Having the urge to buy a big gun I realize I have no idea where to start. I have been reading many posts about which is which and I am wondering why the Weatherby cartidges are seldom referenced? I love 240 thru 340 so what is wrong with 378 thru 460? I also love 222 thru 338 so I am open minded about my selection of a first big case just curious about the Weatherbys.

The 378 based carts (378, 416, 460) are BIG steps up in terms of recoil and in all honesty a whole lot more then necessary.

If you're comfortable with the 340....you can probably handle some of the stuff from the faster 40's on up. IIRC the 340, depending on rifle weight, is right there or ahead of the 375 H&H in terms of recoil.

Maybe a 416 Rigby? Cz550 is around 1000$

I have the 340 wby, all of the big bore Wby's are a significant jump up in recoil. The muzzle brakes and down loading could help you acclimate. Of the three biggest, I would go with the 460 and download a bit to get lott velocities. The 416's recoil is a bit more fierce than the 460, not sure why. If you truly like wby, get a 500 Asquare, a 460 case necked up to 500, then you can get something special for all that recoil.

John

CZ in 416 Rigby or 458 Lott will give you the most bang for the buck. The Wbys in 378 to 460 cost a lot more.

CZs don't come with a muzzle brake and you will find a 416 Rigby loaded to full power or the 458 Lott with full loads will give you plenty of recoil and all at a good price.



The CZ 416 Rigby also opens the door to conversion to 500 A Square which as Big Bore Boar Hunter mentioned is the 460 Wby necked to 50 calibre.

The 378-416-460 Wby case is basically a 416 Rigby Improved with a belt added.

If you are not sure what you want then the CZ is a good starting point since you get a rifle to start with in a big banger and a rifle that offers lots of flexibility for changes/conversions.

quote:

John

I would agree with Mike. The CZ550 gives a very reliable gun for an entry level price. The 416 is probably more versatile than the 458Lott, unless you only hunt in heavy shade. Both are big enough for anything, unless you are a PH that needs something bigger than most clients. For an 'under 50 yards' rifle the 500s and up are nice but 458 Lott probably adequate.

if you want to SHOOT alot, then get a .458 something ... the bullets are cheap enough that it does make a real difference in reloading

the webbies, if down loaded to the next caliber velocity, are great big cases and if down loaded, aren't horrible..

all that being said, one of the worst kicking rifles i've ever shot was a 378 webby...

if you want to start with something, get a 458 lott on a CZ and reload until (or if) that gets boring, and have it rechambered to 460 webby, if you like

jeffe

Nothing wrong with Weatherby, in fact they have plenty of case capacity which is a big plus.

I'd agree with the 416 Rigby. I have several CZ's and the Rigby will do everything you want to do. The other choice would be a CZ in 458 Lott because of the tremendous selection of 45 caliber bullets. If you get bored with the Lott, it can be rechambered to 450 Dakota, which is the 416 necked up to 458 caliber. You can load it to 460 specs if you want to.

Rich

I appreciate the input Gents. I have no aspirations to become a PH. I really don't even have much interest in bears. I do like to...love to shoot. I am not as concerned with price as I am about buying something I can get my money back out of If I fall out of love, which has happened with all but 6 of the rifles I have owned. I may start with the 375 H&H and see where it takes me, but I must admit I am a big fan of Roy.

quote:

Originally posted by Quintus:
Having the urge to buy a big gun I realize I have no idea where to start. I have been reading many posts about which is which and I am wondering why the Weatherby cartidges are seldom referenced? I love 240 thru 340 so what is wrong with 378 thru 460? I also love 222 thru 338 so I am open minded about my selection of a first big case just curious about the Weatherbys.

Best to start with what you already have. Then plan for the addition (or 2).

Quintus,

You can't make a better "first big bore choice" than a 375 H&H

Lots of cartridges with more power (read more pain, muzzle blast, $$$)but the 375 H&H is a proven classic and would be easy to sell should you fall out of love....doubt that will happen.

Oh, stop it.

If you don't handload (as I don't), .375 H&H. If you do, .458 Lott.

Geez. Rifle Loonies.

Buy the 460 Weatherby and don't look back.

