is a 416 Rem (or Rigby) too redundant? Are these too close in performance to need one of each?

It wasn't for me, but for sure its not a huge difference. I did it mainly to get the heavier bullet weights of the .416. The upside is that either one can fill in for the other.

The next practical step up would probably be a .458 of some flavor but if you are like me & don't like the recoil, a .416something does give a noticeable increase in thump on heavier game/DG.

I think I might have bought my 416 Rem before my 375 H&H. Or was it the other way around. Anyway I have both zeroed at 150 yds

I have a 375 H&H Mag. and a 458 Lott and STILL think I need a 416 Rigby!

Why not a 375 H&H with 270 gr. Northforks at 2750 for plains game and buff in a pinch and a 416 with 400 grainers at 2400 for buff and up. I think that would be a perfect African combo.

From what I've read (I have no first hand experience shooting DG) and the other sources I've looked into, the .375 is a great Plains game and big game rifle that will double as a DG rifle.......and the 416 is a good DG cartridge that can double as a plains game round.

Then I ask myself if I can actually shoot the 500 grainers from the 45 cals......and I come back to the 416 as the biggest I want to have.

IMO there is a big difference in the two. I wouldn't hesitate to go after any of the DG with the 416. It's a step up from the adequate .375 H&H and that's enough for me.

I have a custom Remmy coming home soon as a .358 STA. Logical next step seemed to be a .458 Winny, so I bought one, another stainless Remmy. Now I am thinking a .416 Taylor would be dandy. Why? Because I want one!

I like the 416 rem mag alot better than the 375 H&H.The 375 H&H is not that more powerful than the 338 win mag.Its almost to much overlap to have those two.Its better to have a 338 win mag and a 416 rem mag.With those two you can shoot any big game in the world.

If the truth be known, a man should have one each:
300H&H............just because
375 H&H, mine came as an improved on a 98 action.
416 Rigby or Remington, the only advantage of the Rigby is the ability to boost MV to 2700fps (see Wby)
458 Lott, or 450 Rigby " " " "
500/416 Rigby Cylindrical rimless!...........got one under construction as we speak
500 NE 3" in a Holland best grade
550 Magnum
577 NE 3"............just because

I may have missed something here, but I am ready to die happy the day I finish the list. PLUS six weeks in Africa to test the last seven on Cape Buffalo and Elephant

Rich

I have a 375 that I love to carry for anything I hunt, and I will never get to hunt Africa. I recently bought a CZ 550 Safari Magnum, and enjoy shooting it. I am fixing to retire from my job of slightly over 24 years, and my wife is allowing me to buy a new toy. I went in and looked at it yesterday. A CZ 550, in the American version, in 416 Rigby. You can never have enough toys. JMO

I don't think that they are redundant. There is a big difference in bullet weight and energy between the two.

When I go to Zimbabwe this Sept I will be taking my .416 Rem for buffalo and elephant and my 375 H&H for leopard/plainsgame and back up.

While I agree with dgr416 that a .338/.416 combo is great for buffalo and plainsgame, I worry about carrying a .338 in an area with dangerous game around. You just never know what you will stumble upon and if run into trouble the .375 is a better choice.

Doug

I was always taught that you tried to have the next rifle's low point (ME & FPS) start at the low end of where your last rifle ended...ride that to the top of it's performance level and so on.
Where one plays out the next one starts.
Best thing is..just buy any you have the hots for. No way in hell you can own too many toys!

I have passed on a bunch of 375 H&H just because I have so much tied up in the 416 Rem mag.I thought of a 416 Weatherby but its not worth the extra recoil or cost in the rifle for the extra 300 fps.I tried to trim my main hunting rifles down to the .338 caliber and the .416.That cuts down cost and reloading time.Its hard to even use a under 338 caliber for me these days after deer hunting 20 years with the 338 win mag.I decided on the 416 after I had a bunch of bears one night and the 338 win mag seemed even small.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:
I have a 375 H&H Mag. and a 458 Lott and STILL think I need a 416 Rigby!

Grumulkin,
Thats right, a man can't have too many rifles.

In addition to my 375 H&H, I also own a 9,3 X 62, a 416 Rigby and 404 Jeffery. In my opinion redundancy is when you have two rifles in the same caliber.

.375 H&H Mag BA + .450 Double

since when is it not practical to own as many guns as are required to satisfy one's hunger to get an aresonal large enough to defend one's self in case of an emergency.

