Been playing with my .577 Snider Carbine again and have the idea it might be interesting to hunt a white tail or red deer with it this fall. Has plenty of energy but I'd have to get close because it's not fantastically accurate. Silly or an interesting endeavor? Both? Definitely would have to be thinking closer to bow hunting ranges than rifle ranges. I've got better tools for the job but it'd be historically interesting to me. Reasonably fast follow up shot ability. Lesser accuracy than some of the other choices of that era in the gun cabinet.

do it and enjoy!!! to me it's about as much about the weapon i'm using as it is about the hunt itself. go for it!!!

I have a Snider carbine I was able to get from South Africa. The bore is very nice, but when I tried it with recent factory reloads I couldn't keep it within a 10 inch group at 25 yards. The bullets weren't keyholing, but the rifle just isn't accurate enough for even archery ranges. That is a shame as I like to use vintage guns when I hunt and have taken deer and hogs with some really unique firearms over the years.

Perry

Clean bore Rhodesian gun here. Westley Richards commercial manufacture. I can get 10" at 25 but I've been trying to come up with a more accurate loading. I'd be a lot happier if I can figure out how to get it to about 6". That's why I have mixed feelings about doing it if I can't get it to shoot better. Definitely wouldn't shoot at anything living past 25 with it as it is (unless it was a large troop formation) and I'd want to have another rifle along or somebody to second me.

well.. slug the barrel and find out how far from .577 it really is.. or your bullets....

anyway, if your bullets are undersized as compred to the barrel, paperpatch them and see how it shoots

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
well.. slug the barrel and find out how far from .577 it really is.. or your bullets....

anyway, if your bullets are undersized as compred to the barrel, paperpatch them and see how it shoots

jeffe

Done that. Now I'm playing with propellants. Got some real honest to god black powder ordered and am going to see how it does.

Tom: As your slugging probably suggested, you will want a soft lead bullet close to .590 or larger. If your rifle has a 1:72 or slower twist, as the earlier Sniders did, you will want a very short bullet as well, on the order of 450 grains or less. If you have the later 1:48 five-groove barrel, you should be able to stabilize a considerably heavier bullet, and it need not even be hollow-based if it matches your barrel diameter. Trying to get accuracy out of a slow-twist Snider with any but a light bullet, even of proper diameter, is an exercise in frustration. Assuming a good bore and crown, there should be a load for your Snider that would go into less than 6 inches at 100 yards.

By the way, the lads here have a great deal of experience loading for and shooting Sniders, which are imminently suitable for deer and bigger stff at proper range:
http://p223.ezboard.com/bbritishmilitariaforums

quote:

Bill/Oregon:

Yeah, came out .589. Thank you much. Will see what I can do.

I've got some .583 5B like 550gr slugs for my 58 caliber muzzle loaders...

i'll weigh them to find out

anyway, a wrap of paper takes them to .590 ....

want me to send you some?

Jeffe mentions a very viable way of adjusting for your bore diameter with paper patching. Just takes a little more effort to lube.
Tom, sent you a PM.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
I've got some .583 5B like 550gr slugs for my 58 caliber muzzle loaders...

i'll weigh them to find out

anyway, a wrap of paper takes them to .590 ....

want me to send you some?

It's a 1:78 3-groove 16.5" barrel so I'm not sure if they'd fly right. I s'pose I could try.

Tom, with that 1:78 3-groove barrel, you'll want to stay under 450 grains, and even consider a .600 round ball. 'Nother PM sent.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Tom, with that 1:78 3-groove barrel, you'll want to stay under 450 grains, and even consider a .600 round ball. 'Nother PM sent.

Yup, the rifling obviously doesn't even make a quarter twist in the 16.5" from the breech. It's commercial with no acceptance marks and an odd factory barrel length, so somebody intentionally ordered it that way, but I can't see why. It is light though and be handy for hiking in the woods. My .450 Marlin/.45-70 BFR revolver actually weighs more. 480 grain loads in a 5.5lb Snider with a steel buttplate make for an interesting amount of recoil. Story is a Boer ordered it that way. Still be interesting to try to make it shoot straight.

Patched .570 Speer round balls with a bit of american pioneer powder behind them are getting towards minute of dinner plate at 50 yards.

You might check paint balls for a fit and use them on armadillos.

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:
You might check paint balls for a fit and use them on armadillos.

You might check in with your doc on your meds.

quote:

Originally posted by tom`:

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:
You might check paint balls for a fit and use them on armadillos.

You might check in with your doc on your meds.

You seem to be the one needing all the help.

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:

You seem to be the one needing all the help.

All you do is name call and insult people you don't agree with. What a hero! Back to ignore for you.

Your plan was to show maturity by following me around regarding legitimate posts and trying to turn them into an op for you to insult me?

You have been permanently switched off as far as responses from me.

On a pragmatic, not note,
.570 round balls with .020 patches seem to work well. Because of the slow twist I'm going to try to keep the ball weight as light as reasonable for the bore. Theoretically brings it up to about where it needs to be on diameter and seems to shoot pretty well. Now I'll start playing with charges.

Maybe later I'll work up a .223 sabot round for my little "might reload" stalker.

Tom,
How do you use a patched round ball on a Snider?
I have a .577 Snider double rifle and would like to try it.
Thanks
Martin

quote:

Originally posted by Martin Godio:
Tom,
How do you use a patched round ball on a Snider?
I have a .577 Snider double rifle and would like to try it.
Thanks
Martin

Wrap it in paper and crimp it in the brass

This gives a pretty good overview of the general idea: Paper Patching Cartridges

The wrapping is just a bit more fiddly with round balls. You want the case mouth open enough that you can put the patched ball in by hand with no press and you really don't want to crimp it. That was a minor bit of humor. Just needs to stay in tight enough that they don't fall out between your cartridge box and the chamber.

quote:

Originally posted by tom`:
Patched .570 Speer round balls with a bit of american pioneer powder behind them are getting towards minute of dinner plate at 50 yards.

