Ok, the same friend who insists that synthetic stocks kick less than wood stocks, now is arguing with me about bullets coming back at you if you shoot a flat rock.

I have never had that experience, and honestly thought it impossible, so all my adult life I have often shot at rocks for target practice, flat or otherwise.

So, I noticed this guy with me would duck, and hide behind something if he noticed I was shooting at a rock, say 50 to 100 yards out. I thought it was sort of silly, so didn't worry about it, but today he insisted that a guy could get hurt that way, especially if shooting solids.

Frankly it is something I had long ago figured was a non-issue, so now I want to know what you guys think about this.

To be clear, I'm not talking about deflected bullets, but bullets coming back in generally the opposite direction as shot, with enough energy to do harm.

KB

KB

I have been hit by "bounce back" when shooting steel and trees.

Some hits have brought blood.

Once when shooting a 44 Mag at a steel plate a 40gr bullet fragement hit me in the chest, going through my shirt, into the skin, luckly hitting a rib, and thus not going into my chest cavity.
That bullet was HOT I guarentee.

Once while shooting a hot load with a reveresed hollow based wadcutter out of a 2" 38 the bullet bounced back off of a tree and hit me in the shooting hand. It did hurt "bad" but did not break any bones.

Another time while participating in a demonstration of bullet resistand glass and Lexan, I fired a KTW 45 ACP round into some "bullet proof" plexiglass.

The KTW slug bounced back and hit someone in the shin and caused a pretty bad wound.

[One good about Lexan is that it usually captures the bullet, limiting injury to bystanders durring a shooting.

So bullet bounce back does occur, and can be dangerous.

These were all instinces of "bounce back" not richochets.

Do not even ask me about them.

I'm not sure that there is a difference between bounce back and riccochet but I've experienced them.

While sighting in my A2 on a steel plate at 100 yards (SS109) the guy next to me decides he's going to shoot my steel plate with his Garand and who knows what leftover vintage ball ammo. The round bounce off the plate and whizzed by my head with enough speed to kill me. I've seen a lot of other weird stuff too. I'd be very careful shooting high velocity solids at hard stuff close range.

KB,
Yes it can happen!!! You can get bullets and splatter back any time you shoot at a hard surface.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0bl4O9Hj0w
Rocks will do the same thing.
Bill

When I was about 15 years old and you could order guns thru the mail I was crazy about antique Colts. I read the Robert Abels catalog everytime it came out looking for something I could afford. I bought a Colt Wells Fargo conversion (I still rember the serial #3558) that was in perfect condition,nickel plate and all. It came with one (all I could Afford) box of 38 rimfire ammo. Took it out in the back yard where there was this big silver leaf maple tree and popped off a round. It hit the paper perfectly and bounced back and hit me beside the shin. Needless to say after we got back from the Dr.'s office where he removed the bullet I had to sell the gun and promise my Mother never to do that again. My Dad kept the target for years. Never figured whether he was proud of the accuracy of the shot or the stupidity involved. Never asked him either.

This is a fine example of why I continue to participate in this forum. I asked a question and get excellent personal experience answers. Thanks a lot. In the future, I think I will be carful about not shooting at flat rocks, and perhaps my friend will not have to duck.
KB

quote:

Once when shooting a 44 Mag at a steel plate a 40gr bullet fragement hit me in the chest, going through my shirt, into the skin, luckly hitting a rib, and thus not going into my chest cavity.
That bullet was HOT I guarentee.

One day I had my 44 Super Blackhawk out shooting and handed it to my wife to fire off a few 44 Special Winchester Silvertips. She fire a couple off and I stepped to the side to the ammunition and she fired again. The bullet came off of an unknown rock in the sand trap and hit me 5 feet to her left. It went through my Woolrich jacket and my flanel and lodged into my skin above my heart and below my collar bone. YES there was blood and two seriously scared people.

I inspect every bullet trap now, natural or man made.

333

Sounds like on that day, you was the bullet trap.

it sucked!

I had a bruise the size of a grapefruit for weeks!

Those 44Spls thump!

As the replies show, the majority of bounce backs are with handguns and steel targets. I have only experienced one bounce back with a rifle and that was also on steel, with the plate at 50m when I shot at it. The bullet came down from a fair height, judging by the shape of the impact it made in the sand to my left.

I am still carying pieces of a 5.56 round in the back of my hand from a bounceback off of a steel door frame.

the other ones I have seen were a range master sarge took one in the gut from bounce back. friend got one in the shin and I got one that ran along the ground bounced off my steele toe and hit me in the nuts. after shooting something hard with a 45acp no damage of a perminant nature but it will get your attention.

This is why we should all wear snowmobile helmets when we shoot our big bores!!

Sorry, couldn't resist. Can't wait to hear if shootaway has a theory on this...NOT.

Cheers,
Canuck

shooting my 458 Lott with 450 gr. TSX, noticed a large block of concrete
about 25 or 30 yards away. thought lets see how these bullets stand up to
concrete. fired two rounds, and walked over to see if i could find any fragments. no pieces found. walked back to my shooting spot and on the ground was LARGE expanded TSX still hot. what was left of the bullet
weighs 410 grains and my shooting into hard surfaces came to an abrupt end.
james

well, if you shoot iron with a bmg
"nope, no more iron"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_516lll2Ck

watch it for your self

I watched that video all the way through, although it took a while on my computer. That sure was impressive, and makes me think about all the variables that came into play to cause that to happen. Too much to contemplate.