I think one ought to augment their rifle collection to their heart's content. If you are only going to have one rifle though the 375 is as good as any.

Hell I like being redundant! I have four .375's, a 416 Rigby, .416 Remington, .458 Lott and of course, a 9.3x62. Also have had a .458 Winchester and a .470 Capstick. What's life without choices?

Given restrictions on how many guns can be taken to some African countries these days, it does change the consideration somewhat.

Think the 416 or the 458 would do well. The 375 takes care of all plains game and can double in a pinch for buffalo. The 416 or 458 does provide a noticable improvement on buffalo.

Hammer

I could hunt anything from titmouse to mastadon with what I have in the vault now! However, that fact doesn't hender my desire for something I see in the shop! I say buy what you want, life's short, and there are no luggage racks on a hearse!

.416 Remi is probably most versatile heavy tropical game cartridge out there, but its recoil is too much for me. It's too much caliber for any game on North American continent. The .404J and .416 Rigby are more costly to shoot, and ammo can be PITA to find.
The .375H&H is inherently more accurate cartridge, prettier looking too!

I usually shoot 76 grs of reloader 15 behind a 350 gr speer mag tip bullet for 2400 fps with my 416.Its a load that I can practice alot with my 416 rem mag with out too much recoil.I do shoot about 20 full house loads at a time.I have shot over 125 of the reduced loads in a day.

The short answer is, why do you need a reason to own another caliber ?!??!? LOL

The 416s are quite a bit more in recoil and in "power" than a 375, though I doubt there's enough difference that the game would go a step further with good bullets and well placed shots.

this from the guy with the 416, 458, and 470ARs, 500 jeffe, 550 express, and a pair of 58 caliber double front stuffers.

The remington is a neat round.. the AR has more capacity and fits in a standard length action


However, the true STEP from a 375 is the 458 Lott, or 458 AR... 500gr at 2300 for the lott with a 24" barrel.. and proven 2350 with 500gr in a TWENTY ONE inch barrel with the AR

and the 458 is the cheapest of all the big bores to feed

jeffe

If I absolutly have to carry two rifles to africa I would take my 338 Win and 416 rem mag. I am one of those who feel the 375 H&H is neither fish nor fowl(and I own three of them) and for thick skinned game much prefer a 416. For lesser game including the Eland and leopard a 338 Win mag is plenty. I personally wouldn't hesitate to hunt lion on bait with a 338 where legal but would use the 416 just in case. I have shot some African game with the 375 but haven,t found it more or less effective then the 338 or 9.3X62 for that matter. I just have a preference for the 338 or 9.3X62 and find no need to carry the 375. I think the popularity of the 375 H&H is nostalgia and of course it does work albeit no better then the 338, 358 Norma, 9.3s. cartriges.

I have 5 375's so I rather like them but my NEXT up is a 416Rigby (I have 2 of them) which I like real well. I don't find it at all unpleasant to shoot. I have a 470 dbl but the last trip I took a 416Rigby and a 7x57 and took a nice Ele and lots of plains game.I find that to be a good combination to cover EVERYTHING fairly well.

Thanks for the input. I've got a 375 in the works, but I've been wanting a 416 for a long time now. I was just trying to figure out if having a 416 Rem built was going to be worth the cost, i.e. any big advantage over the 375. I think there will be, so I'll have to get the details worked out on that one.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:
I have a 375 H&H Mag. and a 458 Lott and STILL think I need a 416 Rigby!

You DO!!!

I have one of each .375 H&H and 416 Rem. Love them both. One backs up the other interchangeably.

I sold my beautiful 375 last winter. Had withdrawals as the guy backed up the drive. Guess whats almost done now? FN Belgium, DS triggers and a wild piece of wood!!! DUH! Another 375 H&H. Will I ever get back to africa to use it? Not likely! But Oh WELL!

Aloha, Mark

quote:

Originally posted by the_captain:
is a 416 Rem (or Rigby) too redundant? Are these too close in performance to need one of each?

They are not redundant, but I would encourage you to look at a true big bore such as a 458 Lott or 505 Gibbs. The Lott is cheap to shoot and plenty powerful, but the Gibbs will satisfy the entirety of your craving for recoil.

I would skip the 416 and go for a 458wm or 458 Lott. (Really, I would go with a 450NE DR, given the choice.)

