A long time back I was starting this project and posted a few pictures and some of you seemed intrested. Since this is not a paying job as it is my rifle work has gone slow. The rifle is now regulated and hitting 1" apart and even height at fifty yards. Regulating took a bit of time and quite a few rounds. I now have to rust blue the thing and do the checkering and then hunt deer with it this fall as it will be 2007 (If all goes well) before I can go back to Africa and try it on buff. By the way the stock is Black Thorn if I remember correctly. It was given to me by a South African costom gun maker I met on my first trip.


In the first picture I have just fired the rifle during regulation and the second shows the Blackthorn stock shaped but with out any finish. With finish the color is simular to English .

Judson,

What did you start with, did you build this from scratch. Interesting piece of wood also. Fill me if you do not mind. Good work, good post also.

Thanks for the update -- I would love to see some more pictures.

Very impressive! Please give us details of barrels and action.

I started the project with a French 16 ga. action it had all the features for a rifle. Double under lugs a hidden third fastener and small diameter firing pins. The mono block was all one piece so the new barrels were fitted to this. The quater rib, sights, extractor, front sight and the stock and forearm I made. I have more pictures of the rifle but have to get them developed, ya I know I should get a digital.
In this picture the stock blank has been wetted down with mineral spirits and you can get an idea of what the wood would look like with finish.

that is really nice, how long have you been working on it.

Never heard of that type of wood, very nice.

Looking very nice. I will be looking forward to seeing it completly finished.

Hog Killer

WOW!!
this is fantastic.. and gives mre more hope on my double project.

Billy, blackthorn is related to hawthorn, which is pretty darn dense and, when thin, flexible, with a slow growth...

I hadn't seen ANY thorn big enough to make a stock from...



NICE
Your regulation is where I would call it DONE, as I bet the c to c on the firing pins is about 1.065 or less

jeffe

I, sir, am in awe of your talents! Beautiful work! I have a spare Cogswell 12 ga. "Avant Tout" box lock, is it viable for conversion and how much would something like this cost? If you don't mind my asking! Again, outstanding work!

Judson

That is very nice. I can't wait for the finished product. BTW, whatinhellisthatyou're standing on?

The Blackthorn stock blank is from Africa I am not sure that is the proper name for the tree but that is what the Gunsmith over there called it.
475, I am standing on a couple of cinder blocks so I can get the right height at my improvised "standing bench" The rifle is pleasant to shoot (does not hurt) but sitting at the bench might be a bit much.
As for the "Avant Tout" I would have to see the gun and check a few things out such as does it have double under lugs, a third fastener of some kind. If I am right, I think that action has a Greener style cross bolt which would be good. I also need the origional proof mark in order to find at what pressure the gun was origionally proofed. You also did not mention if you were planing to use the origional wood or not. I guess to give you a price I need more info, if you would like give me a call and lets talk over the details. 207-938-3595

In this picture I am working on the regulation, in this case the barrels have to come togther a bit and moved a few thousands counter clock wise. When you start cooking guns with a torch to get them shooting right people take notice, however Aron was a bit hesitant about me helping him with the sighting in of his .375 until I put the torch away!

Now that's what I call a Gun Project!

The un finished rilfe gives us a very good idea of what it would look like fully finished. Stunning is the only word that comes to my mind.

Great job
Harris

I have rust blued the barrels and will give them a few more coats as I found some solder I missed when doing the clean up. I will have to go up on my loads a bit as I am getting 2053 for velosity and should be in the 2150 range. This should tighten up the groups a bit which will be great but I can not complain as at present the rifle is shooting under 2" at fifty yards and this includes my i.5" wobble factor.
I have to get some more pictures developed and when I get them back I will post them if you like.

Judson,
I am nearly the hacking and threading part of mine....

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by Judson:
but I can not complain as at present the rifle is shooting under 2" at fifty yards and this includes my i.5" wobble factor.

Sounds excellent to me.

quote:

I have to get some more pictures developed and when I get them back I will post them if you like.

Please do!

