Just thinking about flat shooting big bores, and looked up the figures for what I percieve to be the flat shooting big bores (add to the list if you want)

.378 weatherby
.338/378 Weatherby (I know not a big bore but gee it's darn close)
.416 Rigby, Rem, Weatherby.

I feel that the .416's in particular with bullets of 300-350 gr can almost cut it as flat as shooting big bores as the .378 (Maybe not quite as flat as the .338/378) and cut a bigger hole when they arrive.

For example you can probably get the .416 Rigby to throw a 350 gr bullet at close to 2800 fps and that with a BC of say .425 (Woodleigh 340 gr Protected point .416) would shoot as flatas a .338 win mag shootoing a 225 gr protected woodleigh.

I am thinking this would make a great long range load for big bull camels should I ever get to hun them.

So what does the .416's give up in this role if anything ??

I think the 416 with the lighter bullet would be great for longer range.BTW where do you aim at a camel, shoulder ,neck,or the center of his hump

quote:

Just thinking about flat shooting big bores

.338 is a medium.
Only Saeed considers .375 a big bore.
So all those in your list have big fat cases but only the ones of .4xx are big bores. And some people feel the term big bore starts at .470

I can send a 300 grain Barnes X at over 2900fps using RL15 in my Win 70 24" barrel.

Light weight bullets = less mass = less penetration through tough muscle and bone. That's what you're giving up.

The .416s are flat shooting. Living here in B.C. they make great long range Moose and Elk guns. Unless Bear hunting we don't have that much need for the 400s, so loaded with lighter bullets we can get .338 like trajectories and plenty of punch on arrival. I've only killed one Elk with a .416 but the 300gr X dropped him in his tracks. Can't wait to try the Rigby with 350s at 2800+.

PC, check out this thread that I posted and some of the numbers!

I truly don't believe one can say the .378 weatherby is a long range big bore and imply (by it's absense) that the .375 H&H is not. I took a whitetail at over 1/4 mile with my H&H....in my world that's long range.

Since this thread hasn't stated a definition of "big bore" and "long range" I suspect even a .30 -06 could qualify.

That said one needs to add the 416 Taylor, .375 Taylor...many of the Dakotas, the 460 weatherby and IMO the .404 Jeffery with 350 grain softs at 2700 are also long range big bores.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

Since this thread hasn't stated a definition of "big bore" and "long range" I suspect even a .30 -06 could qualify.

quote:

Big Bores [Forum]:
"For those who like the larger calibers, from 375 and up to the 1.008 Vincent Buffalo Thumper"

quote:

Medium Bore Rifles [Forum]:
"From The 27 To 366 Caliber Rifles"

BTW, PC I bet that a .416 caliber 330 gr. GS HV in the .416 Rigby would be the cat's meow as a LR thumper!!!

Some game animals don't need the 400 gr bullet of the .416 and those that do you should not probably be taking 300 yard shots at anyway.

But for large ferals with thinner skin it think the 300-350 gr bullets could be the cats meow and as someone pointed out you get .338 win mag trajectory's but with a bullet of around 350 gr............does this make the .416 one of the most versatile guns out there ??

I kinda thought the same thing, so when I did load testing for the Ribgy I did some with the 350 grain Barnes X. With a very, very conservative (read "light") load it made 2680 fps with no pressure sign whatever. Also grouped well ... just under 1 1/2" at 200 yards.

When my .338 Win Mag started screwing up the Sunday before we left for SA plains game in 2004, I chose to rethink the rifles I'd take and went from the .375 H&H/.338 Win Mag pair to a 9,3x62/.416 Rigby pair for which I had spare scopes already sighted in.

The 9,3x62 was so successful that I only used the Rigby on a Gemsbok. He was at short range ... maybe 35 yards. The X bullet performed exactly like it was supposed to resulting in a one shot kill, literally stunning the animal upon impact. He staggered a few paces and died as he hit the ground.

Given the very nice trajectory of that load and the effectiveness at short as well as longer ranges ... I'd have to give the .416 an A+ for versitility!

quote:

Originally posted by woodsracer:
BTW, PC I bet that a .416 caliber 330 gr. GS HV in the .416 Rigby would be the cat's meow as a LR thumper!!!

woods they look great but I could not find the bc of those .416 bullets on the page.

Find a load with a 400 gr bullet that has the best accuracy with the least variation in velocity. Then shoot about 100 rounds a month with it for six months. After all that you may have the skill to shoot long range with that combination. Trying to short-cut familiarity by adding velocity is a fool's errand, so to speak (nuttin' personal).

quote:

Originally posted by PC:

quote:

Originally posted by woodsracer:
BTW, PC I bet that a .416 caliber 330 gr. GS HV in the .416 Rigby would be the cat's meow as a LR thumper!!!

woods they look great but I could not find the bc of those .416 bullets on the page.

