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Is the CZ 550 rifle an easy conversion to get it in 585 Nyati? According to Gary Reeder the Nyati has broken stocks on all of the rifles he has chambered it for. Is the recoil really that bad! To be great, is to be misunderstood. | ||
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Here we go again. | |||
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I can't answer the question on ease of build, but I will say that the inventor of the round, Ross Seyfried, said it was an extremely uncomfortable round to shoot. From what he writes about, he is not stranger to recoil. I seem to remember that in the article he wrote that when you got to maximum loads, he really had a hard time. As for the stock breakage, he never mentioned anything about it. You might see if Saeed (the sponsor of this forum) has an answer to that as he has a 577 Tyranasaur, which seems to be equal to or surpasses the Nyati around. If you check out the videos on this site you will see many people shooting it and get some idea of the recoil. The gun is also dropped many times during these videos. I would think he would be the one to ask if the stock were prone to breaking. | |||
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The cz and the 585 nyati are a perfect match.You should write robgunbuilder for specs on the PROPER reamer drawings, as the heck/shoulder on ross' design is WRONG and should have been updated. This is a fairly easy conversion. however, this is a pale shadow of the the nyati is a rebated rim, and works pretty well. Rob's nyati is about 11#, scoped, and braked.. it's tough, but not hard, to shoot. hard on stocks? if it doesn't have a recoil lug on the barrel, i bet it would. 750 at 2300 is about all the bertram brass can go, and be reloaded there's no relationship in power with the 577 and 585 ... the 585 is pure bush league in comparison jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Positron, I have been shooting a 585 nyati made by Frank Wells for 8 years now. It weighs 14 lbs. and has no break. I shoot 750 grain A-square bullets at 2500 ft./ sec. This is a pretty stout load and recoil is heavy. I have had no problem with stock cracking. | |||
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jeffeosso Do you have a photo of several of these big wildcats that you would post? A picture of the cartridges, side by side, would be great. Thanks, Landrum. | |||
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Landrum, i reckon I could, might get to it tonight. in the mean time, you can poke around my website. jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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The CZ550 is not a very good choice for the .585 nyati. First of all, the bolt body diamater is too small, leaving only a thin sliver of metal to hold the round in place after the bolt face is opened up to .640" diameter. Second, the magazine box and rails are too narrow to achieve proper staggered feed. You would be better off to start with a Granit Mountain Arms action ($3K or so) or at least an BBK Ultramag ($500 or so). The GMA has a .750" bolt and the Ultramag has a .720" bolt. | |||
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I still go with my reccomendation on one of your other threads. Take a CZ550 in a 458 and convert it to a 458 AR, a 460 weatherby or a 470 Mbogo. | |||
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I threw in the 460, because I know your heart is set on it, Personally I would prefer the AR or Mbogo. Another choice is the 450 Rigby. I hate belts! | |||
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There is no such thing as a simple 585 Nyati if you want a reliable repeating rifle. It's one of those rounds that needs a really good gunsmith that has had the painful learning curve of making a couple of them. If I was after a super power repeater, I'd go with either the 550 magnum or the 600 Overkill. One needs to consider the issue of brass, dies, parent actions and the gunsmithing required to make everything play nicely together. The 585 Nyati at the time of it's development was an interesting concept at proved a super power repeater could be built. It has also over the years shown to have a few shortcomings which have been adressed by other cartridge designs. __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
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If you ahd a 416 rigby CZ, it would be basically a rebarrel to 550 magnum.. and a super human jump in power.. .i would inves more in stock reinforcement than anything else!! jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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The .600OK was specifically designed to resolve all the problems inherent in the 585 NYATI. Both can be built on the CZ550 but it takes a gunsmith with considerable experience. My NYATI uses a Mcmillan express stock and probably has over 500 rds thru it. A bunch of folks on this board have shot it and its really not a bad shooting round. Hits hard, makes a very big hole and rocks you a bit in the process, but is a real pain to get to work. To be honest, do a 500a2 on the CZ550 and you'll be extremely happy. There is simply no better, more reliable, more cost effective combination out there. My advise is to lie down, take a rest and wait for all 585 NYATI ideas to go away.-Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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I have a .585 Nyati as does my mate, our smith foolowed Robs instructions for the neck and they work fine awsome power and a bit of fun when your in the mood | |||
