Hi all, I'm about 3 months from decision time, and I just visited my gunsmith. I have a CZ Safari Classic in 375 H&H. He really liked the gun, is going to put a more subdued darker oil African style finish on the stock and recut the checkering. The rifle is already dual cross-bolted by CZ, glassbedded and has an extra recoil lug installed on the barrel by AHR amongst other things. He thought the stock was so nice and there would be a lot of work and cost in replacing the sights, barrel band etc, money that could be put towards an African hunt. My CZ Safari Classic in 375 H&H weighs 11 lbs with scope 10.25 lbs without.





He recommended 2 possible options (1 and 3) but I had spoken about option 2 earlier and he has the reamer.

1. Leave it as a 375 H&H (which I probably won't do lol), even though he showed me a very nice elephant and cape buffalo one of his customers had shot with a 375 H&H.

2. Rechamber to 375 Weatherby Magnum (which is moving up on my radar, I would really like to see what those 350g Woodleigh Protected Points will do at 2550 fps).

3. Have Clearwater reboring, rebore my rifle to 470 Capstick (which would mean I would shorten the barrel to 22"). He highly recommended LaBounty reboring (now clearwater) saying they were a good option if the current barrel shoots well which it does.

All of these options involve less work (and dollars) for my gunsmith, but I really appreciate him giving me honest and helpful advice.

Anyway I'm leaning towards the 375 Weatherby opton, due to cost, less recoil than the 475 Capstick (since the Capstick would be lighter than my 375 Weatherby due to losing 3" of barrel), and probably more useful for my North American hunting (elk, deer, and hopefully a big Alaskan Brown) as well as being enough gun for cape buffalo.

Regards,
Chuck

Just my 2 cents here, but I would really recommend shooting those calibers before you have any major work done.

The 375 H&H is a great caliber and has done just about everything anyone has ever asked it to do.

Recoil is pretty subjective, and those total recoil figures you see don't tell the whole story. The big component missing is recoil velocity. There are many calibers with a high total recoil, but because the recoil velocity is relatively low, the recoil is more like a push than a smack.

From what I know of the 375 Weatherby, it apparently was designed by the Marquis de Sade. It has a reputation as being perhaps THE most punishing caliber in terms of recoil. Not really because of the total recoil figure, but because all those foot pounds come screaming at your shoulder like a freight train.

If you're going that far up to a 475 Capstick, the rifle weight will play a big part in felt recoil. A rifle of about 7 to 8 pounds designed for a 375 H&H is not the optimal platform for a 475.

Hi Jim, are you sure you're not referring to the 378 Weatherby? The 375 Weatherby Magnum is really a 375 H&H improved (case capacity 90g) as opposed to the 378 Weatherby (case capacity almost 120g. My CZ Safari Classic weighs about 11 lbs with scope right now, about 10.25 lbs without.

Regards,
Chuck

Chuck, I don't own a 375 Weatherby, but I have fired a friend's reloads in his. I didn't find it intolerable nor even painful. It's a 375 with a little more oomph than an H&H. And yes, he loves it for the 350 and 380 grain bullets.

Thanks Wink, my CZ is pretty heavy for a 375 H&H so recoil is almost non-existent. I was kinda depressed about that when I first got it lol I can go to 375 Weatherby as a first step, then always rebore later if I'm still recoil deprived. Ray Atkinson has had great success on cape buffalo with the 350g Woodleighs at 375 H&H speeds and they're spec'd up to 2500 fps so it seems like a good match for the 375 Weatherby.

Regards,

Chuck

Chuck

Interesting dilemma. The options you mention all sound interesting.

I have to ask, though, why not convert to a .416 of some flavor? That would seem the next logical step up from your .375.

Or, given the money you plan to spend, why not just buy another CZ, this one in classic .404 Jeffery, .416 Rigby or 450 Rigby and refine that second rifle? Your current CZ .375 H&H seems a sweetheart.

I am very happy with the accuracy and the field performance of the 470 capstick. PErsonally I do not think you need the velocity of a 375 Wby unless you are trying to flatten the trajectory for 350+ yards shots.

Timberline, 416 Rem Mag would be the logical next step up, since it's based on the 375 H&H case like the 458 Lott and 470 Capstick. I'm not sure if that's enough of a step up to make the whole process worthwhile in my mind.

500 grains, if I do have it rebored to 470 Capstick, I'll need to have the barrel shortened to 22", what's your feeling on that? Is that too short for a 470 Capstick?

Rechambering my 375 H&H to 375 Weatheby is about $200, so it's by far the cheapest option with of course the smallest increase in performance. The nice thing about 375 Weatherby is you can shoot 375 H&H through it with a small decrease in performance. You can also fireform 375 Weatherby brass using 375 H&H loads.

Of course there's option 1, leave well enough alone ...



