The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores CZ 458 LottGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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From reading the posts, it seems that this is a highly recommended rifle. I called CZ and they informed me that if I were to get the African rifle, not the American safari, then they would convert the 458 win to the Lott for 150. The guy that I talked to said they contracted all of there 458 win mags out to local gunsmiths to have them converted to Lott, which would explain the crossing out of 458 win on the barrels. The question that I have is would I be better off to get the American Safari in 458 Lott or the African Safari and have it converted into the Lott by their smiths or let my smith convert it to the Lott? Can anyone tell me the advantage of having the straight stock over the slightly curved stock? "A true man of honor feels humbled himself when he cannot help humbling others." -Robert E. Lee | ||
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If you could, it would be a good idea to shoulder both the straight and slightly curved stock to see if it fits you. You have to decide which stock design is best, you are going to be doing the shooting. | |||
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Christopher, Welcome. Some folks find that the straight-combed stock transmits less felt recoil. My suggestion would be to get the gun that fits you best, which as Kenneth has already mentioned, calls for you to 'try them on'. George  | |||
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I was reading the other post about the new 458 Lott and saw the part about the stock splintering. Is this a real problem with the CZ rifles? Would either one of the stock designs lessen this or is splintering rare? I appreciate the input. "A true man of honor feels humbled himself when he cannot help humbling others." -Robert E. Lee | |||
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A straight stock delivers all recoil straight back into the shooter. In a lightly recoiling rifle, this is okay because it virtually eliminates muzzle rise so you can get back on target sooner. But in a rifle with heavy recoil, the last thing you want is to have to soak up all the recoil yourself. A bent stock directs much more of the recoil into muzzle rise so you feel less of it in your shoulder. Also, on most people, a straight stock does not fit fully into the shoulder with an instinctive mount. So, unless you deliberately put it in your shoulder where it belongs and then snake your neck down and crawl along the stock (a la Jack O’Connor) the full recoil is concentrated in a small area in your shoulder which makes recoil feel even worse. A stock with the proper amount of drop (bend) at the heel fits completely in your shoulder with a quick, natural mount and brings the express sights or low-mounted scope up to your eyes so you can keep your head straight and shoot like a man. Castoff (which the CZ, unfortunately, does not have)is also important, as it directs some of the recoil away from your cheek. The English and Europeans figured out how to build stocks for heavy-recoiling rifles long ago. American so-called stockmakers never have. | |||
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Welcome Aboard, You might look at something else. I don't know what you will be charged for the CZ but they have gone up lately.$750. to $800 I think. You either have to add recoil lug bed and crossbolt. Some say Full bedding and 2 crossbolts. As already stated a good replacement stock. The Factory stock will splinter without the work. I have always shot straight stocks for the very reason interboat stated. Add up your cost, I DID, then I found a good deal on a Ruger RSM and went that way. Semper Fi WE BAND OF BUBBAS STC Hunting Club | |||
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The cz american stock, per CZ, is their least breaking stock. Interesting deal, but it turns out the armerican pattern works for them... or people have learned to bed these first. interboat, For some movies of heavy recoiling shots, click on my website link in my signature and browse through the 550 express stuff. You'll need broadband to get the movies. I am the bigger guy shooting it...715gr at 2175 in an 11# rifle. I happen to think, on heavy recoiling rifles (talking 100+lb-ft stuff) less drop is far better, assuming the rifle fits you.. the 577 nitro at 14.5# kicks FAR worse than a 585 nyati at 10.5, and the nyati is sending the same bullet 300fps faster (2050 vs 2350). Straight back is the ONLY way to control a very heavy kicking rifle and recover. Minimum drop to see the sights. The reason british rifles have more drop is the european shooting stance of head far more upright than americans do, and a totally different point of contact. Bent rifles kick more, it's simple physics.. if you have a recoil pad of say 5 sq/in. If the recoil comes STRAIGHT back, you maintain most of that patch (just like a tire) .. if your rifle has a big drop (over 1") as the rifle torques UP the pad reduces in surface area contacting your shoulder, but the back force remains then same, resulting in a sharper FELT recoil. Think about it.. a 30/30 in a winchester or marlin lever gun (lots of drop) kicks FAR worse than the same weight 308 bolt gun that has more recoil, justdoesn't feel as bad. jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Gene, you tell us.. your 458 lott rugers weigh within 1/2 of pound of each other.. which one kicks worse, the RSM or the #1? jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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More to it than that! You need a proper barrel mounted recoil lug, not the CZ junk and a effective steel beeding of the action lug and barrel lug. Otherwise it's split city in less than 50 rds. The caliber conversion is trivial and could be done by hand with a 458 Lott reamer without a belt. I've done a bunch of these and so far no problems. Follow my recipe exactly.-Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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Thanks for the welcomes. Would it be wise to replace the stock with a Accuracy Innovations stock that would have the aluminum chasis that is pillared or have the CZ stock redone? Or is there another type of wood stock that would be recommended for this? "A true man of honor feels humbled himself when he cannot help humbling others." -Robert E. Lee | |||
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While I like the #1 it kicks alot more (no pun) than the RSM. The RSM, straight stock, kicks less and is back on target a bunch faster. I said before, I shoot only straight stocks. I like #1, got a good price, so bought it. IMHO the #1 should be at or below 300H&H -375H&H at most. I have shot both Lotts, same day, and the straighter the stock the better. I have been to Europe and they shoot different, not worse, different. It may work for them, not for me. The guy who sold me the #1 shot it with 2 pads. I need to point out the #1 has a 1" Decelerator Pad and the RSM a Ruger factory pad. As I said, Look at the Ruger RSM in 458 Lott. Cost a little more but I love that Rifle. Semper Fi WE BAND OF BUBBAS STC Hunting Club | |||
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PS If you are hunting something that will or wants to KILL you, the LAST thing you want is your point of aim on the 2nd shot to be the north star. You will not care about anything but the 2nd, 3rd shot etc. Read on the forum,some have been there. On A DGR Recovery time can mean everything. Your life. Semper Fi WE BAND OF BUBBAS STC Hunting Club | |||
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Jeff -- you can do a .550 Magnum on a CZ 550, correct?? I will be sending you a PM....... "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Christopher, It is amazing to see this mystery-physics repeated all the time. A straight stock is going to have less apparent recoil and less muzzle rise after the shot. Video proves the muzzle rise bit. As most suggest, it is necessary to get any of them bedded to keep the stock from splitting. Some split and some don't without bedding but it is hard to tell whether one will or won't. It is going to cost either way. If it splits at some point throw it away and get a fiberglass stock (McMillan, etc.(?)) which is what they should be in the first place! ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Sure enough.. pm right back Gene, just wanted to check on that.. sure seemed to kick a lot HIGHER and harder (#1) jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Sir, I have also done a few of theese conversasions, and agree - no problems, but I am not sure I understand your need for a reamer withouth the belt? Can you be more spesific on that? Thanks, Bent Fossdal Reiso 5685 Uggdal Norway | |||
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Brent, if you have a "conversion" reamer, that is, a cutting reamer without the belt being sharpened.. which means you run it into a 458 win chamber, without changing headspace. jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Hm...this must be a language problem or some other stupid misunderstanding... The way I do it is to use a standard .458 Lott reamer with a belt, and ream the chamber until the belt on the reamer fits the belt on the original win chamber. Of course, without the belt one is sure not to change headspace, wich with an original CZ barrel means set the barrel back one thread and start over...but...why would I do that? I stop reaming when the chamber is done? Bent Fossdal Reiso 5685 Uggdal Norway | |||
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Chris If you are anywhere close, you are welcome to shoot both and go from there. Gene Semper Fi WE BAND OF BUBBAS STC Hunting Club | |||
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My first 416 CZ laminate stock split. If you aren't going to subject the stock to inclement weather the standard wood stock is okay. If you plan on taking it to Alaska get the laminate stock. In either case bed the action and float the barrel. If the standard wood is what you get, minimum of two crossbolts. I love my CZ 416 Ribgy, even if it weighs a ton. I am espeically fond of the set trigger. Ruger is also in IMO a class rifle (I have one of these also), but I believe they don't have adjustable triggers or a set trigger. Just more food for thought to clutter your brain. | |||
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Bent, I don't think there is a language barrier, but a misunderstanding of this specialized tool. The no belt reamer is made specifically for re-chambering 458 win mags w/o removing the barrel from the action. Just put the reamer on an extension and run it in by hand. Crude, but effective. I think the larger bores tollerate more generous dimensions before accuracy goes in the tank. My first 458 Lott had a very generous chamber and throat, yet it would put 3 shots into a 1 1/2" group at 100 with iron sights. Couldn't ask for more than that. __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
