Looking for opinions please?

I have a CZ 550 in 416 Rigby.

I am reloading them to a COL 3.719 (woodleigh 410 grain RNSN). Feeding is fine but on the closing of the bolt (down) there is a tightness or stiffness that although mild does not feel right.

Yesterday I loaded some to 3.717 and most fed like butter and the bolt close was easy without any stiffness. However after about 8 rounds down range some of the stiffness returned.

I would like to rectify this so any ideas are appreciated.

Regards

Stu

Got an OAL gauge? Check that the chamber doesn't have a short throat.

Also could be a headspace, or maybe resizing problem. Maybe you need to bump the shoulder back another couple thousandths.

Since it starts it after a few rounds, maybe the chamber is getting sooted up after a few.

Just some ideas to throw at you. Could be a number of different issues. Good luck with it.

David

Have you trimmed your cases?

I had a similar problem with my .416 Rigby

So, I did an experiment, I loaded a dummy round with a case whose length was at the maximum, and I found that the rifle would not chamber it all!

I found another case which was near the max case length, I trimmed it back to the recommended specs, and made a dummy round of it, and it chambered just fine!

So, the moral of the story is, measure your cases before loading them, and make sure they are all of uniform length.

Since a began attentively monitoring the case length, I have had zero issues with feeding.

For whatever reason, CZ rifles seem to be VERY picky about this. Perhaps one of the fine gunsmiths who frequent this section of the forums can elaborate.

Probably one of three things.

1. CZ's headspace is usually tight from the factory.
2. 416 Rigby shoulder's need to be moved back
3. Trim the case

Thanks for the reply

x2mosg I was thinking the chamber may be a little short as I have heard other guys having their chambers polished because of feeding issues, thanks. I am full length sizing per the dies.

HogLeg458 Yes all cases are trimmed correctly, infact this last lot were freshly done. I am thinking it is all about chamber length.

dirklawyer Would the tight neadspace be the same as a tight chamber and would a good polish do the trick?

What is involved in moving back the sholders of the case?

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Do you guys think when seating the projectile that I may be placing strain on the shoulder and though very very slight there maybe a small bulge in the case or shoulder (not noticable to the eye) causing the problem?

Thanks again, all opinions are appeciated

Regards

Stu

If it is ok empty (no round being chambered)
Its a reloading issue. If factroy ammo is being used its a tight chamber.

JD

I'm sure there are better ways to measure the right OAL for your particular rifle / bullet combination, but here's how I do it.

First I put the same bullet I plan to use in the chamber so it just touches the lands. One of my sons holds it gently in place with a dowel. Then I put my one piece coated cleaning rod in from the muzzle end and mark with a pencil at the muzzle. I then load a dummy round and chamber it and continue to seat it down until it's 0.10" from the lands. I make sure it chambers and extracts with no issues.

If that doesn't work then you need to set the shoulder back a bit as suggested.

Hopefully that will fix it. Be careful because if you're seated too far out or headspace is wrong, it can be dangerous.

Regards,

Chuck

stuey

My own CZ had "issues" with the shape of the front of the bullet (ogive). Had to seat 400-grain monometal RHINO banded solids deep into the case to get them off the lands [OAL 3.470"]. No problems with any other bullets, including 410-grain Woodleigh/Federal factory loads [OAL 3.690"].

Try other bullets and OAL's. (I choose mine to crimp at the cannelure in the heavy calibers, along with full to compressed loads. In the case of the RHINO solids, no crimp.)

I think Chuck375 is correct. That is how I set mine up. Close the bolt on an empty chamber and do the cleaning rod thing. Then the bullet in the chamber, and do the rod thing again. you can easily set the oal within .001-.002" in ten minutes.

Rich
Buff Killer

I'll bet your buldging the shoulder slightly when seating the bullet. Does a resized, primed cases chamber easily? If you then seat and crimp a bullet does it now stick a little? If so the answer is not to try and screw with your chamber but rather modify your reloading technique so this doesnt happen. Try lubing the case neck with imperial sizing lube and see it that helps.-Rob

Yes,
Sounds like a bulged shoulder.
Take some of the hard-chambering ammo and run it into the full length resize die (with deprimer removed of course) and see if that irons out the shoulder to make them easy-chambering.

The .416 Rigby 45-degree shoulder is prone to this.
Tight neck when seating the bullet may may produce the bulge, as Rob says.

The old-style Swift A-Frame had an ogive that would not chamber in my tight-throated Ruger RSM unless it was deep-seated with the cannelure below the case mouth.

However, my internet tricorder readings indicate this does sound more like a bulged shoulder.
A slightly bigger neck sizing button might be the cure, or lubing the inside of the case neck
before seating the bullet.

Live long and prosper.

