Gentlemen is it possible to make a .470-Capstick into a .470-Mbogo caliber without a lot of "Smith work"?

The .470-Capstick is a model 70 Winchester.

No-Rob

possible? yes.. economical? no .. buy mrc PH or a cz in 416 rigby and rebarrel at mcgowen

Is the boltface equal to the Rigby? Would it work from a .375 hh on the cz?
Frank

Frank, its a rigby bolt face... and would work, with work, from a hh sized casehead ...

nd even a rebore

Why? Is a 500g bullet at 2400 fps not enough?

My thought has to be due to lower pressure, and the ability to go heavy bullet when neaded. Yes, 2400 for a 500 gr. is great but why not a 600 at that velocity.
Frank

on the mythical 500gr at 2400 .. ONLY in winchesters oversized barrels, with nil rifling is that a safe target. see terminal bullet performance on the 470 capstick re NIL rifling engagement.

can turn into a 470 AccRel, btw.

if you want the mbogo--- which started wildcatting for me... sell the winchester and buy a cz in 416... send out to be rebored to .475, or have mcgowen make you a barrel, and you will have the perfect bigbore

Chuck 375, I would like more power is all and I thought the .470-Mogobo would be a better round on buff. My Capstick does 2290 with a 500 grn bullet! I would like to hit the 2450fps area with a 500 grn bullet.

the 470mbogo is loafing at 2500fps ..

quote:

Originally posted by Blue Dog:
Chuck 375, I would like more power is all and I thought the .470-Mogobo would be a better round on buff.

You could impress your friends and fellow posters if you learned to spell Mbogo (Swahili for "buffalo").

My understanding is that the Mobogo is its Detroit cousin.

That still leaves the definition of "Mogobo" open.

That's as far as I'm takin' it...

Gosh Xausa! I am sooooo sorry that I have offended your A$$, with my spelling mistake. I never went to school, to learn how to speak that lingo you mentioned. I never tried to impress people either. My friends take me for what I am, as they are true friends and not make believers who go around judging other folks.

The school I did get a diploma from was called the school of "hard knocks". Actually it is called toeing the mark, if you get my drift! Now try pissing up a rope next time you must relieve yourself my dear boy.

quote:

Gosh Xausa! I am sooooo sorry that I have offended your A$$, with my spelling mistake. I never went to school, to learn how to speak that lingo you mentioned. I never tried to impress people either. My friends take me for what I am, as they are true friends and not make believers who go around judging other folks.

The school I did get a diploma from was called the school of "hard knocks". Actually it is called toeing the mark, if you get my drift! Now try pissing up a rope next time you must relieve yourself my dear boy.

quote:

Originally posted by Blue Dog:
Chuck 375, I would like more power is all and I thought the .470-Mogobo would be a better round on buff. My Capstick does 2290 with a 500 grn bullet! I would like to hit the 2450fps area with a 500 grn bullet.

Dog:

I have a .450 Dakota. Trust me when I tell you this that 2450 with a 500 grain bullet is not near as much fun as you think.

I can second that, the 570g TSX's at 2410 fps out of my 500 Jeffery seem to kick 1 1/2 times as much as the same bullet moving out at 2300 fps even though it makes no sense from a physics standpoint.

Well gentlemen you have convinced me to skuttle the idea of the .470-Mbogo and simply hang on to my model 70 Winchester in the .470-Capstick. My wife will appreciate the money I have saved.

The .470 Capstick is a great cartridge. Heck, I would even load it down to 2150 to hunt. It would still have plenty of punch.

Thanks for the words of encouragement Mr. Bush!
Big Jack Five mentioned 535 grn bullets but I have never seen any for that .470-Capstick. I know that it is supposed to shoot 600 grn bullet but have never found anything on those either. Does anyone have any information on the Capstick shooting heavier bullets than 500? Thank you all!

My 535-540 grn idea is just that it would raise the sectional density
to about the same as a 500 grn .458" bullet. So it should penetrate the
same if fired at the same MV but deliver all the more energy to your tar-
get. Such grn weight bullets would need to be specifically ordered from
www.gscustom.co.za for one option.

quote:

Originally posted by Blue Dog:
Gentlemen is it possible to make a .470-Capstick into a .470-Mbogo caliber without a lot of "Smith work"?

The .470-Capstick is a model 70 Winchester.

Blue Dog, I can't recall asking you this, but did you have that gun built, did you buy it, or is it one of the Big Five out of the Custom Shop??????

As for other parts of this discussion, you don't need anything more than what the Capstick is capable of, in the right size barrel. 2250 fps will do anything on the planet you need to do, if you have a proper bullet!!!!!! It's the bullet, not the cartridge. Cartridge is a baby sitter for a proper bullet, and yes, it must have the capacity to push said bullet to proper DG velocity--the Capstick can do this easy, and in a proper damn rifle, Winchester M70.