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OK, I see. Please don't take me wrong on this one, I was just seeking information. I don't do this often enough to get spesial tools for the job. Besides, for polishing the chamber after the reaming I really want to put the barrel up in my lathe, so I guess I will keep to my standard procedure. But thanks, everyone, for the information. Bent Fossdal Reiso 5685 Uggdal Norway | |||
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Bent, it also can be used in the lathe. If the 458 win has proper headspace, we don't see a reason to change that, as it's the same for the lott. so, it is less trouble. jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Yea, I understand that, but thanks again, jeffe. Since we are doing this to save time, would it not be good to have a reamer with a belt , were the belted part did not ream? Then it would stop reaming at the exact point and one did not have to spend time measuring or looking for a mark? Actally, a stopper should be very easy to make, just a ring with a set-screw, fastened 1/1000 inch out on the belt. The ring would hit the barrel 1/1000 of an inch before the belt should start reaming! Heck, I'll make one tomorrow! Bent Fossdal Reiso 5685 Uggdal Norway | |||
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You got me little confused Robgunguilder. I have 2 CZ 550 Safari and each have 1 recoil lug machined into receiver and as second recoil lug is block with 2 recoil lugs engaging slot in the barrell. How many more or better are they on Winchester or Ruber. I would like you to enlighten me. Thanks 450 RIGBY | |||
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I have a couple oc cz's with the safri stock and I lik the way they feel, they feel lively and point very well with the nice slim schnabel forend. | |||
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I believe they are trying to describe just that, a reamer that has the belt but with no cutting edge. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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Christopher, if you considering changing to a .458 Lott, why not go all the way and convert to the .458 Express (.458 3"). This calibre was developed in South Africa for Big Game Hunting and is in my opinion superior to the Lott. If someone is interested I can post more detail info on this calibre Addicted to recoil | |||
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[Pole! I'm not too good on typewriters!! Just interested in what this .458 Express has over the .458 "Pillar Of Salt"! | |||
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The .458 Express was developed in South Africa as an affordable African Big Bore suitable for general hunting including the Big Five. Fellow shooters should bear in mind that due to the local currency exchange rate classic Big bores has become all but impossible to afford locally. My own .458 Express is built on a BRNO ZKK 602 action. This action is particularly suitable for the conversion as no Gunsmithing is required to accomodate the .458 Express cartridge. In essence the .458 Express is a .458 Win Mag "long" as the case length of the .458 Express is 76mm compared to the 63.5mm of the .458 Win Mag. (The 3" (76mm) is probably due to South Africa's history with Great Brittan and their Imperial system of measuring) With the local powder available in South Africa numerous problems were encountered with loads necessary to achieve velocities in excess of 2000 fps (500gr projectiles). By increasing the case volume 500gr projectiles can now be launched at velocities round about 2400 fps without any pressure problems being encountered. I personally prefer a 450gr Barnes "x" propelled at 2450fps. This combination allows me to utilise my Express as an all rounder effective on plains game of any size including Eland. The typical hunting distances encountered is rarely in excess of 250m which is comfortably within the capabilities of the 450gr 2450 fps combination. The very same combination is more than adequite for dangerous game including Cape buff. To my knowledge there are approximately 175 .458 Express rifles being built to date with the number still growing. The process to convert your .458 Win Mag to the Express is affordable an not time consuming. PMP our localAmmo manufacturer supply the brass, being virgin .458 and .375 H&H cases prior to being cut to size. The cost approx $1.00 apiece. Last but not least the .458 Express is a beautifull straight wall cartridge with an OAL of almost 104mm! Addicted to Recoil | |||
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Yep, it is a real problem. My .416 Rigby split the stock within 100 rounds. If you are ordering it from CZ, have them glass bed it (SKU# 19410). I think they charge only $100 for the service and then you are assured that you keep it together. Of course mine wears a McMillian stock now so it's not a problem.  BTW, the only complaint I have with the CZ rifles is the BLUING......it rusts more easily than rifles with American bluing. Believe me, I KNOW.  "They who would give up an essential Liberty for Temporary Security, deserves neither Liberty or Security." ---Benjamin Franklin "SIC SEMPER TYRANNUS" | |||
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