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MOnte Calro stocks, Corbon fiber barrels, Thumbhole stocks, "enthusiastic" reloading, overloaded leverguns, and faster than required twist all have their fans.... and so do th RUMs, WSMs, WSSM, and SAUM do too.... jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Andy, Art Alphin and Norbert say there is.  | |||
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HH, Rigby,Jeffery, Scheuler, hoffman, Howell, Westley Richsards, Ackley, O'Conner, and 100,000 other's disagree. Hmm, so, an arrow has nil tiwst, yet penetrates like mad.... could it be more of shape, construction, and velocity than twist? opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Guys break it up for a sec. I don't post much anymore but I appear to have lost something that some of the original crew here might be able to help with. That being Mitch Carter, or contact details for him anyway.Last we spoke was May this year, but now both his emails are disconnected. Anyone know how to contact him? Karl | |||
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Jeffe, get out to the archery range and watch those arrows spin in flight. The cool thing, you can adjust twist rate by varying the angle of the fletch. Rich | |||
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I guess that's no one then.His health was poor the last we spoke which is why I hoped someone else had current contact.Well I'm outta here again. Carry on. Karl. | |||
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Why do you attempt to make this personal? Pretty tiresome, even for my 2 year old nephew. Again, you make too many assumptions.. Dan, How's your gunsmithing? When is the last time you MADE (not ordered) a rifle? Go look at the twist poll, and, well, since you quote Andy, you must accept some form of plywood testing is accurate enough for you to use as facts. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Jeff, it became personal when you made up things I did not say about twist and penetration and then pretended to quote me for just the opposite of what I said. It's time for you to put up or shut up. Do you want to find out what happens in the real world shooting elephants? If not, then please do not address any more posts to me about twist as it does not appear you have any knowledge to contribute. | |||
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No I don't. | |||
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opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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LMAO Dan, you have been presented with an alternative to your "test" that, by your own statements, results in a ~40% loss of bullets. 60% is in F in most schools. Made things up? Hardly.. How many rifles have YOU built to test twist and pressure? ZERO? How many weeks and hundreds of rounds, have you spent load testing across three barrels with different twists? ZERO... So, your "twist" expereince is a single shooting session, with a twist rate you, yourself, say is ineffective. Making things up? You want to repeat a test that you are certain has poor methodology, that would cost tens of thousands to repeat, and is invalid is testing methods? So, you presented your "opinion" on test, without a single fact, otehr than art's say so, but disregard anything but shooting dead animals to prove it's' results on live animals. You have been presented with a far and reasonable, verifiable test. Should you be unwilling to participate in this test, it will probably proceed without you. your choice is clear, particpate and be part of the solution, or not. Recall that whelen is somewhat of an expert in the matter. jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Dan, Just wanted to refresh your memory on your previous statements, especially in regard to Andy and shooting wood panels. Do you support shooting wood, like Dave, or Not? Just a clear statement of your opinions, as it seems to be difficult to surmise from your posts. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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No I don't, yes you did, no I did not, oh yes you did so...waaah! waaah! COME ON you two sound like a couple of 6 year olds. Surley this forum has not been reduced to this crap!! | |||
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Big D, there is some "Growth", though not all parties are interested. You really haven't been around long enough to see the string of "myths" busted around here.. For example - a bullet MUST travel 25 + yards to "go to sleep" ... So dave did an impact study, with all the bullets at the same speed on impact, from ~0 to 150 yards... and they all stuck in the same board!! Though some good will come out of the penetration testing... https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4711043/m/325104665 jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Jeffe and 500 grains...ya gott love em both! Opinionated...heck yes! Shy about voicing and defending those opinions? Gosh sakes NO!! 500Grains, you have just GOT to show for the Jeffe twist party. Last one (twist party) I went to I met this wonderful girl, and oh my!!! Them Texican girls is awful purty! Don't like plywood? Make one of my recovery boxes instead. Heck, I'll even pick you up in the Dodge and we can split expenses down and back. Rich | |||
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Jeff, May I suggest that you have your intellect do some pushups so that you will be better prepared for these discussions? You seem to see everything in absolute terms which is not what real life is all about. Plywood tests give you SOME information, but not reliable information, because elephants and buffalo are not made of wood. Instead they are made of about 80% water. So do not expect your plywood tests to be an effective predictor of how twist rates will compare in an animal. You can confirm the same with Andy. Am I opposed to some information? No. However I would prefer a more realistic test, such as shooting elephant bodies. That will tell you more about how the twist rates compare in flesh then a plywood test. But I note that you have run away from the concept of actually shooting animals with your 1:18 twist compared to 1:10. Why hide from the real world? Not wanting the bad news?