When it is time to go I would take the 375H&H and the 458?. I would not go on a DG hunt with only one DG capable rifle. This is where the 375H&H, which is neither fish nor fowl, but, as a result, is incredibly versitile, really shines, imo.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by the_captain:
is a 416 Rem (or Rigby) too redundant? Are these too close in performance to need one of each?

A 416 is not redundant. If you have a 416 in exactly the same rifle then you can use the 375 to practice with and use the 416 with its greater recoil for the circumstances that warrant it.

A 375 is fine for most anything up to elephant, but a 416 is just that more effective. Unless you are an experienced shot on DG, a bigger gun can be worthwhile insurance in stopping, turning, or just knocking the animal down, whether any of the shots are eventually lethal or not.

Both the 375 and 416 are famous for their penetration. Penetration is all that is needed for an expert shot but short of that the 416 is just more horsepower if things go wrong.

IMHO, there is a perfect four rifle battery (boltguns) for hunting the world. Actually, if I had just one rifle...it would be the....375 Holland in an improved version. Two or more makes it a nice niche-filling group of choices: reload or strictly factory ammunition? All boltguns, or a double in DGR 500 3" NE?
1. My 98 in 300H&H
2. ditto in the 375 Improved.
3. 458 Lott, since I already have a Manchester Whitworth rechambered from 458WM
4. my ego speaketh here, 510 Kayser Express, a 416 Rigby cylindrical FL case necked down to 50 caliber; mine on a Wisner metalled M1934 Remington (enfield).

Rich

Will, wouldn't practising with a 375 be redundant? Just buy hard cast 416 bullets and shoot a 350gr at 2250fps and shoot for pennies on the dollar of jacketed 375. If you alrdady have a 375, just go big with a Lott or a 500.

Rich

I'd say a lott, its cheep to shoot. Its also builder friendly, pretty easy to get one put together.

Now with that said, CZ 550 in 416 rigby restocked and slicked up is fine as frog hair.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Will, wouldn't practising with a 375 be redundant? Just buy hard cast 416 bullets and shoot a 350gr at 2250fps and shoot for pennies on the dollar of jacketed 375. If you alrdady have a 375, just go big with a Lott or a 500.

Rich

Just depends on who is shooting it, and hunting with it. If you consider the 375 a light rifle, go up to whatever you want.

But how many guys can whip off 5 or 6 full load Lotts and not flinch? There is a lot of talk about the Lott but if you only shoot reduced loads all the time, it ain't a Lott!

And how do know how you are going to react if only reduced loads are used when the full loads are needed?

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
They are not redundant, but I would encourage you to look at a true big bore such as a 458 Lott or 505 Gibbs. The Lott is cheap to shoot and plenty powerful, but the Gibbs will satisfy the entirety of your craving for recoil.

Eventually, I will move to a real big bore At this point, I believe it is going to be the 500 A2; platform undecided, but leaning towards a reworked CZ 416 Rigby. It seems to be a very logical way to get that kind of power and personal abuse.

I like the 416 Rem (and 375 for that matter)over the Lott/Capstick/whatever, just because I could actually use it for things like elk, etc and not give up much over a 30-06 kind of trajectory. Longer shots will be easier with these than any bigger bores based on this case, IMHO. Hey, it's my mental game...

ISS: did you have your 375 Mauser built or buy it that way. I have a super nice Husky action I'd like to have lengthened, but cost is a factor. Want to do a full length 7 mm wildcat. Can do it on a Sako I just found, but really like the Husky - its a beautiful action. If I can't do the 7 Mashburn on that one within reason, will probably make a big bore out of it - maybe a 375 Taylor, but prefer something even bigger - 404/425.

The 458's arent' that tough to shoot (458 Win) and they do have some stomp down power. I'll never make it to Africa, but the big ones are fun!

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
IMHO, there is a perfect four rifle battery (boltguns) for hunting the world. Actually, if I had just one rifle...it would be the....375 Holland in an improved version. Two or more makes it a nice niche-filling group of choices: reload or strictly factory ammunition? All boltguns, or a double in DGR 500 3" NE?
1. My 98 in 300H&H
2. ditto in the 375 Improved.
3. 458 Lott, since I already have a Manchester Whitworth rechambered from 458WM
4. my ego speaketh here, 510 Kayser Express, a 416 Rigby cylindrical FL case necked down to 50 caliber; mine on a Wisner metalled M1934 Remington (enfield).

Rich