The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores .416 vs. .375 - but from another angleGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I have noticed there are a lot of really neat .416s around for sale, for good prices, whereas the .375 H&Hs seem to go fast, be fewer in quality and are more expensive. Same for the 458s vs. .375s, I believe. Another reason to step up to the .40s.... ______________________________ "Are you gonna pull them pistols,...or whistle Dixie??" Josie Wales 1866 | ||
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The only real need for a .40+ is for buff or elephant. How many of those are whacked each year? And the recoil is a bunch more than a 375. More cheap .40+'s. Yeah, it figgers. ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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The .416 Whatever is an outstanding caliber. Ian Natchens was a big fan of DRs on Ele but thought the .416 incredible if a bolt gun had to be used. It will do anything a .375 will but will do it better. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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really? you do? you might keep better tabs ... opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I also agree that the .416 is a great caliber having owned a model 70 Winchester in .416 Remington magnum. It is a bigger hammer than the .375 H&H magnum but I disagree that the .416 will do everything better than the .375. My .416 would not shoot nearly as flat as my .375 and is not nearly as good for plains game as the .375. I load 270 grain TSX bullets to 2800 fps in the .375 and it shoots as flat as my .338 WM with 225 grain bullets and as flat as my .300 WM with 200 grain bullets. I could never do that with 350 grain bullets at close to 2600 fps out of the .416. The .375 recoil is much more managable than the hot loaded .416 which allows better shot placement on game further out. But then again, this is my personal experience. Your mileage may vary. I personally feel the .375 is the more versatile round but would much prefer the .416 for buff and ele up close. To tell the truth, I'd prefer something larger than the .416 for up close and personal but it's about my upper limit in recoil. Thanks, jfm | |||
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I have a couple of .416s, and will no doubt move right down to them, but not until retirement beckons me near. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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jfm, 1. have you gotten the news that the Rigby and Wbee (416's)have within one or two percent case capacity yet? So, if the Wbee will shoot 400gr bullets at or just over 2700fps, would you think either will shoot a 350gr over 2800? 2. IIRC, since January 1st, I have not seen a Rigby for sale here. I have seen at least seven 375's. CZ (now), Remington (now), Winchester (now), and I believe at least one RSM this calendar year. Not trying to be cross, just reading the classifieds down thru page 10. regards, Rich | |||
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Where!?! ____________________________ If you died tomorrow, what would you have done today ... 2018 Zimbabwe - Tuskless w/ Nengasha Safaris 2011 Mozambique - Buffalo w/ Mashambanzou Safaris | |||
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As I stated, this has been my experience. Your mileage may vary. My .416 Remington was definitely hot loaded at 2600 fps with a 350 grain bullet. I'm guessing yours was not. Gary, I didn't do any math to figure out the trajectories as I'm from Missouri and didn't take that class. I do know that 250 yard targets showed my .375 as a flatter shooting round than the .416 just by where the bullets printed. Remember, each gun is a different animal. Idaho, I'm well aware that the .416 Rigby is the same case as the Weatherby and that it can probably push 400 grain bullets at 2700 fps. I'm not so great at hitting game way out there with guns smacking me with that kind of recoil. The .375 is better for me in that I'm more accurate with it's lighter recoiling 270 grain bullet. I figure I don't really need a 350 grain bullet for plains game anyway. Thanks, jfm | |||
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I agree that the 416 will do everything better but at the cost of increased recoil. I however have not noticed any difference in recoil from a 416 rem and 375 H&H but my 416 wby seems to have a bit more noticable recoil. I do not think anyone would regret choosing either caliber. | |||
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Im the same. The 416's and 375's seem about the same to me unless the 416 has a Weatherby behind it. It packs a wallop. Definately needs the brake installed at the bench and ear plugs and ear protectors and maybe even a lead sled around  . | |||
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One nice thing about the 416 is that it smacks big things harder that the 375 and using it on smaller game well I never had one get up and say you killed me to much! The 375 is a great round also you really cann't go wrong with either one. | |||