Now the reason I ask about the rifle itself, I have two of the Win M70 Big Five rifles in 470 Capstick. Lot's of trouble with those guns because the Custom Shop stepped one step above their pay grade on those, and really did not understand what they were getting into.

The 470 Capstick is the largest caliber that you can reasonably and reliably take the old belted HH case out to. It's just that tiny bit bigger than the Lott, and this makes a big difference in retaining the rounds in the magazine. A little work is required over a lott or Win 458 to get it to retain. Which I had SSK do, and that is no longer an issue. However, an issue that is not so easy to over come is that someone decided at the Custom Shop that the barrels should be .477 caliber, and not actual .474. Combine that with undersized bullets at .4725 and .473 and they do indeed rattle down the barrel, most not even having engagement marks! Terminals on solids is horrible for this reason.

One need not concern over SD, one needs to be more concerned over nose profile and meplat size---JACK........ Forget 535-540 grs .474s, you are MUCH better off with either a .474 North Fork or CEB BBW#13 of 500 grs. And of course my own 475 B&M with new North Fork and CEB BBW#13s at 450 grs! SD takes a big back seat to Nose Profile and Meplat size.

Michael

Michael-458, this rifle started out as a newly purchased model 70 Winchester in the .375 H&H caliber!

Then I sent the action and barrel to Kreiger Co. where they took off the original .375 H&H barrel and installed a 26-inch heavy barrel in the .475 caliber. This barrel was sent to me in the white, later it was sent to Randy Brooks and fitted with his muzzle brake.

Now after receiving the barreled action and original .375 barrel from Randy, I took this barreled action along with the model 70 stock to be reinforced with steel and glass bedded, to a gunsmith. I also had this "smith" blue said barrel, the twist is 1 in 14!

I later worked up some loads using IMR-4320 powder, I broke that barrel in uaing Hornady XTP bullets at 1,600 & 1,800 fps. It shot well at that time. My plan now is to have 3 inches cut off that barrel and recrowned. Thank you for the information!

quote:

Originally posted by Blue Dog:
Thanks for the words of encouragement Mr. Bush!
Big Jack Five mentioned 535 grn bullets but I have never seen any for that .470-Capstick. I know that it is supposed to shoot 600 grn bullet but have never found anything on those either. Does anyone have any information on the Capstick shooting heavier bullets than 500? Thank you all!

The 600 grain bullets were manufactured by Barnes. I bought several hundred of the 600 grain originals when they were discontinued. I am not able to get to my 600 grain reloading info as I am out of the USA for another month yet. But I do have some I can send you at a later time.

I thank you Buckeyeshooter!

quote:

Originally posted by Blue Dog:
Michael-458, this rifle started out as a newly purchased model 70 Winchester in the .375 H&H caliber!

Then I sent the action and barrel to Kreiger Co. where they took off the original .375 H&H barrel and installed a 26-inch heavy barrel in the .475 caliber. This barrel was sent to me in the white, later it was sent to Randy Brooks and fitted with his muzzle brake.

Now after receiving the barreled action and original .375 barrel from Randy, I took this barreled action along with the model 70 stock to be reinforced with steel and glass bedded, to a gunsmith. I also had this "smith" blue said barrel, the twist is 1 in 14!

I later worked up some loads using IMR-4320 powder, I broke that barrel in uaing Hornady XTP bullets at 1,600 & 1,800 fps. It shot well at that time. My plan now is to have 3 inches cut off that barrel and recrowned. Thank you for the information!

Blue

Excellent. I think you will be happy in the long run with your rifle, barrel will be sound and proper sized. Both my barrels, .477 caliber. They are very nice rifles, good wood. I sent both of mine to Brian at SSK some time ago, had one barrel shortened to 21 inches the other to 22 inches. Same loads with 500s are down in the 2150-2200 fps. Proper size barrels would do better I am sure.

I have some good load data that I would share with you should you ever want.

Michael

Michael-458, I would be delighted if you could share your findings with me on the .470-Capstick!

Thanks once again sir!

Blue Dog,
This is ancient history, but food for load data:



Latest North Fork 470 bullets are .475" diameter, IIRC.
When Mike Brady first started making them, they were .474".
He soon changed to .475", and I think current owners carried on with that.

Might ought to start low and see if you can work up to this velocity.
My barrel is .475"-grooved, 1:10" twist, McGowen chromoly 26" long.
Your barrel is .475"-grooved, 1:14" Twist, Krieger chromoly 26" long?

Slower twist: faster velocity or lower pressure, but less than 0.5% difference
.475" bullet instead of .474" bullet: higher pressure and/or faster velocity?

