Now that Hornady/Ruger has made the 416 Ruger legit....and Hornady is making 404 Jeffery ammo...which one would you choose for a bolt action rifle??

And why??

Jeff

just to choose between those?
416 ruger ... would prefer 416 AR, but the ruger just works, too...

however, my default answer, for "what big bore should i buy" is 458 Lott, and reload it!

Choose between a proven and reliable round versus a round yet to be released? really tough choice, one sec I got a brain! Brain Blast! I would take the 404 Jeffery.

I love my 404jeffery. Good brass & bullet are available, why not?

Something about a classic.....I love my 404 Jeff. That being said, for a someone who doesn't have an unhealthy attachment to the classics, the Ruger is fine.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

Potato-potahto. I've had 3 416's and one 404. I now have no 416's and one 404. Both are great cartridges. Pays yo money, takes yo choice.

Nostalgia says 404, other than that I would choose the 416 Ruger, it's more practical from a cost standpoint and ballistically superior.

I'm a 416 Rigby man myself

jwp475,

I do understand and appreciate your attraction to the 416 Rigby.

However, due to the size of the action required by the 416 Rigby, I've dropped it from consideration for a true medium bolt action.

quote:

Originally posted by dirklawyer:
Nostalgia says 404, other than that I would choose the 416 Ruger, it's more practical from a cost standpoint and ballistically superior.

Perhaps more practical with the release of Ruger rifles & Hornady ammo in this caliber, but I would have to query where the ballistic superiority comes into it, more modern loadings such as RWSs & A-squareds & I suspect the forthcoming loading from Hornady are certainly the ballistic equal of Hornady loads for the 416 Ruger.
Steve

I doubt Hornady is going to fool around the the standard velocity for the 404 Jeffrey..... So there you are back at ballistic superiority for the 416 Ruger ......

if one over loads a round, and is going to load a low pressure round to high pressure, is the new load HONESTLY the same as the old?

if you load a 404 to 404 dakota pressure, aren't you really shooting a mislabled 404 dakota?

Much like guys loading 45/70 to ruger #1 pressures...working fine in the correct gun, but if you put one of those into the ORIGINAL gun built for the round, you have a bomb...

If you have the disposable income for a very expensive rifle no matter which way you go about it and value nostalgia you go 404

If you are more of the common joe like most people with less disposable income and just want the power to get any job done, you get the 416 Ruger

quote:

Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
If you have the disposable income for a very expensive rifle no matter which way you go about it and value nostalgia you go 404

If you are more of the common joe like most people with less disposable income and just want the power to get any job done, you get the 416 Ruger

+1

Keith

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
I doubt Hornady is going to fool around the the standard velocity for the 404 Jeffrey..... So there you are back at ballistic superiority for the 416 Ruger ......

Hornady 404 Jeffery ballistics


As posted on the Hornady website, advertised as 2300fps/4698ftlbs, very nearly a ballistic equal to the 416 Ruger, I doubt your average Buff would be able to comment on the difference with any degree of objectivity.
Steve

Nostalgia is my cuppa tea. I liked the 416 Rigby best of the 416's I've had, but chose the 404 because I hadn't had one, and because I had a wildcat (400 Tembo) that I wanted rebored...416 might not have been doable, while .423 was. So nostalgia and practicality seemed to walk hand in hand in this case.

quote:

Originally posted by ACRecurve:
Nostalgia is my cuppa tea. I liked the 416 Rigby best of the 416's I've had, but chose the 404 because I hadn't had one, and because I had a wildcat (400 Tembo) that I wanted rebored...416 might not have been doable, while .423 was. So nostalgia and practicality seemed to walk hand in hand in this case.

Andy, what caused you to go off the 400 Tembo, I thought they were 'sposed to be just the last word?
Steve

It was a combination of alot of things. I didn't like making the brass and I had to hand stamp each character of the headstamp to make the brass match the rifle...very tedious and time consuming. Then, I could no longer get the blank headstamp brass. I had lots of trouble with the rifle, including a split in the stock due to the rear crossbolt being force-fitted. Bullets were only available from Barnes in 370 grains. Hawk supposedly had them, but wouldn't answer the phone or emails. I finally just threw my hands in the air, sent the stock to my regular rifle maker (who didn't build the original rifle) for repair (because the original builder failed to repair it when I sent it to him the first time), and sent the barreled action to have the barrel rebored and the chamber cut to 404J. Then I sent the action to Ken Hurst who engraved it for me. I did that just to help me forget all the troubles I had with the original package.

The 400 Tembo is a good round and has been proven to be effective...I've just developed an intentional allergy to wildcats!

I'd take the 404 Jeffery for nostalgia sake.