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I have 338's and a 416 didn't see a need for a 375. But if a nice 375 comes along at the right price I will most likely buy it. | |||
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Having owned 3 different rifles in 375 H&H (Win 70, RSM, Kimber BG89) and 2 different 416's (Rem & Rigby)I think I can offer some input. You can never go wrong with having a 375 H&H lying around regardless of what you hunt. I find it is just plain helpful when your not sure. It's really not needed here in CONUS where I hunt but I can tell you first hand walking around in the High Elk county I hunt it seems to get the job done. That said I carry and hunt with my Ruger Safari Mag in 416 Rigby a whole lot more. I just plain like the way the rifle feels and it shoots sub 1 MOA. I don't get or take many +300 yard shots so both drop about the same in the yardage I hunt. I have yet to hunt africa but I feel more confident with my 416 at the present time. The other nice thing about the 375 H&H is you can talk most people into shooting it (ie my 75 yo Dad) he took one look at the 416 and said thats too darn big to shoot. I really like them both for different reasons. At present I'm shooting 260grn NP's in my 375 H&H and 400grn Hornadys in the 416. So I've widened the gap a little in terms of uses. To put it another way I don't own any other ready to go hunting rifle between 325WSM and my 375 H&H and don't see a need for one. (my hunting partner got me on this 9.3mm RUM wildcat project and I have yet to see it as a replacemnt for my 375 H&H) Brad  | |||
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. ..jfm. you should try the 300 gr. Bullets @ around 2900 f p s from your 416 Rem. The deer with most of its head gone in my avatar I shot with my 416 Rem. Custom CZ 550. A kneeling shot around 80 or 90 yards away down the beach. 300 gr Barnes X bullet molybdenum tumbled. Max load of H4895 Fed215 primer the same load flattens brown bear with body shots. Not c n s. Yes the 375 is a great round. But the 416 have a real dramitic affect on brn bear and have a fine trajectory for up to 350 yards or better. .If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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The key words, considering recoil are: - physically:lower peak of pressure during a longer time OR higher peak of pressure during a shorter time - empirically: "push" ot "Kick" In my owm experience (weight : 110 pounds, ancient swimmer and boxer), with 375 HH, 416 RM, 450 3.25 NE: - 375 : light kick no problem to manage - 416 RM: rather hard kick, not so easy to manage, requires an efficient muzzle break - 450 3.25 NE: push, no problem to manage | |||
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I've had one in the classifieds for awhile now a very nice .416 Rigby with Leupold scope CZ 550 and a bunch of stuff to go with it at a reasonable price. I've had 797 looks but no takers. If you want a look at it it's near bottom on page one. ".416 Rigby for sale CZ 550 Safari Magnum With scope & Rings and more" | |||
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It is my goal to own at least one of every caliber. I have a 416 Rem Mag, 416 Rigby and 375 Ruger. I plan on adding even larger calibers. The 375 Ruger was by far the most affordable rifle and easiest to find. I have 250 TTSX doing 2900 fps in it and that is very flat. I also have 350 gr Speer Hot Cores doing 2800 fps with the rigby. I shot that Rigby load 32 times at the range a few weeks ago and only stopped because I ran out of ammo for it. I cannot imagine limiting myself in doing something I love so much. I do have calibers I like more than others but like them all so much that I want more. If I ever hit the lottery my personal collection would need its own building.  | |||
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Like a lot of us I went up and down in calibers. But the 416 RM converted me too. I had a beautiful custom 375 but it didnt shoot as well as I wanted. And it was on a Mauser action right at the time I was going Winchester all the way. To be fair to the 375 I didn't have nearly as good of a loading set up to work with it more. After I got My Model 70 in 416 Rem Mag, I found it didnt beat me up with recoil any more than my Sako 338 Win Mag had been doing for years. So I went to the two rifle battery of 7mmRem Mag and 416 both in Model 70s. While I prefer the 416 with the 400 grain bulets for both all around and heavy work , with the newer bullets like the Barnes TSX for the 416 it can cover both the 338 and 375's for my use. | |||
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That is the best answer. Because I reality, in the hands of a man who knows how to shot them, neither is better in any way than the other. I have several in 375 caliber, both factory chambering and wildcats I have developed myself. I also have several in 416 calibers, as well as other calibers like 404, 458, 600 and a 700. But for hunting, I use a 375/404 exclusively. Kills them all without any drama, from klipsringers to elephants. | |||