--------------------------------------

GScustom .416-330gnHV BC= .545 (this is not a guess, it is from data that Gerard sent me) m= momentum

Muzzle.....v2800/e5746/m132/...sight:
100yd......v2677/e5254/m126/...+2.00"
200yd......v2557/e4791/m120/....0.00"
300yd......v2438/e4357/m115/...-8.36"

quote:

GScustom .416-330gnHV BC= .545 (this is not a guess, it is from data that Gerard sent me).

Now THAT sounds interesting!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by woodsracer:

quote:

GScustom .416-330gnHV BC= .545 (this is not a guess, it is from data that Gerard sent me).

Now THAT sounds interesting!!!!!

Yes it does sound interesting indeed, can these bullets be had in Oz ?? where there not some distribution issues ??

quote:

Originally posted by PC:

Yes it does sound interesting indeed, can these bullets be had in Oz ?? where there not some distribution issues ??

There's always email: gscustom@wol.co.za !!!

BTW, interestingly the GS 330 HV has a slightly better B.C. than even the 400 gr. Barnes X-Bullet!

My two main calibers I use are the 416 Rem mag and the 338-378 weatherby.I loved 325 gr barnes xbullets in my 416 at 2800 fps.The quit making them though.I usually use my 416 for the thick stuff and the 338-378 for the open areas.I have shot some decident groups with my 416 at 200 yards around 2" but it does fall quickly.I think if a 325 gr bt was made it would be awesome.the 338-378 is one of the best long range rifles you can shoot.I would not be afraid to use it with 250 gr nosiler partitions on anyting up to 2000 pounds under 300 yards.You can use it on elk, and elk sized game out to 600 yards with a range finder very easily.My cousin shot some .25" groups with my gun with the Nosler 250 gr partitions.I have shot just over 1" at 300 yards.Its my primary gun here in Alaska now.I use my 416 for the tent and thick stuff.

If you want a "big bore" (.40"+ cal. and 4,000 ft. lbs) and flat shooting, then the 416's are about as good as it gets.

I also like the 325gr Barnes X and mourn its discontinuance. If Barnes came out with the 325 in a TSX boat tail, then that would be the cat's meow --- 300's get a little short (b.c.) and 350's get a little heavy (for velocity). Those GS bullets look HOT for the long distance big bore sort of thing!

My Rigby spits 325's out at 2900 (per Barnes 2899 and I bump them just a smidge --- no pressure signs) and it is a flat shooting affair, recoil IS brisk however and requires good recoil management technique and concentration.

Powder chamber size is a factor for velocity (and hence long distance) and of the 416's the Weatherby has the most, with the Rigby a close second.

My 2c worth

dgr,

what rifle have you got the .338/378 on ??

Gerad have you got any stockists in Australia of your bullets ?

also DGR how much would the .416 give up to the .338/378 with gerads bullets in regards to flat shooting, I would not think it would be to much with a BC like the one quoted.

I have two Weatherby Accumarks.They are about the best long range rifle under 10 pounds made.They hardly kick with the muzzle break.I site my rifle in at 300 yards and its 18" low at 500 yards.The 416 with at least a 24 " barrel and getting 2800 fps from a 325 gr shoots about like a 30-06 as far as drop.I have a 6.5x20 power Nikon on my 338-378.Its a big game varmit rifle but its not too heavy.The only downside besides cost is that you have to clean it all the way back down every 60 rounds as far as powder and copper fouling go.I get 3150 fps with the 250 gr nosler.My 11 year old hunting buddy shot two caribou with one shot at 450 yards.It looked like a Mac Truck hit them.The second one was on the hill behind the first one.I didnt see it till he shot.I got both of them for $1000 buck.I have two Remington Big Game Rifles in 416 rem mag and one Winchester model 70 express rifle.I use the 22" remingtons in the brush and the tent all the time.The 416 rem mag in a 24" barrel is one of the most effectent cartridges for powder burned and what you get out of it.It has the long range powder but it drops alot faster than the 338-378 weatherby does.With a 338-378 Weatherby Accumark and a good 416 Rem mag your set for any big game on this earth.I hunt with my 338-378 more than any other rifle.My 416 rem mags are life insurance policys for up close dangerous game.

