RIP......a flaky idea!!!

11 January 2007, 20:36

It's possible (I said possible mind ya) that if one fireformed 338 win mag brass in the .375 Ruger chamber he would have suitable 375 Ruger brass.....all he needs then is a neck sizing die and walla....he can be shooting his .375 Ruger....
Screw Hornady's schedule of Mfg!
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maybe I've been reading too many of Boom Stick's iseas!

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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill

11 January 2007, 20:40

500grains

Better wear a welding mask when firing off those rounds.

11 January 2007, 20:46

duikerman

I'd be tempted to try light 375 Taylor loads for fireforming. I don't see the risk here.

11 January 2007, 20:53

500grains

You will be firing a belted mag case in an unbelted chamber. The brass ahead of the belt has to flow a lot to fill the gap, and it might rupture. New brass costs less than lost eyesight.

11 January 2007, 21:01

vapodog

quote:
Originally posted by 500grains:
The brass ahead of the belt has to flow a lot to fill the gap, and it might rupture. New brass costs less than lost eyesight.

New brass or even loaded ammo isn't available.

The amount of fireforming of 375 H&H brass to 375 wby is far more....the key here is the place the forming is happening.....

Remmeber...I said it was a flaky idea....

11 January 2007, 21:02

500grains

Could you use 8x68 brass?

11 January 2007, 21:04

vapodog

quote:
Originally posted by 500grains:
Could you use 8x68 brass?

Possibly.....

I'm sure RIP has thought about it......maybe...

11 January 2007, 21:15

boom stick

maybe we owe scovil an apology and form 8x68

11 January 2007, 21:19

vapodog

A person would have to do a bit of reverse engineering to get the headspace correct to get solid ignition....but this can be done with a 300 win mag case and a grinder to shorten a 300 win mag die to fit the headspace of the chamber...go from there!

11 January 2007, 21:31

boom stick

go vapo!

11 January 2007, 21:41

vapodog

actually a little birdie flew by and said that Hornady's first prototype cases were made from 338 mag brass......the bird was flaky...but real...

Mind you this is pure rumor!!!!!not at all reliable information!!!!

Let me ask that birdie if dies are available yet....

11 January 2007, 22:01

analog_peninsula

Patience is a virtue. It will make you a better man to wait for the proper cases.

11 January 2007, 22:10

vapodog

quote:
Originally posted by analog_peninsula:
Patience is a virtue. It will make you a better man to wait for the proper cases.

Two vultures were sitting together high on a branch of a dead cottonwood tree looking very hungry.

One spoke to he other:
"Patience hell, I'm going out and kill something".

11 January 2007, 22:21

Grandpasez

Safer to take 404 brass and shrink it a little.
I can do that on my case spinner and
one base swage die, safely, with a case
ending up as strong or stronger than before.
What is the base size of the Ruger case?
Or maybe RUM cases.Ed

11 January 2007, 22:29

RIP

vapodog,
I thought about that independently of you, but did not think of that for very long. Just a few seconds is all I spent on those ideas. I'll wait for the ammo to get the brass. Some did that sort of thing to make Newton brass, but that required sizing the belt down a little and then blowing it out above the belt to iron it out, splitting the difference without splitting the case head. I won't risk it with the bigger .375 Ruger chamber. And we all know that Scovill is indeed eating 8x68S crow. Look how small the rim and head are, vs. .532" for both on the .375 Ruger:

No bets from me on when .375 Ruger ammo will show up though.

11 January 2007, 22:50

vapodog

Hey....just trying to helpout a bit.

11 January 2007, 23:18

vapodog

I have confirmed that dies are in stock at Hornady.....

That opens up whole new doors!!!!

12 January 2007, 01:31

boom stick

quote:
maybe I've been reading too many of Boom Stick's iseas!