'Twould be interesting to see what you get with 500-grain bullets and H4895.

Brass type can make a difference too.
My load was an A-Square manual load, 1 grain below their max charge of H4895,
same primer, different brass, and same weight bullet of different make.
Got the A-Square manual?

Wow Rip! I don't think anybody could ask for a better group,especially from a big bore rifle. I will be exstatic if mine can shoot that good after it is finished up and the bugs are worked out of the rifle. Thank you for showing that fine group on target from your .470-Capstick.

Blue Dog,
It is not much of a problem to get 2400 plus some with a .470 Capstick.

89.5 grs of RL12 for 2410 worked for me as did 88 grs. of IMR-4064.

I used the A-Square loading Manuel to get these loads as it also gave pressure reading..Both loads worked well..

But I also loaded my 470 N.E. down to 2020 FPS and shot about 7 or 8 Buffalo with it, and it killed the heck out of them, so thats the velocity load I ended up useing in both my 470 capstick and 470 Search double rifle.

You would be surprised how many of the old timers who call me and tell me about going to smaller big bores as opposed to taking the beatings handed out by the really big bores, almost all of them eventually come to that conclusion has been my experience. Maybe they are just getting old and more recoil sensitive. I know DWM Bell went to a 6.5x55 for Elephant in later years!

Hello friends, a question that has long annoyed not , the 458 Lott Can shoot bullets of 600 grains?, what benefits that develops bullet weight?, you have hunting experience with this weight bullet in the cartridge 458 Lott?

Thanks,

Oscar.

Thank you RAY! I read and understand what you are saying. Yes my bones are more brittle now days, I now believe after being on this form and reading what others have stated like yourself, I'll be satisfied with what I brought to the dance. I truely thank all of you gentlemen in helping me with that decision. I have yet to be able to hunt cape buffalo but still want to so so. Thanks again gents!

remember all --
the winchester factory barrels is OVERSIZED and therefore can take a higher load .

if you aren't using a winchester factory barrel.. work up slowly ..

based off real life experience, you get about 25% of any increase in capacity.. the 470 capstick is 1% larger than a 458 lott ... and therefore 2400 is, well, very very much pushing the env.

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
remember all --
the winchester factory barrels is OVERSIZED and therefore can take a higher load .

if you aren't using a winchester factory barrel.. work up slowly ..

based off real life experience, you get about 25% of any increase in capacity.. the 470 capstick is 1% larger than a 458 lott ... and therefore 2400 is, well, very very much pushing the env.

jeffe

Jeffe

I concur with that statement. I never pushed to 2400 except in a Ruger #1 I have. And that was too much. Most ALL my loads, that I already sent to Blue was in the 2250-2300 range in 24 inches. And siince I whacked the barrels off to 21 and 22 on those two Winchesters, those loads are now 2150-2200 fps.


Today--I think you and I have the "Go To .474s" 470 AR and 475 B&M. With the new CEB BBW#13s and the New designed North Forks in .474 actual, I am starting to look very much forward to working with the B&Ms! Have BBW#13s on hand, and North Forks on the way! Should you want any of these to play with in the 470 AR let me know!

Michael

Aye, then North Fork has gone back to .474" bullets, like they were originally when I played with them.
Safer in antique double rifles.
My Buddy had a Winchester-barreled Custom Shop 470 Capstick and it key-holed the North Fork .474" bullets.
Just more confirmation of that quantity of 125 Winchesters made in that caliber being over-sized in the barrel grooves and lands, loose.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Aye, then North Fork has gone back to .474" bullets, like they were originally when I played with them.
Safer in antique double rifles.
My Buddy had a Winchester-barreled Custom Shop 470 Capstick and it key-holed the North Fork .474" bullets.
Just more confirmation of that quantity of 125 Winchesters made in that caliber being over-sized in the barrel grooves and lands, loose.

Yes RIP, remember us talking about that run of 470s, as I have number 50 and 97 of that 125 rifles. Sam slugged both those barrels, and both are .477 caliber. I think it's very safe to say the entire run of 125 are the same. Not sure where Winchester got those barrels? Mistake for sure, but by the barrel maker or the Custom Shop? Does not make much difference now. I should have had both those rifles re-barreled with proper barrels, but since they will never go out I just don't see the need to bother with them. With the 475 B&Ms coming on, I will be going in that direction in that caliber anyway. Funny thing about the whole affair, both my rifles will shoot just about anything great at 50 yds? Some bullets, as you have seen and know, are not even engraved? How they can shoot, I don't have a clue? Of course terminals and solids are totally out, and totally unstable. Any expanding conventional is fine at close range I suppose. Moot point, they won't be used for anything.
Michael