This tendency of the .416 Rigby to bulge its shoulder could be easily resolved.
Remember the ".416 Ruger" that was made up for Bill Ruger's birthday? It was a Ruger No.1.
I think it had a 20 or 30-degree shoulder, with the base to shoulder distance the same as the .416 Rigby ... this was long before the current smaller-cased .416 Ruger, which is a .416/.375 Ruger.

Giving the .416 Rigby a less-steep shoulder would also increase the case capacity, as well as lessen the tendency to bulged shoulder.
The .416 Rigby has more than enough neck to give up some neck length to a less steep shoulder, with same shoulder to base distance.

Sort of like the .395 Tatanka, which is a .395/.416 Rigby 20-degree.
Sort of like a Lapua Long.
The ample case body taper of the .416 Rigby is maintained in the .338 Lapua, but the shoulder angle is decreased to 20 degrees,
for slick feeding in military application, full-auto, etc.

Yes, the .416 Rigby is flawed.
A 45-degree shoulder angle is a bad idea.

++ on Rob and RIP.

Check for a buldged shoulder first. I have done this on my Rigbys a couple of times. If you don't trim cases uniformly and/or get too aggressive with the crimp you will have a hard bolt chambering or in one of my less than stellar hunting experiences they may chamber fine but on firing be the bolt will be very hard to open. Keep the cases trimmed and apply a decent not a deforming crimp!

If this doesn't help I would go to stage 2 and check headspacing, etc. Good luck and have fun with a really nice, versatile round!

John

do a chamber cast with cerrosafe if you really ain't sure.
a good gunsmith can do it cheap enough if you are afraid of messing something up.
but the cast will tell you the shape of your shoulder the head space and your neck length.
remember every gun is a wildcat if you are gonna reload for it and get the most from it.

Many thanks gents, great input and food for thought.

I will try some of the sugested ideas and report back my results.

It is interesting that the "correct" COL is spot on with the canular give or take a few thou.

I have never used lube to seat bullets before, obviously the crimp (a Lee 416 rem crimp machined to fit the Rigby) will stop any movement after the fact.

Once again many thanks for the time and the input, very well done.

Regards

Stu

I think I have nailed it!

Fed recently fired cases into chamber, no worries no sweat. Bolt closed as it should, felt and sounded great.

I then went and full length sized that same case and then fed it into the rifle. Bingo! Immediate tight bolt to close.

Both times the case was well under the max allowed length.

I then full length sized several more cases with the same result.

Now before I throw these dies back at the shop I bought them at........ is there an adjustment I can do to the die in order to correct the problem?

All input appreciated

Cheers

Stu

Still sounds like your pushing back the shoulder. How did you set your dies? Move the die up a 1/4 turn( or less) at a time till your sticking cases stop. Test with once fired cases! Lock your die at that point.-Rob

easy way to size

FIRED brass
turn out your dies a full turn
take a sharpie/marker and mark the entire neck
resize and see where the line is removed down to.

turn dies in. remember, these are 14 thread, so one turn is .0714, and a quarter turn is .0178 ...
repeat till theres just barely any marker left on the neck.

Rob, my thoughts exactly. I have not touched the die since I bought the set, just given them a clean.

So are you talking about moving the whole die up, or the adjustments on the top of the die?

jeffeosso If I do this how does the shoulder (the problem) get to be sized? Or is it a case of the fire formed shoulder is the way to go?

I have a DG hunt comming so I want these babies feeding like butter.

Many thanks gents

Stu

Thanks again

Stu

Incidently when sizing I have found the upward motion of the press (lifting the die off the case) to be VERY stiff and only a great amount of lube inside the neck assists.

Part of the problem?

Stu

if you aren't fully sizing the neck, you shouldn't then be touching the shoulder.

what dies are you using?

use MINK OIL or imperial sizing wax, of one shot lube ... one shot sprays nicely into the dies!

First clean the insides of your sizing die thoroughly then Adjust your die by moving the body up 1/8-1/4 turn at a time till your no longer getting sticky cases. Then move the depriming rod down till it just pops the primers out. It is also possible you have a neck sizing ball which holds the depriming pin that is too large or has a burr on it that is causing the shoulder of the case to buldge on the depriming stroke or even possibly on the upwards stroke.. But lets sort it out one step at a time. It sounds like your shellholder/die set up is over camming too much. Moving the die body upwards should fix this.-Rob

Cheers guys

Going to put this to this to the test tomorrow.

Best Regards

Stu

Gents

Took the die down to the local guru's.

End result, the die is going back to the factory for opinion and replacement.

Thank you for all your opinions and assistance

Regards

Stu

lee 416 rigby dies at 25 or so on midway.. ive' seen them under 20 bucks.. you might get these as a spare

A friend of mine got this 30/06 that was real hard to close the bolt with a round but the more he shot it the easer it got and now he has no problem. I would guess he has fired a couple
hundred rounds before he got it broke in.

Thanks gents

Best regards

Stu