Chuck

Leave it marked as is and punch it out to Ackley improved. You get 375 Wby ballistics and can still shoot H&H in a pinch. Perhaps you can with the Wby too, but if it's remarked and you go to Africa you need Same marked Brass. Wby brass is typically more costly than Std H&H that's almost universally available from multiple manufacturers.

Any of the options you mention are good ones..you can't go wrong with any of them..Personally I would opt for a 416 Rem or a 404 Jefferys if you are the nostalgic type (I am)..

Firearms nostalgia is a thing some of us got, and it has no real substance from a practical standpoint.

If you're going to do anything, and I'd like to state for the record I think you should leave it as an H&H and just go hunting, I'd say do the Wby. You'll get a little more oomph out of the cartridge and could shoot 350 and 380gr bullets at higher velocity. The other benefit to doing the Wby over the Capstick is you can still use H&H ammo in a pinch.

The Capstick is cool, but you're going to pay through the nose to shoot it, and if your ammo gets lost in the bush, good luck finding some!

The other thing to consider is the cost. The Wby is a simple rechamber, the Capstick will require a full rebarrel (or rebore if there's enough meat) and is going to cost still more $$.

Thanks all, right now I'm going to leave it as it is, and decide in December whether to rechamber to 375 Wby or not. The 375 H&H certainly does have great traditional value and is a great cartridge.

Thanks again,

Chuck

Of course it is your rifle, and YOU are the one to satisfy! I personally would leave it 375H&H, and go hunting! The 375Wby is an answer to a question not asked, and will do noting more than flatten the trejectory about 2" at 200 yds, still that is a gain, but IMO, not worth the pain. The 475 Capstick will lighten your rifle considerably more than just the weight of the 2" of barrel, but the weight of the considerable steel cut out of the bore & grouves. The recoil of the 475 C will not be unbearable, but will be considerably more than the 375 H&H.

Of course those are logical suggestions, but since when has logic been applied to the building of personal firearms! They don't have to improve anything other than your happiness! With that in mind, I say do your thing, no matter what I, or anyone else has to say!

Thanks Mac, those logical suggestions are sometimes difficult to deal with lol. I guessed my rifle would be about 1/2 lb lighter if I rebored it to 470 Capstick, whick would make it a 10.5 lb rifle with scope 9.75 lb without. I'm sure a 500g bullet at 2300 or 2400 fps would get my attention! The recoil calculator says the recoil goes from 35.53 ft/lbs and 14.42 fps with my 11 lb. 375 H&H shooting 350g loads at 2350 fps to 67 ft/lbs and 20.27 fps with a 500g bullet at 2300 fps out of a 10.5 lbs 470 Capstick. Definitely something to think about.

We'll see, sometimes reason doesn't always win



Chuck

Well I got the verdict from Clearwater, my rear sight screw hole was too deep for a rebore to 470 Capstick, so a 375 H&H it stays until (if ever) I decide to send it to Krieger for a rebarrel. Probably for the best ...



Chuck

huh? there AINT a rear sight screw hole on a stock CZ.. and not a rear screw hole for a front sight, either.. in fact, on a stock CZ, there AINT a screw hole in the barrel..

i am confused....

I had to go back and look at the pic of the rifle again, and then it appears to have an after-market rear sight. Did the installation require drilling a hole. I would have thought there were sights availlable to fit the CZ dovetail. Think I will research this a bit because my CZ .505 has their 3-leaf express rear sight marked in increments of 100, 200 and 300. I've no need for a sight marked 200 and 300 on a .505. Only need a single leaf for mine but a .375 can easilly use sights regulated to 300 yards/meters. Rodney.

I had AHR put on an NECG Masterpiece rear sight when they did their CZ #1 upgrade , I'm guessing that was when the hole was drilled. Unfortunately Jim Dubell told me today that the screw hole that was tapped was too deep to rebore it at all. He said it definitely looked like it was done afterwards (not by CZ), since it wasn't blued there. He also said it was so deep that it was just within barrel wall tolerances for a .375

Chuck

That's a pity, but a 375 (either the H&H or the Weatherby) will do all you want it to do.
Having said that, my 470 Capstick is just plain fun!
Best of luck.

That's what I'm figuring Sambar, if I want to go bigger, I'll just rebarrel it to something in the .50 range ...



Chuck

Rechamber to .375 Weatherby.

That was my other choice, I think I will unless I rebarrel. Particularly since I shoot those big 350g Woodleighs out of my 375 H&H now. Another 200 fps on those would be something.

Thanks,

Chuck

quote:

2. Rechamber to 375 Weatherby Magnum (which is moving up on my radar, I would really like to see what those 350g Woodleigh Protected Points will do at 2550 fps).

If this is any impetus, there are a set of Redding .375 Weatherby dies available in the classifieds (by me, of course).

In that case, I'd say get the rechambering done.
If you are not happy (I'd guess that you will be) you can always rebarrel.