If you really want a Weatherby, why not a 375 Weatherby? Nice cartridge, can shoot 375 H&H in a pinch. A 300g A-Frame at 2700 fps will hurt most things.

Chuck

I have to jump on board with the CZ-550 in .416 Rigby recommendation. The .416 Rigby Hornaday ammo isn't badly priced and the Rigby has an advantage for you over the .458 Lott as it is a very easy conversion to .460 WBY MAG or .500 A2 as others have mentioned. You can't go wrong with a .375 H&H or a .458 Lott but if you decide you want to scrtch the 7000lb muzzle energy itch those chamberings would require a lot more bolt face and action work to convert and more $$$ to a gunsmith. On the CZs, one thing I would add is a Wisner's pocket plate for 4 down in the magazine.

Quintus,
The weatherby philosophy was that velocity killed and the origional premise was the 300 weatherby could kill any animal on earth, by velocity.

Many folks here do not buy into that, at least not for the big heavy animals. I dont know from any personal experience. I have read and belive: The big packyderms require good penetration by a solid more than hyper-velocity shock effect. This school of though relays on heavier bullet weight at more modest 2200-2400fps velocity for knock down power and 'reliable' penetration. This is not the Weatherby way.

Not that you ever get agreement here on anything. But I think that summarizes part of the resistance to Weatherby.

If; I am going to dish out say 6-7000 ft-lbs energy I want a 50 caliber 600 grain bullet to deliver that. Or for 5000+ ft-lbs something in the 400 to 500 grain bullet weight at 24-2200 fps.

Another reason, at least for me, is the styling of the Weatherby guns. I prefer more traditional.

I will tell you this though - nobody would tell me what to like or not like and if YOU LIKE Weatherby, then you should go ahead and try the 460. What the heck, its your money and your taste in firearms and if you think its all about velocity. Or maybe you just want a big gun for kicks, the 460 should be a kick.

.458 Win. Mag. and .458 Lott are the most popular calibers in Africa for DG. Lott is a longer version of the Win. Mag. and the Win. Mag. will chamber/fire in a Lott. It's an "elephant gun" caliber. (And the local elephants are quaking in their boots.)

This is the caliber pictured at the top of this forum. Straight wall, easy to load. Also, the .458 bullet is readily available because it's the same dia. as the 45/70 Govt.

I priced .458 Win. Mag. -- Federal "Cape Shok" 350 gr. ran $119.99 for a box of 20. Reloading is the way to go.

And so, I had a 45/70 Govt. when I found a Ruger No. 1 in .458 Win. Mag. at a gunshow, for the right price, with the right features for me.

Pays to shop around, look at what's available, be open to buying what comes up in the used realm.

One thing I keep handy when "shopping around" is a reloading manual which discusses caliber, load data, ballistics.

I'll be practical and suggest either the 375 Ruger or the 416 Remington. Remember, I'm being practical. Don't let me spoil your fun.

quote:

Originally posted by Quintus:
I appreciate the input Gents. I have no aspirations to become a PH. I really don't even have much interest in bears. I do like to...love to shoot. I am not as concerned with price as I am about buying something I can get my money back out of If I fall out of love, which has happened with all but 6 of the rifles I have owned. I may start with the 375 H&H and see where it takes me, but I must admit I am a big fan of Roy.

Then as Buliwyf said, get a 460. They are top gear.

quote:

I may start with the 375 H&H and see where it takes me, but I must admit I am a big fan of Roy.

I doubt you are going to be that impressed with the 375HH after owning a 340 wby. It will have good resale, But; I dont expect there would be much difference in shooting challenge. You say you are not going to hunt big game with it. It sounds like you want a 460 wby. Forget the resale - life is too short. Not my cup of tea, but you are not me. Live a little.

You can search out a used gun. you should pay closer to the resale value that way. Should be a lot cheaper than dumping 3k into a new rifle.

I wonder what kind of varmint load you could work up with 300gr HP bullets in a 460?

I vote for the .416 Rigby!

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
I wonder what kind of varmint load you could work up with 300gr HP bullets in a 460?