12 January 2007, 02:57

Mike Mc

Vapodog,

One big difference between using 338 brass for the 375 Ruger and firing 375 H&H in the 375 Wby is the very sharp corner that would be formed on the 338 brass just in front of the belt.

Another issue is that assuming Win brass in 338 has not changed....the solid head of the case comes up just above the belt.

Using 8 X 68 brass could be a real disaster waiting to happen.

Mike

12 January 2007, 08:15

RIP

quote:
Originally posted by vapodog:
I have confirmed that dies are in stock at Hornady.....

That opens up whole new doors!!!!

Thanks for that, and I'll believe it when they are in my hands.

12 January 2007, 08:16

RIP

quote:
Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
... Using 8 X 68 brass could be a real disaster waiting to happen.

Mike

Mike, I get it.

I've eaten my share of crow, but I am passing this old bird to Dave. Scovill is due for some too, so no excuses please, ladies and gentlemen!

12 January 2007, 08:30

RIP

I could not find .375 Ruger dies listed at
www.hornady.com

They have not updated the web site and you have to make a phone call???

12 January 2007, 08:47

Mike Mc

Ron,

Maybe Hornady is short on 375 projectiles.....they might all be going to Wby for the 378......and a handful for the 375 Wby

12 January 2007, 09:22

vapodog

quote:
Originally posted by RIP:
I could not find .375 Ruger dies listed at
www.hornady.com

They have not updated the web site and you have to make a phone call???

They have them in stock.....call and order if you wish.....

1-800-338-3220.....ask for stock number 546415

12 January 2007, 09:33

Robgunbuilder

Attempting to fireform a belted case in a chamber not designed for belted cases will almost certainly result iun a head separation. BAD IDEA! REAL BAD idea!
Like Ed suggested try using RUM brass, size it down full length and then form a crude shoulder with a shortened .375 H&H die or make a .375 sholder die in a lathe. For fireforming it doesn't have to be perfect just enough to light the primer. Turn the case head down and your done. If I have time I'll knock out a few.-Rob

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012
Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise!

12 January 2007, 16:23

HondoLane

Could the RCBS die that is used to start altering 338Win to 9.3x64Brenneke by removing the belt be used in this scenario? I have not used one of these, but have seen mentioned. If I am out in left field on this one, please pass some of that shiny black flying critter my way.

12 January 2007, 22:02

RIP

vapodog,
Thanks, I ordered the dies. Only $39 plus change and about $5 shipping. Delivery within 10 days? We'll see.

HondoLane:
For our consideration, some drawings from Steve's Reloading Page: The beltless .375 Ruger should have the same rim and head size as the belted .375 Epstein, just for comparison.

12 January 2007, 23:06

vapodog

my guess.....

12 January 2007, 23:09

boom stick

the ruger is a slight sub cal neck vap and i think a 30 degree shoulder

12 January 2007, 23:43

RIP

Lessee if Joe allows me to post some pics from his excellent report at:

www.realguns.com/archives/134.htm

Chamber cast:

Drawing likely pretty accurate except imaginary rim diameter:

Hawkeye bolt face holding .532" rim of .375 RUM:

12 January 2007, 23:48

RIP

My guess is the neck length should be pretty accurate from the above at 0.3100" long, a short neck.

I would guess the shoulder would be closer to the 25 to 30 degree numbers of vapodog and boom stick, but Joe may be a super accurate angle measurer at 22 deg. 20'.

Factory brass may be .002" below the max head of .532", and the shoulder may well be .516" to .518" max, just going by Joe's work.

13 January 2007, 16:43

HondoLane

I have put off the order I had on a new 9.3x64Brenneke and have been chompin' at the bit all winter waiting on the specs for the 375 Ruger to be released. Thank You for the info on that Epstein/Brenneke comaparison. At least it looks like a new rifle will accompany me on hunts this next Fall. The specs on the case look like exactly what I want. I just want to make sure that specs are set and cases are avalable before I plunk down money on a rifle in this chamber. Thank God I have more patience than I did in my youth.