The velocity of that rebound, and the distance.

As I said before, I have never had that happen, or anything close, or seen it happen. Obviously the steel plate makes all the difference.

I remember many years ago I made the mistake of shooting my 338 at a fellows gong, out there about 200 yards. He used it for some of his black powder stuff, and I really got chewed out. It was pretty easy to hit with the 338, but more challanging for his methods. He didn't want me punching holes in his steel.

Later, we walked down range to the gong, and my bullet was laying within five feet in front of the target. It was a Speer GS 250 gr.

So I am wondering what makes the difference in what is shown on the video, and my experience with the 338 and the gong? Surely if bounce back is the norm, the bullet would not have been laying so close to the gong.

KB

As a Teenager (that reads, A long time ago and in a galaxy far, far away!) I shot a .22 Long rifle into a salt block at our section in Odessa, Texas. The bullet hit the cone end of the block and returned and nicked my left side. It did not tear the fabric of my shirt, but it left a bruise!

For some reason I have very careful about what I shoot at, since then!

It is (or was) a pretty common occurance at pin shoots. I guess the resiliency of the bowling pins contributed to bounce-back. I've had it happen on limestone in the Hill Country with cast pistol bullets, too. Shot a magazine full of 40 S&W at cactus pads (35-40 yds) that hit a rock cliff behind. I felt something hit my boot toe the last round and looked down to see one bullet laying right there. We found two more within a yard of us. I don't do that anymore!

Many many moons ago I was range officer at a military range training young officers with the M1911 .45 automatic. Blowback, bounce back was so bad on that range that they finally shut the range down to mine the backstop for the lead, which stopped the bounce back. If you ever have the opportunity to look at the backstop area of an old GI machine gun range the piles of .50 and .308 bullets just laying there and waiting to fly will give you the shivers.

LLS

I still have a chunk of a .375 FailSafe in my right forearm from a bounce back from a steel plate a bit under 50 yards during some fast reload drills before a safari.

STUPID mistake I won't make again.

Kyler

KB,
I can understand your skepticism about bounce back in its many forms. The truth is it’s real enough. I have run a silowet program( small bore and center fire) before and we had to replace the steel animals when they got enough pock marks because the pockmarks or bullet craters in the surface would cause pieces of the disintegrating bullets to come straight back toward the firing line. This is why NRA changed the distance to the chickens from 25 yards to 40 yards to reduce the chances of injury. I have seen plenty of shrapnel come back from the 100 yard line.

“So I am wondering what makes the difference in what is shown on the video, and my experience with the 338 and the gong? Surely if bounce back is the norm, the bullet would not have been laying so close to the gong.â€

I think the plate on the video is solidly held in place. With the gong it is attached to a supporting device chain what ever at the top, I like nylon parachute cord it is strong and easy to repair you don’t have to drag the welder down to the 200 yard line to reweld the chains. When a bullet hits a gong supported this way it pushes the gong back and angels the surface toward the ground. Watch when some one shoots the gong and you will see dirt/dust fly in front of the gong. I suggest you by your friend some 3 inch T1 alloy steel and you can shoot it for quite a while before it gets holes in it or to pocked up.
When you shoot at a rock it will act in the same way a pocked up piece of steel will and send splatter back at you. The fact that you have never been hit just shows how lucky you are.
Bill

I built a steel gong for practice shooting before going to Africa this last October. It's 8" square, 1 1/2" thick and hangs from two steel chains on a tube steel framework. The gong swings nicely upon bullet impact.

I shot the gong for most of the summer with .375 H&H 225g Hornaday's going about 2500 by the book. None of the bullets bounced back or ricochet. I could see a dust cloud upon impact and when I was down range checking the gong I could find small bullet fragments on the ground. Foolishly I suppose I did try one 300g Barnes solid but luckily for me it also came apart on impact. All the .375 bullets I used dented the gong about 1/4 to 1/2".

I had my Colt .45 out at the range one of those practice shooting days and thought I'd move the gong up closer and shoot some lead cast bullets. I was the only shooter at the range. The first bullet hit the gong and ricochet into the ground under the gong, I could see the mud puddle splash. I thought to myself, "This is stupid and dangerous," The second shot hit the gong and ricochet into the ground about halfway back to me, about 10 or 15 yards. I thought again, "This is REALLY STUPID!" For the third and final shot I squinted my eyes as a safety precaution, squeezed the trigger, hit the gong and was struck in my leather boot by the bullet. The lead slug didn't penetrate, but the bullet did hit hard enough to scuff the leather.

I yelped at the impact, looked down at my feet, looked around to make sure no one saw anything, put the .45 away and went home. The good news is I did learn a lesson and am now safely back in the protective custody of my SPED teachers.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Cooley:
KB,
The fact that you have never been hit just shows how lucky you are.
Bill

Lucky? Shot at and missed, Sh-t at and hit many times.

Thanks for the good info. So, lately I've quit pushing my luck in many ways.

KB