I want my .375H&H to be like shooting one of my .308s. I know someone will without a doubt profess that all I need to do is shoot a 2-Bore once or twice then everything else will be like a .22rf. But seriously guys, what are some of the ramifications of porting verses braking ?
Is one louder than the other? Does one reduce muzzle flip or direct recoil differently than the other? Will there be any effect to the value of my rifle? I have read articles in well known publications stating that guides and PHs don't like brakes due to increased noise levels. What about porting?
Another question. Is aluminum pillar block bedding a waste of money on a DG rifle? I actually want to start using my .375 for all game from rabitts and whitetail on up to......?
Thanks in advance for the opinions of those who have actual experience.
Andy

Noise wise they both increase the decibles. I for one would develope a flinch more from the noise than the recoil. If you reload, down load for thin skinned critters. Both porting (done right) and brake will redduce upward barrel travel.

As for the aluminum pillar block bedding, it allows me to breakdown my rifle into a shorter gun case (33inches instead of 45 inches)for travel, when I put it back together upon arrival to my hunting destination I do not have to adjust the scope at all. Although, if you have a great bed job you could experience the same results.

I think porting looks much better than the brake sticking off the end of the barrel, but in my shooting experience, the brake reduces recoil much better on the really big calibers.

Mag-na-porting (the only porting I have personally used) reduces muzzle flip significantly in 'high intensity' rounds, not so much in lower intensity big bore. It increases noise a bit (especially to the sides), and does not reduce rearward recoil.

Brakes increase noise significantly, don't (usually) reduce muzzle flip (unless the brake is solid on the bottom), and reduce recoil quite a bit if designed correctly. KDF makes a 'slimline' brake which has the same OD as your barrel, so it's not as bulbous as the regular brake.

A guy I know had both Mag-na-porting and a KDF brake on his .300 Win. Mag., and while it recoiled like a .308, it was absolutely obnoxious to be around when fired.

A brake will not reduce the value of your rifle, especially if you get a knurled cap for the threads so it can be fired without the brake. I don't know if Mag-na-porting has any effect on value.

A .375H&H does not need an aluminum bedding block; 'glass-, steel-, Devcon- or Marine Tex-bedding works fie with a wood stock.

If you're going to use your .375H&H for everything, use bullets of different weight and construction; a 235gr. bullet recoils a lot less and usually expands more readily than a 300gr. bullet will on smallish game.

George

I second everything George said. I have several braked rifles, and all have knurled thread caps for field use.

I will not use a brake in the field. It is nuts to do so IHMO. Too much noise and damage to hearing will inevitably result.

That, plus the lesser effectiveness of porting, is why I don't like ported rifles. Once done, it can't be undone except by shortening the barrel.

Brakes are for the bench, and they do wonders there.

George,
I plan on using only 3 bullet weights and they are all from GS Custom. They are 200gr HV, 265gr HV and 270gr FN solid.
Thanks for the info guys. The jury is still out on whether I'll add a brake or get it ported. I do like the way the 200grHVs shoot. They are easy on the shoulder and hell on hogs and deer.
Andy

..A muzzel brake will take the bite out of a 375 ....Magna Ports seem to take the cheek slap out only ....If you have proper eye relief on your scope either will help tame it but a brake does a greater job .......

A removable brake is better than porting and with a cap for it I think adds to it's value with no loss in performance. I'm the 2nd owner of a very nice 375H&H that was ported by previous owner- I think it only takes away from this particular rifle and reduces effective barrel length. R.

I have a Magna-Ported Blaser R 93 in 375 H&H. A buddy of mine has a Blaser R 93 in 375 H&H with a Vias muzzle break.
We have the same scopes mounted.

Shooting both rifles side by side with Federal factory 300gr Nosler Partitions in the field while on a hunting trip, I think this:

Noise:
The Muzzle break is louder, the Magna-Port does not seem any louder to me in the field.
I should say I do have some hearing loss from all the years of shooting, and from some oud noises at work.

Recoil:
The muzzle break did feel a little softer on the shoulder than the Magna Port, however the Magna-Port did have less muzzle rise.

The Magna-Port does take the "sting" out of the recoil, [the Blaser R 93 is a fairly light rifle].

Also the Magna-Port does not kick up grass, dirt etc. when shooting prone.

I have had several muzzlebreaked guns over the years, I now prefer the Magna-Port.

KDF seems to be the most effective muzzle break, it makes a 300 WBY Mag kick like a 243, but it is LOUD.

I also have a Blaser barrel in 300 Win Mag with Magna-Port.

I'll second the muzzle break over a porting job -- it's a big plus to be able to swap it out for a knurled cap when hunting.

what the guys here are saying is experience validity. The most important issue with Magna-Porting is that it is permanent.

Accuracy/Velocity test with a good brake on the rifle, you can cut recoil in half with a good one, and enjoy the load work from the bench. Take it off when you get ready to go hunting and be happy.
I shoot my 505 Gibbs CZ from the bench 8-10 rounds every week weather permitting, and it is not bad at all. I took the brake off and fired one round...that's when I remembered it was a 505 Gibbs not my 9,3x62.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Thanks everyone for your input.