Witty, witty. It sounds like a fun challenge to me... sort of similar to muzzle loading, but perahps not as accurate. One of the best if not the best part of the hunt for me is the stalk. Get your cammy on, use some scent masking spray, get on your belly and have a good time. Just aim for the middle.

If all else fails, try and find a cheap .58 caliber muzzle loader barrel blank and have a gunsmith fit it to your action. With the pressures these old Sniders are loaded to, I can't see why you couldn't make that work.

quote:

Originally posted by Tex21:
If all else fails, try and find a cheap .58 caliber muzzle loader barrel blank and have a gunsmith fit it to your action. With the pressures these old Sniders are loaded to, I can't see why you couldn't make that work.

I went to college in Trinidad to be a gunsmith. I could do that myself, but then it wouldn't be a historical Boer ordered Snider anymore that shot at the Brits. I'm gonna figure out how to make this one shoot.

Today's morning's experiments have shown conclusively that the .589 bore likes .020 patched .570 balls much better than it likes lubed .60s. Noticeable difference in recoil in otherwise almost equivalent bullet weights because of the slight swaging of the .60s, no doubt. Time to play with charges some more but it's getting close to consistent minute of deer heart and lungs.

Happy Turkey Day to all.

quote:

Originally posted by tom`:
Been playing with my .577 Snider Carbine again and have the idea it might be interesting to hunt a white tail or red deer with it this fall. Has plenty of energy but I'd have to get close because it's not fantastically accurate. Silly or an interesting endeavor? Both? Definitely would have to be thinking closer to bow hunting ranges than rifle ranges. I've got better tools for the job but it'd be historically interesting to me. Reasonably fast follow up shot ability. Lesser accuracy than some of the other choices of that era in the gun cabinet.

Reading a piece years ago by an African hunter. Don't remember who, exactly. But he had used both the Snider .577 and the Martini-Henry .577/.450 for hunting there early in his career. Game he killed with these rifles included lion. He said that the .577 would kill lion, but one had to be relatively close,and that the effect of the bullet on lion was "slow". Placement had to be precise as well. His opinion of the .577/.450 480-grain bullet from the Martini-Henry was higher than for the .577 Snider.

But it should be a good deer and hog round! I would certainly give it a try.

quote:

Originally posted by PWN375:
I have a Snider carbine I was able to get from South Africa. The bore is very nice, but when I tried it with recent factory reloads I couldn't keep it within a 10 inch group at 25 yards. The bullets weren't keyholing, but the rifle just isn't accurate enough for even archery ranges. That is a shame as I like to use vintage guns when I hunt and have taken deer and hogs with some really unique firearms over the years.

Perry

I applaud the efforts involving slugging the bore, and trying some ROUND BALLS in it. I'll bet you all will find a load that will work. A .577" round ball is impressive!

El Deguello

"Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter"
or "Karamojo Safari"
Bell armed his askaries in this manner.

If I remember correctly, Ross Seyfried wrote a lengthy piece on the Sneider within the last five years. Look in Rifle. Knowing Seyfried he offered generous comments about load work-up and extracting accuracy.

Hi,
Seyfried also wrote an article for The Double Gun Journal. Vol 10 Issue 2.
Martin

Tom,
Have you recovered any patches? Have you tried using a grease or bees wax wafer under the ball? This sounds like an interesting project.
Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Cooley:
Tom,
Have you recovered any patches? Have you tried using a grease or bees wax wafer under the ball? This sounds like an interesting project.
Bill

No recovered patches other than dust and bits yet. Been using 1/8" pre-lubed .58 cal muzzleloader felt wads but I've got some bees wax ordered to play with.

Tom,
Have you looked at the information on the snider boards at
http://pub182.ezboard.com/bbritishmilitariaforums ?
There's alot of shooters that have played with these Sniders over there.
I'm waiting for the group buy of molds to come in to get mine barking again.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:
Tom,
Have you looked at the information on the snider boards at
http://pub182.ezboard.com/bbritishmilitariaforums ?
There's alot of shooters that have played with these Sniders over there.
I'm waiting for the group buy of molds to come in to get mine barking again.

Yup, me too. Just been buying speer and hornady round balls for now though. With the 1:78 twist I'm keeping the projectile as light as I can and it makes a world of difference compared to those ten-x 480 grainers to be shooting a bullet 100 grains smaller. Patched .570s are so far shooting better than .577 balls. If only they'd made it with about 1:36 rifling....but at the time it was what it was. Definitely makes it easy to clean the bore.

Alot of them have had good luck with .600 RB's.
Have you tried bore size + a tad?

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:
Alot of them have had good luck with .600 RB's.
Have you tried bore size + a tad?

It seems to like .570s and .020 paper which brings it up to a thou over bore slugging. Low bullet weight seems key with a 1:78 twist.

You might have to talk me out of my extra barreled action. Mk2* IIRC

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:
You might have to talk me out of my extra barreled action. Mk2* IIRC

Could be arranged. PM me pics and what you are asking. Maybe even put a 1:36 barrel on it.

.590 balls came in the post today. I'm going to go see what they do with 80 grain equivalent pioneer behind them. Still reckon the .570s are the best bet because of the lower mass but only one way to find out.

Cheers,
Tom