For nostalgia the 404 certainly wins but for practicality I'm betting the 416 Ruger will become more popular - especially in this country.
But since when does a guy have to choose only one?

quote:

... doubt your average Buff would be able to comment on the difference with any degree of objectivity.

The last time I had a buffalo pause and pull out his calculator to check the power coming at him, he commented that he could tell a real difference between the 404 Jeffery and the 425 Westley-Richards.

Further, he said that most buffalo preferred turning on someone using a French walnut stocked rifle rather than someone using an English walnut stock.

He also said that he preferred being hunted by someone using real open sights instead of these mildot reticles used in the 56mm objective lens scopes.

But that is the opinion of only one buffalo.

He might have been exagerating the opinions of his fellow buffalo.

quote:

Originally posted by Shinzo:

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
I doubt Hornady is going to fool around with the standard velocity for the 404 Jeffrey..... So there you are back at ballistic superiority for the 416 Ruger ......

Hornady 404 Jeffery ballistics


As posted on the Hornady website, advertised as 2300fps/4698ftlbs, very nearly a ballistic equal to the 416 Ruger, I doubt your average Buff would be able to comment on the difference with any degree of objectivity.
Steve

.

Thanks Steve , I didn,t check their web site , I don,t quite understand Hornady saying they are duplicating the original 404 ballistics , as it supposedly produced 2125 fps with the 400 gr bullet originally . But thats ok , the more the merrier up to a point .. .. As I prefer the over 40 cal for a general purpose rifle .and I don,t need or want another great big hunting rifle . The 416 Ruger Hawkeye Alaskan will be ideal... I hope they use a thinner walled barrel than the 416 Rgby . That thing is ridiculous,, at least the first 2 models were .. CZ got the contour right , IMO ....... And I am just really hopeing they put the 2nd recoil lug under the barrel ... I hope I can buy the rifle and shoot the snot out of it and not have to fix it first ..........It would be really cool if Ruger would put a stack of spacers in the butt stock so a person could easily adjust the length of pull for themselves without having to take a frameing saw to the butt stock ....

quote:

Originally posted by GarBy:
Something about a classic.....I love my 404 Jeff. That being said, for a someone who doesn't have an unhealthy attachment to the classics, the Ruger is fine.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

x2

quote:

Originally posted by Hammer:

quote:

... doubt your average Buff would be able to comment on the difference with any degree of objectivity

The last time I had a buffalo pause and pull out his calculator to check the power coming at him, he commented that he could tell a real difference between the 404 Jeffery and the 425 Westley-Richards.

Further, he said that most buffalo preferred turning on someone using a French walnut stocked rifle rather than someone using an English walnut stock.

He also said that he preferred being hunted by someone using real open sights instead of these mildot reticles used in the 56mm objective lens scopes.

But that is the opinion of only one buffalo.

He might have been exagerating the opinions of his fellow buffalo.

quote:

... doubt your average Buff would be able to comment on the difference with any degree of objectivity.

While the buffalo paused to comment, he added that hunters using Remington actions were given an extra two or three seconds to say their last "ah shit" before being gored compared to those using controlled-feed claw-extractor actions. But not all buffalo were so courteous. Some just don't care.


.

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:

quote:

Originally posted by Shinzo:

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
I doubt Hornady is going to fool around with the standard velocity for the 404 Jeffrey..... So there you are back at ballistic superiority for the 416 Ruger ......

Hornady 404 Jeffery ballistics

As posted on the Hornady website, advertised as 2300fps/4698ftlbs, very nearly a ballistic equal to the 416 Ruger, I doubt your average Buff would be able to comment on the difference with any degree of objectivity.
Steve

Thanks Steve , I didn,t check their web site , I don,t quite understand Hornady saying they are duplicating the original 404 ballistics , as it supposedly produced 2125 fps with the 400 gr bullet originally . But thats ok , the more the merrier up to a point .. .. As I prefer the over 40 cal for a general purpose rifle .and I don,t need or want another great big hunting rifle . The 416 Ruger Hawkeye Alaskan will be ideal... I hope they use a thinner walled barrel than the 416 Rgby . That thing is ridiculous,, at least the first 2 models were .. CZ got the contour right , IMO ....... And I am just really hopeing they put the 2nd recoil lug under the barrel ... I hope I can buy the rifle and shoot the snot out of it and not have to fix it first ..........It would be really cool if Ruger would put a stack of spacers in the butt stock so a person could easily adjust the length of pull for themselves without having to take a frameing saw to the butt stock ....

GB458,
To be legal for sale in European Common Market countries Hornady is required to load the .404 Jeffery no higher than the published CIP pressure standard for the cartridge. Today that would be to the higher pressure standard established in 2002 rather than the original 1909’ pressure levels, hence the velocity difference.
Jim