About 10,000 fps

About as perfect a rifle battery anyone could ask for:

.460 Weatherby
.340 Weatherby
.240 Weatherby

If it ain't for hunting...by a .50BMG like a Barret. I have found an old soviet anti tank gun in 14,5 but the barrel is poked...if I can just nick one off the anti aircraft gun out at cleveland range....

IMHO, the next and most logical step up for you would be a .375 or a .416 of some stripe or other.

There's always room at the top of the power and recoil chart, if you want to go higher later.

Pick your poison, brother.

375 H&H, 458 Win Mag, 458 Lott for when you loose interest in them.

No Weatherby rifles, but 460 Wby cal. Then 500 A2, the 550's, and there's

the big bore creations by genius Ed Hubel [hubel 458 here on AR].

The 416 Ruger offers a lot, for not a lot of money. Rifles are not costly, loaded ammo is very reasonable in cost and if you want to reload the components are there as well. If you don't like it you won't lose much if anything when you go to sell it. I have one in the Alaskan model and am quite fond of it.

I say do the 460. 500gr at 2400-2500 is not bad to shoot. I used a 'mild' 450gr at 2465 load on deer this fall. I find even with the 460 I can easily run out of powder room, especially with barnes bullets. If you ever need to sell a big Weatherby the 460 I think is the easiest to sell and holds value. Mine is a '83-84 and I paid what probably was a new price for it then. I don't think a CZ will do that, but a few old BRNO's do.

You are right, CZ will not do that.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas...categoryId=SEARCH_gl

The above CZ SOLD for 1500. it is the same model, the american, I purchased new under $1000 less than a year ago. Note the stud on forearm. Thats 50% appreciation. You think a $3000, wby 460 will sell for $4500 used any time soon?. I see them listed 2200-2400 with scopes.

I see a lot more American CZ550 various calibers, $1200 and higher USED. Thats not holding values thats real appreciation. And some dont even have the dual crossbolt. Buyers dont know or dont care, going like hot cakes.

My suggestion to Quintus, is find a used 460Wby with nice scope for $2200. If necessary sell it later, asking $2400. And enjoy.

I have seen some reasonable 460s, but I just found a beaut of a .416wby that I may buy just because I can make money on it. As far as killing goes I would shoot anything on this side of the pond with a 300. That is why I'm just playin with a big gun. I do hunt alot, and I have shot some critters that are pretty big and heavy from stem to stern and always been overly impressed with the 300. It's just too much of a good thing. I am a firm believer in the theory that it is neither velocity nor energy/diameter, but shot placement that kills...to a point. Obviously spitballs don't work, but a properly placed bullet of quality construction is hard for most anything to overcome. Velocity just makes it easier to place those bullets at greater distance.
I am also interested now in a 416 Rigby in a Ruger #1. Any one used one?

I've had a Ruger #1 in .375 H&H for 25 years. It was the lowest priced .375 at the time. It has an old Redfield 1-4x scope. It is versatile and nice for lefthanders like me. It is a keeper, especially if you handload.

To add to that, I'm having a .450 Nitro Express double rifle built by Butch Searcy. That one will use only iron sights. That's enough power for me since I am not a PH.

The .450/400 3" is a great cartridge too. I hear Ruger is offering the #1 in both .450 and .450/400.

Ruger #1 in 458 Lott.

"Big bore" and "cannon breech" has a beautifully simple, yet sinister ring to it.

Smells fishy.I see it listed at 1500 usd but not sold.

I missed a .458 off the sale rack at Cabelas... for 800. Which is what I paid for my 416.

I went through the same process, but I wanted both a group 2 (.40 to .485 cal) and group 3 rifle (over 0.485 cal). I chose the 416 Rigby and the 505 Gibbs. I got the Gibbs first because a friend spotted an opportunity for me, and my Rigby is currently being built. If you only want one the 416 Rigby would be a good choice. Alternatively one of the 458s (Lott, Rigby, Dakota etc), would be good because of the tremendous selection of bullets available. A friend of mine has a 458 Lott, and he gets 2900 fps with 300gn hollow points. They blow rabbits to pieces. If you get one of them it could double as a varminter

I own the American Safari 458 Lott and the recoil doesn't bother me. It fits right into my
shoulder And of corse I talking about a standing
shot. On the bench I use a Sand bag because I have a bad shoulder.