I am thinking I will go with a removeable muzzle brake. Question now is whose? I have heard many good things about KDF. I have fired a 5.5lb(with scope).338 with a Speedy (Speedy Gonzales located in north Texas)Brake. It was like shooting a 10lb .222. Then there are the brakes made by Vito in San Antonio-the "quiet" brakes. So without further ramblings whose brake would you guys recommend?
Andy

I just reviewed some of the information I received from the Dallas Safari show and one African Safari operation stated do not bring a rifle with Mag-na-porting or a muzzle break as it is hard on the PH and trackers hearing. You should be able to shoot a 375 with some practice especially with a 270grain or lighter bullets. This Safari operator recommended a 375 with 235 grain or 250 grain ammo for plains game.

read my lips
375 HH's don't kick..

muzzle brake, or magnaport? HACKSAW to cut that rubbish off

jeffe

Jeffe, you have proved what I said in my second sentence. I expected your response from somebody, but I expected it sooner. I have come to enjoy being able to shoot 100 rounds or more from anything I am practicing with. One of my close friends who passed away in 1998 was not recoil sensitive, but due to the amount of blood thiner he took after a heart attack, he found a method of making everything easy to shoot. I am 6'3" and 278lbs. I would not have wanted to incurr his wrath by calling him a wuss and saying that any of his guns unported didn't kick. The only problem was he took all of his secrets with him to the great beyond. I am not a gunsmith and wish I had learned more from him before he passed.

I once fired 40 rounds of factory loaded .378 weatherby through a rifle weighing 6.875lbs from a bench without a brake and wearing nothing more than a T-shirt, just to prove it could be done. I got all shots in a 2 inch circle at 260yds,four targets were used. I was 19 years old then. I have grown wiser with age. Some people are more recoil sensitive than others. I have nothing left to prove to anybody. I just want my guns to shoot easier.

It has just been suggested that I consider mercury tubes? What the hell is a mercury tube?
Andy

It's a tube filled w. mercury... It's mainly a way to add weight. I think in theory it was supposed to absorb recoil, additionally, by forcing the recoil to expend energy vibrating the Hg...

Andy,
in the field, you never feel recoil... if shooting from a bench, use a leadsled ..its fast enough for bench work, cheap, and doesn't "ruin" a rifle ...

a mercury tube is a 7/8 or so, 4 to 5" long tube, perm sealed, and partily filled, that both adds weight and spreads recoil out over time. lead alone adds weight, and worse nicely, but since energy travels faster through denser material, and the merc starts moving back, but since only partly full, the rifle recoils, then the "second" recoil hits you, about 10-15%, like a 223 with a recoil buffer is the only way i can describe it to you.

while an f990 is UGLY, it is certianly grea for slowing recoil ... and the limbsaver is not just a nice plastic, it also is a mechcanical reduction.
jeffe

I have owned one muzzle braked and eight Magnaported rifles. I hated the brake, it was very loud. I love Magnaporting. I do not notice any increased noise and it(magnaporting)is more attractive than a brake, reduces recoil and muzzle jump. The brake does reduce recoil more than magnaporting but is loud and ugly. I have shot up to .458 WM without magnaporting and don't feel I need it but I say "why not". Some folks change triggers, others change the sights, still others change the safeties, I always Magnaport just because I like it.

Jeffe,

I have noticed this rifle is fairly comfortable to shoot offhand. I haven't tried shooting from sticks or from the bench. In actuality my '03 Sprgfld with metal buttplate and 220gr rnsp seems to be a much sharper rap although the duration is short lived. Perhaps I just need to shoot a few hundred more rnds----it'll deffinately help smooth out the rough action.
Andy

..........I would like to try the Vias brake and the Answer Systems brake ....My gunsmith made the one on my 9.3x64 B integral with 3 slots on the sides and 3 holes in the top ...the bottom 1/3 is closed .....It makes it very easy to shoot and it isn,t much louder .........I,ll be glad when I get a brake on my 458 Lott .....................

drew.....

I'll join the fray, too.

I don't have a muzzle brake, so can't offer you the expereince as someone who owns one. I've shot a whole bunch of rifles with them affixed in cartridges as varying as 50 Browning to .300 Weatherby. For the shooter they are great. For anyone who has to be around them while not shooting they are especially tough on the ears and on any other body parts that come into contact with the muzzle blast. Net, from my experience when not shooting; extremely unpleasant. Opinions vary.....

I had someone show up at the Shooting Range last week with a .338-378 Weatherby with a barrel that extended about another shooting bench length or so to the 50 meter butts and had a muzzle brake. After he touched one off and cleared his shooting lane and the two adjoining lanes of dead leaves & debris and gave me a mild concusion on the next lane; I went & drank coffee until he was finsihed - Whew!

I do have two .375H&H's; one Magna-Ported (I purchased an R93 .375H&H barrel already ported second-hand) and a Winchester Model 70 Safari Express without porting. The only difference I can determine is the muzzle jump reduction of the Magna-Ported rifle although it is considerably lighter than the non-ported rifle. Others who shoot around me claim there is an increase in the report. I don't notice any report increase when shooting the rifle.