Judson
What loads are you shooting in your No2.
My British 450 No2 is regulated for 75 grains of Cordite, the Tropical load, regular load being 80 grains. My rifle shoots very good with Bertram Brass, Federal Magnum primers and 88 grains of RL 15, with filler.
480 Woodleigh Softs and Solids, 500 grain Hornady Softs and OLD steel jacketed Solids, and the 500 Swift A Frame all shoot to the same group at 100 yards. I use 81 grains of IMR 3031, with filler, and 350 gr Hornady RN for deer and wild pigs.
My rifle shoots good with the heavy bullets and IMR 3031, and IMR 4831, but the RL 15 loads show less pressure.
The RL 15 loads have proven their worth on 2 buff and 3 elephant.

N E 450 # 2, I am loading 100 grains of IMR 4831 into Huntington brass. I am using a foam filler and Federal 215 Match Magnum primers and a 480 grain bullet. My rifle has 26" barrels and I am getting 2053 feet per second though according to what I have read I should get around 2150 fps so I may try going up a grain or two or trying 97 grains of RL 15
I worked my loads up based on an 80 grain cordite load. You gave me some loading info several months ago and thank you it was very helpful. By the way if you do not have it the conversion factor for RL-15 is 1.19 X the cordite load. Hay, how about posting a picture of your .450? Oh yes, the new pictures are being developed.

In my rifle 100 mgrains of IMR 4831 with filler, regulates very good.
Start with 86 gr of RL 15, 95 grains was too much for my rifle. I had the conversion factor, thanks.
Do not forget even in the early 1900's there was a little "blue sky" in some of the velocity figures.

Are you saying I should leave well enough alone? I think you know more about loading for the .450 then I do after all I am only 100 feet per second down which is no big deal. I think too many get carried away with the chronograph and double rifles were never built to give the ultimate in velosity. By the way have you done any articles on loading for the doubles you seem to have lots of knowledge on the subject?

Judson, Try my RL 15 88 grain load with 480 grain bullets and see how that shoots in your rifle. It seems to have lower pressure than 100gr of IMR 4831.
I think 2053fps will work just fine on elephant and buff as I think my 88 gr load is in that ball park.
MY PH was VERY impressed with the results of my 450 No2.
I am very happy with my 450 No2 and I thank George Caswell of Champlin Arms for steering me in that direction. After 7+ years of shooting and hunting with that rifle, and its results on 2 buff and 3 elephant, as well on deer wild pigs and a few coyotes I do not know if there is a better double rifle calibre on the planet.
The rifle itself is excellent placing 350, 480 and 500 grain bullets in the same group to at least 200 yards. It shoots good on rocks to 300, but I have not tested it on paper at that distance... why? I would not shoot game that far with iron sights.
The double can do it... it is the flesh that is weak.
I just do not believe in "plinking" at game animals....

Plus your brass will last longer, and your rifle will stay on the face longer.
I have a few thousand rounds through my 450 No2 and it has not loosened up at all.

Judson,
Besure and try some 350 gr Hornady RN bullets in your No2. It is a great load for deer, pigs black bear etc.
My rifle shoots that bullet with 81 grains of IMR 3031 into the 480/500 grain bullet group at 100 yards. Velocity is @ 2330 fps.
Recoil is less than the 480/500 grain loads.

I will try that load and several of the others you mentioned. I am all most done with the rust blueing and will have to do the checkering then the rifle will be done!!!! I really look forward to building another and the guy I hunted with in 2004 wants me to build a .450 # 2 for him so this is great!!!!

The rust bluing of the barrels for the .450 is almost done along with the small parts. The stock will need two or three more coats of finish and a checkering job. I am trying to decide if I want to do a piont pattern or a Flur de lis fill in checkering pattern, what do you people think would be more approprate? I am probably going to go with 22 lines per inch this will give good grip but still be fine enough to look nice. I will keep you guys informed.
I am also thinking a head to building another double, this time in the 450 # 2s big brother the .475 # 2 what do you know about this cartridge?

I'd do a point pattern, like the traditional English & Continental doubles of yore. The 475#2 is fairly similar to the 450#2, I'd go with a 500.