I use the 410 gr woodleigh bullts from Australia for my up close and personal loads.I have seen some dealers with a few 325 gr barnes bullets left.I think the quit making the 350 gr .416 x bullet this year .Barnes still has some of those.I shoot the 350 gr speer 416 bullets alot also.they are alot better bullet than given credit for.I didnt have too much copper fouling with the barnes 325 gr but I kept my rifle clean every 50 shots or so.

dgr416:

Well you probably know I sold my 338-378 but I still have my 30-378 ....as far as long range goes...most everything else takes a back seat....Have you looked into the Swarovski with the TDS reticule..I have a couple in 4-15x50mm PH models and they are fantasic for long range hunting...no worry with hold over out to 800 yards..but I would never attempt a shot that far off...but 600 yds under ideal conditions, yes

I should have bought that 338-378 you can never have enough of them.There is a long rang bullet for the 416 its the jensen j36.It is a 350 gr with a bc of .514.Thats a long range bullet.I would have sold the 30-378 instead of the 338-378.I have not looked at the Swarovski.i have target knobs that are range marked on my 338-378.It works very good for me.I have shot clay targets out to 400 yards with my 338-378.Its just a big varmit rifle that works good on big game.I narrowed myself to those Nosler Partition 250 gr bullets in the 338-378 I have found no other bullet that shoots as good.A guy from canada sent me some bonded 325 gr 338 bullets.I think I can push them almost 2800 fps about the same as the 416 rem mag does.

The Barnes 360 Trippleshock has a B.C. in the .500s, so even if you only get up to 2600 fps the trajectory is great for that big a bullet.

If I could get Gerads 330 gr bullets to Oz I would like to try them......................I don't trust our postal service though they have banned neally everything gun related.

There are two possibilities.
1. We are waiting for an opinion from South Africa Post regarding sending bullets by mail to Australia. We have also asked SA Customs to clarify the position regarding unprimed brass and copper bullets to Oz. Give it another couple of days.
2. We are negotiating a distributor in New Zealand. Would that be of use?

.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
How about Barret's new 416 Barret
Still supersonic at 2500 yards and it's legal in California !

... A shortened and necked down .50 BMG. The Barrett answer to the .408 Cheyenne Tactical.

I like it. Makes more sense. What a great hunting round for cross-canyon elk.

See Barrett's first "Annual" publication, on news stands now: Tactical Weapons "Gun Buyer's Annual Presents #41: Barrett Firearms" ... can anyone list the previous 40 issues, besides ALF?

quote:

Originally posted by ELKampMaster:
I also like the 325gr Barnes X and mourn its discontinuance. If Barnes came out with the 325 in a TSX boat tail, then that would be the cat's meow --- 300's get a little short (b.c.) and 350's get a little heavy (for velocity).

Maybe all interested should EMAIL Barnes' with that very request!!! I also mourned the loss of the 325 gr. X, but a 325 gr. TSX boat tail sounds even better. I'm going to email them right now!

GO HERE to add some heat to Barnes ears!

Yeah I will hassle them for that !!

Gerard,
Like PC, if you can get your projectiles here without jumping through hoops of fire, I'd be in for some. Interested in your 8mm stuff, plus the .35s.
Cheers...
Con

Woodsracer, I emailed Barnes using your link, thanks.

Some 400Gr .458 TSX's would be a hoot as well; however, I didn't want to put them on overload.

Hey would a 470 shooting a 500 grain Barnes X bullet @ 2512 fps count in this flat shooting class.

Yards Velocity Trajectory Energy
Muzzle 2512 fps -1.5 7004 ft lbs
100 yds 2333 fps 2.43 6044 ft lbs
200 yds 2164 fps 0 5197 ft lbs
250 yds 2082 fps -3.93 4813 ft lbs


Take care
Dave

Hell yeah...............but I reckon recoil is the killer here for that round.

quote:

Originally posted by PC:
Just thinking about flat shooting big bores, and looked up the figures for what I percieve to be the flat shooting big bores (add to the list if you want)

.378 weatherby
.338/378 Weatherby (I know not a big bore but gee it's darn close)
.416 Rigby, Rem, Weatherby.

I feel that the .416's in particular with bullets of 300-350 gr can almost cut it as flat as shooting big bores as the .378 (Maybe not quite as flat as the .338/378) and cut a bigger hole when they arrive.

For example you can probably get the .416 Rigby to throw a 350 gr bullet at close to 2800 fps and that with a BC of say .425 (Woodleigh 340 gr Protected point .416) would shoot as flatas a .338 win mag shootoing a 225 gr protected woodleigh.

I am thinking this would make a great long range load for big bull camels should I ever get to hun them.

So what does the .416's give up in this role if anything ??

The flattest shooting big bore we have tried is the 375/416 Rigby - Lazzeroni makes one, I think he calls it the Saturn.

With a 300 grain Barnes X bulet at 3140 fps, it shoots flatter than a lot of long range rifles.

And despite the fact that some people think a 375 is not a big bore, it kills every game animal that walks this earth, and it is legal too!

Where's phurley to champion the cause for the .35s and the 358STA?
Cheers...
Con

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Find a load with a 400 gr bullet that has the best accuracy with the least variation in velocity. Then shoot about 100 rounds a month with it for six months. After all that you may have the skill to shoot long range with that combination. Trying to short-cut familiarity by adding velocity is a fool's errand, so to speak (nuttin' personal).

Now, here is a man I would like to go hunting with! I tip my hat for You, sir!

We can learn the trajectory and shoot a 4570 at long range but thats not what the post is about.