing that before about James Watt's first rifle.....I guess it is easy enough to do, just by a competant smith, as one would with a .375. You would know, have you seen many .458AE's kicking about in SA with your friends/acquaintances?

A guy posed a photo here a few weeks back of a SABI arms rifle in .458 lott on a VZ-24....

One of the essentials for a dangerous game rifle is that you can stuff rounds into the magazine without having to "hook" them in under the rear reciever bridge. Our local German Gunsmith will not alter an F.N. 458 to Lott because he recons he cannot cut away enough of the rear reciever to be safe. On the Winchester M70's, the action is slightly longer to begin with and he cuts most of the bridge out of the way.

On my H&H .404, which is built on a comercial F.N. mauser action, there are two cut outs in the front recicer ring. One on top and one on the side. The one on top facilitates loading 'eyes off' and the one on the side ensures that when you eject a live round in a hurry it doesn't hang up. Loks a little odd but it works. I have seen many rifles in calibers that were built on actions that are too small give trouble ejecting a live round - especially when the bolt is vigoursly worked. It is not a feature of being a PH, but as a parks officer or citizen hunter one periodically finds oneself with a soft in the chamber and urgently needing the solid in the magazine to appear in the chamber!( like when you are sneaking up on a buff and an ele comes for a look).

If you want a Lott, start with a big enough Action. Charlie Haley uses an interesting trick on his F.N. 458. He had the lead lengthened so that he can seat the bullets out to the full length allowable by the magazine an extra .6mm 77grns S321 for 2300fps with a 465grn mono.

I go with ganyana on this one. Why beat your head against a wall when CZ550's are readily available in the caliber you want? I have a friend who is going to hunt forest buffalo in the spring. Our gunsmith spent four months trying to make a 7Mag new model PF M70 feed 458 Lotts. I finally sold him an old model 70 and the gunsmith put the barrel on and had three rounds in the box and one in the tube up and running in a week. Or, get an MRC acation and build something you will be proud to show folks.

JMHO

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by kayaker:


Is bolt thust an issue with the .458 Lott in the modified M98?? It surely doesn't operate at higher than 60-62 000 psi with normal loads chamber pressure?

Mausers were case hardened (surface hardened) and the lugs tend to set back at high pressure (300 Weatherby, for example). Also, if you open up a Mauser action to fit the Lott case, if too much metal is taken from the action steel that supports the lower front bolt lug, then the action will be ruined.

there's little "major" difference in getting a mauser to feed 300H, 375HH, or 458Lott...

and alot of work to get them to do so correctly.. I thikn I said, in increaasing spend rate, the most expensive common things you can do to a rifle

make it hold loner rounds
make it hold "one more" round
making the stock for the latter.

the cz550 in 458 lott is generally the cost effective solution

jeffe

VZ-24 and a Ruger #1H tropical 458 takeoff barrel shortened to 22", from the breach. I had the barrel and action and a smith that offered to chamber it pretty much gratis.

I still have some more work to do on the mag. I built it mostly to run 458 win mag levels at less pressure.

Were I to do it again, I wouldn't. Too many ways to do it right with a proper length action.

There are certain M98 actions like the VZ24 which will work and far more that will not. I have a nice collection of M98's with set back receiver locking lugs to prove the point. Why would you ever bother with a suspect M98 action when a CZ550 is so readily available? As others have pointed out, even if you start with a good M98, you then need to make or buy the right bottom metal and find someone who can make it feed, open the boltface, re case harden it. etc. Not a practical approach anymore.-Rob

quote:

Also, if you open up a Mauser action to fit the Lott case, if too much metal is taken from the action steel that supports the lower front bolt lug, then the action will be ruined.

My concern exactly! Its does seem like a round about way of doing things. The .458 Win on a STD action with a lengthened freebore makes a huge amount of sense (if you .458 has a STD length action, eg Zastava)

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:

Mausers were case hardened (surface hardened) and the lugs tend to set back at high pressure (300 Weatherby, for example). Also, if you open up a Mauser action to fit the Lott case, if too much metal is taken from the action steel that supports the lower front bolt lug, then the action will be ruined.

Dan
just to clarify...

milsurp mausers are caseharned...

Interarms/Zavasta/Legacy/etc modern mausers are made from the same steels as all modern commerical firearms, basically 4140 or some other CM steel,

jeffe