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Agree with Saeed, but my "go to" is a .416 Rem. Play with them all, but pick one for work. Any of the .40's will do it all. Someone once said, "Beware of the man with only one rifle." | |||
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Everyone has different thresholds of recoil tolerance. For most of my life a 340 Weatherby was my largest rifle. Then bought/made some 375's and then a 416,458 Win Mag,458 Lott and 470 nitro. You begin to become proficient with the Lott and the 470NE and the 416 Rem is a pussy cat. I took a 416 Rem and a 470 NE to Africa. Shot my buffalo at less than 25 yds with my 470 NE (very exciting) but everything else with my 416. Both guns met or exceeded my expectation however they should have as I practiced with them for years prior to my trip. I knew both the rifles capabilities like the back of my hand. Complete faith and confidence. Tailored every hand load and tightened ever screw on the guns. Confidence means everything! EZ | |||
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I find my CZ550 in 416Rigby is more accurate than my 375's and will shoot justas flat or flatter, depending on the load. Certainly no complaints about the 416Rigby from me. | |||
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I have both...well a 404 loaded a little warmer than the classic loadings...and the recoil isn't much different IMO. I like the 375 for Plains game and cats, but the 404 for anything bigger. I also have a 500 Jeff and that will get your attention, but still not bad. Key is practice. Gary | |||
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The ability to shoot 430gr bullets in the 416 Rigby and 404 Jeffrey are another point to consider. I own no .40s but friends own a few of these calibres. A friend of mine who shoots big stuff regularly due to his chosen profession used a 416 Rigby and 430 grainers for a long time and swears by them. I cannot see a 375 be it 300, 350 or 380gr doing that job as well. | |||
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Saeed might prove you wrong as he has had great success with the 375. Michael 458 has also proven that light for caliber monometals out perform cup and core lead bullets because they don't shed weight. I like to look to the modern bullets instead of older designs. I like old muscle cars but cannot deny that new ones outperform the 60's model icons. I'm sure this has happened many times since smokeless powder was invented and things like steel jacketed bullets came along. My personal preference is monometal even though they are long for weight. I do admit that the Swift A-frame is my favorite lead based soft. And one cannot deny the benefits of bore riders like GSC customs. Now if only we had a bore rider with 90% tungsten....that would really be interesting. Just a thought. | |||
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I've also had good results with the 375 (don't own a .40). There is also the heavy for calbre discussion there and I've had good results from 350gr in the 375. However larger bore diameter with a good bullet generally means a larger wound channel which usually means quicker incapacitiation. And generally.more momentum. Of couse a well placed 375 is better than a poorly placed .40. But slightly imperfext shots with both should show a discrepancy. Anyway... I fear I'm drifting off the original topic so I'll leave that there.... | |||
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I don't like to keep tracks of how many animals I have shot, but I can assure you that several hundreds of dangerous game animals; elephants, lion, leopard, buffalo, hippo - have fallen dead, mostly with one shot, to the 375 several of us have been using. Anyone, I repeat, anyone, who actually thinks that one caliber actually kills better than another, is daydreaming. The 375 is the minimum caliber by law for thick skinned dangerous game animals. If t wasn't, I would be happy to hunt anything on this earth with a 30/404 instead of 375/404. | |||
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There are two keys to dropping game quickly "shot placement and proper bullets". This makes caliber a moot point. Elgin Gates killed dangerous game including large bull elephants with a 300 Weatherby _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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This is the key...  Jim  "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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375 will do on anything Anything bigger is just our nostalgia from reading lots of African stories " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores .416 vs. .375 - but from another angle
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