As I have been exploring 458 caliber rounds for a future project I have made a few observations. It strikes me that the 458 Win Mag and 458 Lott are on the low end of the velocity spectrum (2100-2250fps) with the 460 Wby at the high end (2600fps) using 500 grain bullets. I know there are a tremendous number of wildcats residing within the 2250-2600fps gap but why haven't there been more commercial successes within this range? It seems that Remington would have made a logical extension of their RUM line by expanding it into 416/458 range...although not on a 700 platform. Just bouncing ideas around as I am curious.

WHY????
Recoil.

I think the reason there is not more comercial intrest in a rifle and cartrige combo that will throw a 500 grain bullet upwards of 2300fps is
LACK OF NEED!!!!

Realy, unless they have found somewhere we can hunt wooly mamoth or shoot sperm whales from open boats as they did 100+ years ago
WHAT do we need a rifle/cartrige combo like that for.

Even though big boomers like you describe would undoubtly have a lot of "cool factor" rifle makers, just like auto makers with cars are only going to take the expence to develop rifles and cartriges that they have a reasonable expectation of selling to the mass market. Most guys who buy rifles to hunt go after deer in the USA. They hardly need a 585 NYATI for a whitetail.

So I would say the short answer to the lack of mainstream intrest in a cartrige you describe is ecenomics. JMHO

I would like to see the AR line get picked up by Rem or Sako. Sako is lacking in the DG cart dept!
If people feel the need for bigger carts, they will decide for themselves.
I don't like someone telling me what I need! Others feel the same.

450 Dakota, 450 Rigby to add to your list of factory chambered high velocity .458" rounds.

But I am with 450 NE No2 and Uglystick, there is no need and thus no market for a very high recoil round.

Especcially when the 458wm or 450NE or Lott will do what needs to be done.

JPK

The market for 40 caliber and larger bores is very limited. The 458 win mag was successful because it was the only game in town for a long time, and it worked. Now with the plethora of 416's, the 458 has been pretty well dropped by the major manufacturers, because they don't sell that many. Darn few folks can handle a 458 lott, and less still when you push that 500 gr bullet even faster.

For those looking for bragging rights, you guy right to the 460W. Those looking for something more than a 458 lott general jump up in bore size, not velocity.

With all that said, I think for tropical conditions, the 450 Rigby and 460W loaded to 2200-2400 fps are the best 45 caliber magazine rounds. Low pressure and a big enough case to be flexible with bullet and powder choices.

I'll throw in the 458 AR... it can do 500gr at 2200, no sweat, and 2400, with a 24" barrel, at probably lott pressures

and is the ONLY "big" 45 that fits in a standard length (cheap) action

quote:

With all that said, I think for tropical conditions, the 450 Rigby and 460W loaded to 2200-2400 fps are the best 45 caliber magazine rounds.

I would agree with you. I was reading the thread on the 458 Lott at 2250-2300 on this forum and see people trying to squeeze every ounce of velocity from the Lott when it is very effective in the 2100-2200 ballpark. I have never been much of a fan of compressed loads and it strikes me that when you start running out of case room...get a bigger case.

quote:

I'll throw in the 458 AR... it can do 500gr at 2200, no sweat, and 2400, with a 24" barrel, at probably lott pressures

Jeffe, I think your AR line has tremendous commercial viability...and all in a standard length action with no belt.

Another reason is that once you increase the diameter of the cartridge beyond that of the 458 Win/Lott case you reduce magazine capacity.
465H&H

I guess when the .460 G&A came out, brass was hard to get. Otherwise, I am sure it would have been more popular.

me, I think that once you get to the 458 Lott and wqant/need more steam, you go to a .50 calibre rifle. That's my rationalization for the 510KX.

JMHO

Rich

In reality, for hunting, few NEED more steam out of a 458. Mostly it is a situation of "I'll go you one better". Look at all of the guys trying to make sporting rounds out of military cases. What next forget panatella sized rounds, whimpy, how about beer can sized rounds. Now that what I mean!

A number of years ago I made up a 460 G&A on a Winchester push feed action. This was before the classics were available. It would push a bullet along at about 2500 f/s. It was, Like the 460 WBY. unnecessary. It hurt much worse than my light for caliber 505 Gibbs. I just sold it to get away from it. Overpenetration on game is the problem with the big faster rounds as well as uncontrolability. The guy that i sold it to shot a whole bunch of buffalo in Tanzania and promptly went to see the magistrate. It seems his one bullet was responsible for killing/wounding 7 others. When is overpenetration a problem?Most of the time in Africa. Kevin Robertson suggests to load them down to Nitro Express velocities and be happy.

get a 458 win mag and be happy for the rest of your life....