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no, I see everything in memasurable terms, or at least measured tendencies Without a doubt, and by your statements, unpredictiable in measurable terms, from shot to shot Andy stated that he saw better penetration with a faster twist rate. Inaccruate, as usual. I have no issue with you going about shooting some dead animals, with your own stated unrepeatable results. Have at it. The same question applies to yourself. Why won't your lay out repeatable measurable results and field test them Dan, your own statements are that wood is a test, and shooting animals is not consistant from shot to shot. You are welcome to join and/or perform your own tests. Though you tend to raise specters of gloom if everyone doesn't follow your way... Nothing prevents you from spending your own money (or MAKING a rifle) and going to shoot some carcases.. have at it, if that's what you want to do. I'll spend MY money on trying a test that can be repeated anywhere in the world. You go do what you think is right.. it's your choice, after all jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Andy's comments on shooting plywood (La Grange Stop Box) and effects of twist on penetration
Dan, so, for awhile, would you mind dropping the personal insults, inferences and slurs, and concentrate on a factual discussion. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Jeff, I think you have misunderstood at least 80% of what I have written. Some of it you have intentionally misunderstood/lied about and the remainder you have simply failed to comprehend. If I am to tutor you any further, you will have to pay tuition in advance. However I must give you fair warning that your inability to understand what you read or to learn from it will probably make your tuition payments a waste of money. | |||
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Best quote by a sometimes gunwriter, ever
And you got paid up much for the first elephant shooting article, and expect to make how much from the second? opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I get paid nothing for articles. In fact, if they offered I would turn it down because that would turn it from a hobby into work. All costs of the daily rate, trophy fees, airfare, ground transport, tips, guns, bullets, etc. are entirely out of my own pocket. The bullets I test are bullets I paid for. None of it is free. In fact I even pay for my own magazine subscription. Translation: Jeffe is off base again. And again. Again. | |||
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Dan, I posted that I had never seen a truer statement by a gunwriter, and asked you a question. The answer to the question is "zero and zero"... but again with the baseless personal attacks. I guess you feel that is effective. At least i didn't yet again get "Accused" of misquoting you.. by using a direct quote, just like every other time Oh well, will you be joining on the plywood shoot or not? jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I have no problem learning things on this forum. I ennjoy different opinions and have voiced mine on several occasions, never been the shy type either. I just think it could be doen without all of the arguing.....but, I have been wrong before, SOOO....I will be like big John the ref on the ultimate fight championship fights. ARE YOU READY, ARE YOU READY, LETS GET IT ON!!! Have at it boys, I along with the rest of the forum will sit back and watch you two tear each other up. Can't say I did not try. | |||
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Sorry Jeff, but due to the grammatical problems in your question, it read like a statement. | |||
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dan, i know, and i am proud of you for struggling through and eventually understanding the questions well enough to answer. that's really good work, on your part. i understand this can be a difficult process, and i just wanted to say, thanks, i accept your appology in the matter. nice to see you behaving as an adult have a great morning. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Hello, I talked to Hawk bullets about the .585 900 grain bullets and they told me they would be able to do it. For a round nose bullet with a 0.035" thick jacket, it would be $69.95 for a box of 50 bullets. Minimum order is 3 boxes. If anyone is interested PM me and maybe we can synchronize our orders. | |||
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Kenneth, Hawk bullets are probably more than good enough for american game. These will be something like shooting a pure lead bullet wrapped in a copper "patch"... andy makes a good bullet, though ask yourself if you mean this to be a DGR round, or a plinker. you could contact richie corbin and ask who's got a set of his dies in .585, and ask those people if they can make you a 900gr .585 bonded with a .035 c220 jacket. or just post this bullet making. best of luck jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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FWIW Barnes did a custom run of bullets in 458 for us recently They are very easy to work with If you guys want a big solid, give Barnes a call and see if they can make it work | |||
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