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here ya go opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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and here's proof of Rob's Nyati opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Beautiful bullet mushrooming. Woodleigh? | |||
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Yep, woody .585 750 gr... Rob might remember retained weight, but it's over 95% opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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But why show just brass and bullets? opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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jeffeosso, Why do you say the 585 nyati is a pale comparison, to the 500? I shoot my 3" 585 with bertram brass and get a 750 grain bullet to go 2500 ft./ sec out of a 24" barrel. Thats about 10,300 ft./lbs. I consider that a pretty powerful laod? | |||
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Big D, because the 3" isn't an nyati, it's not what ross designed, and you can't get an nyati to go 2500..., 2350 MAX and that's MAX loads.. 2300 is a good working load.. the 550 magnum , not the 500 anything, can easily take the 700gr to 2400, and I bet closer to 2450, at the same pressure as you 2500 3" load power wise 600ok 577 trex 550 magnum 585 nyati (ross' design) 550 express way down the list any 500, loaded to the same pressures jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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jeffeoso, I am not going to get into a pissing match with you, I guess we will just have to disagree on the velocity my rifle will shoot at. I realize the original cartridge was 2 3/4 ". I thought the 3" was also a version of the nyati. I geuss technically my gun is a 585 wells magnum. It is 3" and the shoulder is actually moved forward about 1/4" over the true nyati. Maybe this is where I get the difference in velocities and can push it to 2500ft./sec. Didn't mean to start an arguement. | |||
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Your earlier post referred to the 585 as a pale comparison to the 500. | |||
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The 3 inch version of the NYATI still has the wrong neck dimensions and uses bertram crap brass. Unless they changed things. I discussed this with WELLS at SCI a few years ago while I was looking for BIG Actions for the .600 Ok 1 and they acknowledged the problems and loved the .600 Ok concept. I imagine Horneber could be persuaded to make some decent brass in the 3 inch Nyati version. I still have a few hundred cases of the 2.85 inch stuff from him. It should be a formidable cartridge and should drive a 750 gr bullet to 2500 plus fps. The 600ok1 of course will easily drive a 900 gr bullet to 2400 plus fps. I'm sure you could get 2500 if you OD'd on Ibuprofen first and practiced counter torque training at the gym. Penetration is phenominal and with softpoints yoiur talking Hydraulic stops( imagine driving a Beer Can through something soft very quickly) on animals! Assuming you can hold on to it. I had so many problems with the Nyati and so have countless others that the .600ok was created. END OF PROBLEMS. Im not saying the .585 Nyati doesnt work as the pics prove, just that its not easy to get it to work. Your talking a $4K gun when all is said and done.-ROB Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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Rob, My 585 does weigh 14 lbs., which does cut down on recoil some. I have a 600 OK comming by the end of August, and am looking very forward to shooting it. I geuss Frank Wells must have done somthing right, because I have been lucky, and haven't had any problems with mine. thanks for the info | |||
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bigdoggy 700- Nothing a correct neck reamer and good Horneber brass won't fix. I never could get the Bertram stuff to extract from my gun . Stuck solid in the gun at anything over 2300fps. My chamber was near perfect also. A pity to have to 400 grit polish it. I also found the Bertram brass varied in neck thickness from .008 to .015 on each case. I had to force it over a mandrel on my Lathe and turn it down to .008 before it would chamber a loaded round with a minimal clearance of .003. Anything less is risking your life! I believe the .577 NE brass Seyfried originally used had very thin (.007) necks and his chamber dimensions are consistent with this theory. Sterling davenport built the Nyatis for Ross and I have had the pleasure of examining the first ever NYATI in person. The original brass was neck turned also. Not only is the Bertram Brass soft as hell, but the neck dimensions vary from case to case and lot to lot. Horneber is far more consistent and works most of the time. Unfortunately, reaming the neck does effect acuuracy a bit. No one makes a correctly dimensioned reamer for the .585 NYATI as far as I know. Wells just ran the Seyfried reamer in .15 inches further versus their headspace guage. Maybe your chamber is loose enough so you have not experienced the problem all the rest of us have had. In a DGR like this egg shaped chambers may actually solve some problems.-Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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Rob, When I shoot hot loads, with A square solids, the brass is somewhat tight, but I have never had a problem with the bolt extracting it. I will certainly agree with you that Bertram brass is soft and can be very inconsistant. I don't think my chamber is all that loose. However, I am not a gunsmith, and don't claim to be.I think the stuff you and Hubble are doing is incredible, with the 12FH and all the big bore things you play with. | |||
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OK; I may be slow, or maybe it is a language thing......but what exactly IS the problem with the Nyati? Is the original neck to tight? Shoulder angle wrong? or.....? Thanks, Bent Fossdal Reiso 5685 Uggdal Norway | |||
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Well, Dang, you are RIGHT... i meant 550 magnum. I don't think I should have typed that post when I did (laying out the power), as I had been asleep and the wife's yapyap dog (yorkie 3.2#) began being barkie.. woke me up!! Didn't meant to be grouchy... Though comparing yours, with the full length case, to the 585 nyati is exactly like comparing a 30-06 ackley to the 308, they just aren't the same thing Your's, btw, sounds FAR closer to the 577 t-rex " I geuss technically my gun is a 585 wells magnum. It is 3" and the shoulder is actually moved forward about 1/4" over the true nyati. No reason to agree to disagree, as we are saying the same thing, just I had a BIG typo, which I'll fixm and you have a vastly larger, and superior, case than the 2.85 nyati... Thanks for pointing that out. As Rob says, the bertram brass sticks at 2300, in the 2.85", which tells me that's a TOP load... Funny enough, I am using bertram brass on another project, and dropped a loaded round from about knee high... it hit the shoulder and deformed it BADLY... I've dropped empty 577/500 brass and had to resize to get the necks opened. So, you've got a wicked cool 585 wells or 585 nyati 3"... Awesome!!! I have been close to building one several times, each time I called rob and he talked me down from it... So I built 550s and 500s and 470s instead!! Bent, The nyati has two real case problems, not to mention 3 different rim diameters, being rebated, and the most common brass is Bertram (soft) The problems 1: neck/shoulder angle is wrong most of the time, using factory brass, as it's a little thicker than turned 577 3" (see rob's post) 2: bertram brass is inconsistant and soft. jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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jeffeoso, Sounds like we are on the same page, I should have been more clear on what cartridge I was shooting to start with. | |||
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Big D, no worries. I think we are both enthusiastic and big bore fans!! some might say fanatics!! Just as a note, please say what you are loading.. as if someone asked for nyati loads, your would, well, overflow the case !!! do you have a 585 wells? do you need more brass? I can hook you up with jamison, i think jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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The problem with the NYATI is the Seyfried/ JGS/Manson reamer neck dimensions produce a chamber that will usually not allow a bullet seated in a Bertram case to chamber. That is a big problem. The Bertram brass is so inconsistent in thickness that if you try and neck turn it on a mandrel as I've described, half the time you cut through the case. At $3 a case this is bad news. I also won't shoot a gun with this much power without knowing that there is at least .003 clearance ( I prefer .005) between the neck of the cartridge and the neck of the chamber. Thus, you either need to have a new reamer made or use a custom neck reamer to fix the problem. I have done both and the RLG NYATI reamer( corrected dimensions) is by far the better choice. The way I chamber my barrels usually results in very tight uniform chambers and this just compounds the basic NYATI flaw. Now if I only did chambering with a drill press like TC does, it would probably be ok. -Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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Jeffe, Rob, Thanks! Bent Fossdal Reiso 5685 Uggdal Norway | |||
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The reamer is too small in the neck area, so an additional 0.614" neck reamer is needed to get rounds to chamber. | |||
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jeffeoso, I have enough brass for my 585 wells for now. If I need more I will contact you. thanks | |||
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