14 January 2007, 07:47

Art S.

RIP

I think the suggestion of 404 brass is the best. I suspect the bolt face will have enough slop to accept the head, and the base would have to shrink around .006 to fit. You likely could anneal the case well, lube it up good and form it in two or three passes through the 375 Ruger die while lubing between passes. If you have a blank die body, you could bore a .532 hole through one and chamfer the bottom.

If you had some 333 Jeffrey cases, they may be even better (they are just about exactly the right length when expanded). You could bump the base down with a heavy press and no expander in the die, then anneal and expand the neck to 375. Drop in a forming load of bullseye with a cheap 375 bullet seated tight and far enough out to hit the lands and form. Anneal again and you would be good to go.

This might be a good way to be the private individual in the country at the range with the Ruger.

14 January 2007, 07:48

Art S.

quote:
Originally posted by Art S.:
RIP

I think the suggestion of 404 brass is the best. I suspect the bolt face will have enough slop to accept the head, and the base would have to shrink around .006 to fit. You likely could anneal the case well, lube it up good and form it in two or three partial passes through the 375 Ruger die while lubing between passes. If you have a blank die body, you could bore a .532 hole through one and chamfer the bottom.

If you had some 333 Jeffrey cases, they may be even better (they are just about exactly the right length when expanded). You could bump the base down with a heavy press and no expander in the die, then anneal and expand the neck to 375. Drop in a forming load of bullseye with a cheap 375 bullet seated tight and far enough out to hit the lands and form. Anneal again and you would be good to go.

This might be a good way to be the private individual in the country at the range with the Ruger.

14 January 2007, 07:48

Art S.

quote:
Originally posted by Art S.:
quote:
Originally posted by Art S.:
RIP

I think the suggestion of 404 brass is the best. I suspect the bolt face will have enough slop to accept the head, and the base would have to shrink around .006 to fit. You likely could anneal the case well, lube it up good and form it in two or three partial passes through the 375 Ruger die while lubing between passes. If you have a blank die body, you could bore a .532 hole through one and chamfer the bottom.

If you had some 333 Jeffrey cases, they may be even better (they are just about exactly the right length when expanded). You could bump the base down with a heavy press and no expander in the die, then anneal and expand the neck to 375. Drop in a forming load of bullseye with a cheap 375 bullet seated tight and far enough out to hit the lands and fireform. Anneal again and you would be good to go.

This might be a good way to be the private individual in the country at the range with the Ruger.

14 January 2007, 10:41

Grandpasez

If i did a 404 case on my spinner/lathe,
I use a floating multi-faceted cutting
tool, and I'd do the rim exact .532 size,
same as I did when making my 458HE.
Takes about 1 minute.Then rim fits perfect.
Also I'd take a little at base just ahead of
groove on 404 out at angle to the sides.
That way a regular press and most sizing dies
swage base easy, without a huge force which
can kink the metal at the base, weakening it.
A lot of sizing are made too small at base,
but work perfect for swaging. cut out the top
so the brass can lengthen without wrinkling,
the use other dies/fireforming for the rest.
If a sizing die used as a swage, with open
top doesn't make it small enough, shorten it
a little until it does, by taking
a little at atime off the bottom.
These tried and true procedures will
work for all kinds of wildcatting.You don't
kink the heavy part of the base and cases
stay strong, good for many firings,
like my wildcats.Ed

15 January 2007, 21:28

Robgunbuilder

Wasn't there a .375 wildcat based on the 9.3X64 case? Can't remember its name. However, I built a 9.3X64 a few years ago and was pretty amazed by its performance. I got like 2950fps with a 250 gr bullet and sub MOA accuracy. Fit nearly perfectly in a old FN mauser action and took nearly no work to get it to feed perfectly. Like most of my stuff like that, a friend shot it and away it went. Personnaly if I want a .375, the good old H&H is good enough for me.-Rob