I'm going to age myself here.....in 1986 as Larry Kelly was selling a Magna-Porting lisence to Blaser here in Germany they conducted a test on a single rifle that was shot un-ported; then Magna-Ported and another series shot in an attempt to determine the difference on a single barrel. This was done by DEVA (Deutsche Versuchs- und Prüf-anstalt für Jagd- und Sportwaffen e.V.); the German Testing and Proof Institution for Hunting and Sporting Firearms.

Well, I just tore my file cabinet apart and I can't manage to find the report; which Larry had asked me to translate from German to English for him. Since I don't have the report in front of me I'll attmept to recall what the findings were. IIRC the Magna-Ported vs. unported rifle reduced Recoil by @ 3%, Muzzle Jump/Flip by @ 15% but the real wake-up call was noise INCREASE with Magna-Porting from the unported rifle at @77 Db to 79Db; which is significant.

Let me get back to re-organizing the file folders on my office floor......

Someone may have already suggested this, but Vais breaks have worked well for me (had one on a 300 weatherby and a 416 remy). They reduced recoil significantly and didn't seem to increase the noise level to any noticeable degree. They are expensive, if I remember correctly (also removable).

However, I'd suggest a led sled over a break for a 375 any day. Won't have to thread your barrel, and it will kill recoil as effectively and without increasing muzzle blast.

quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:
Jeffe,

I have noticed this rifle is fairly comfortable to shoot offhand. I haven't tried shooting from sticks or from the bench. In actuality my '03 Sprgfld with metal buttplate and 220gr rnsp seems to be a much sharper rap although the duration is short lived. Perhaps I just need to shoot a few hundred more rnds----it'll deffinately help smooth out the rough action.
Andy

Only my experience but on the larger rifles, I found that I shoot to a different point of aim when I take a brake off and substitute the threaded cap. Especially if I practice religiously with the brake and then go out hunting without it soon after. I found other ways to deal with the recoil. I also hate the noise of either a brake or port. The one exception is my Redhawk 500 Linebaugh. With the cylinder gap, complaining about port noise is moot.

Mercury tubes help a lot but drilling inconspicuous places in the stock (like behind the pad and in the barrel channel)and epoxying lead shot can be almost as effective. Watch where you put it so it doesn't unbalance the rifle. A little extra weight goes a long way in reducing recoil.

I also use a Past pad now when I am going to have a prolonged session. It helps a great deal. The last thing I did was decide to shoot the heaviest of the more-or-less normal bullet weights for the big calibers at a nominal velocity of 2300 fps across all calibers 375 and up.

That particular recoil velocity is well within my comfort range and I don't have to try to store a dozen diffent ballistic charts in my head for longer shots.

I have a M70 lefty .375 with a removable break. Like it a lot, and it's a pure pleasure to shoot.

I had Sterling Davenport build me a .416 Hoffman this year, and was concerned about the recoil. Sterling talked me into letting him use his porting instead of putting a break on it. He does an interesting process. I called it a "Daven-port" (Sterling just rolled his eyes). He machines an expansion chamber in the last 2.5" of the barrel then ports through the front sight band on each side of the sight ramp. While this does reduce recoil somewhat, its main job is to reduce muzzle lift. I must say it works very well in both respects. I can shoot it comfortably, and the muzzle stays level during the shot and recovery. It's very graceful, if you want to call it that, and not obtrusive at all. I like it a lot !

How about a photo of that "Daven-port"?

George

If you want a muzzle brake come on out of the closet and get one! I got a Vais for my .416 and it is wonderful and not too loud. The people at the range do not mind (I asked). I do not shoot right next to someone at the range out of courtesy. The PHs have not complained either.

The man at Vais, Ron Bartlett, said the brakes are more effective on high velocity rifles and less so on big bores like the .416. I suspect that they are also louder on high velocity rifles.

I do make sure the blast doesn't blow my skirt up.

http://www.muzzlebrakes.com/

Brakes can serve double duty.

When some hammerhead next to me starts shooting a semi-auto at a relatively rapid pace (he's just busting caps, not sighting in or shooting for groups) and his brass is hitting me or my stuff, I ask him to move one bench to the left or put up some sort of barrier.

If he refuses, I take my .470 Capstick out, put the brake on, and start touching off rounds while standing in the space between our benches.

I've never had said hammerhead last longer than two rounds.

My unbraked .300 Wby. works when I don't have my .470 with me.

George

quote:

Brakes can serve double duty.

Also good for clearing out scragglers and the b/s crowd...

During my last session at the public shooting range there was a group of fellas who were standing around b/s-ing without hearing protection....

I had a hard time getting their attention with the all "clear"...

After setting up my targets and sand-bags a good 15 minutes had past and I informed them that I needed to start shooting and that my rifle is very loud...

One of them just gave me a half nod...

After the first shot when my electronic muffs came back on I heard some profanity and saw them quickly loading their automobile....

................George and Trophy ,,., ........Been my contention all along ......Another thing a cob does ,, as RGB brought up ,, is , protect the crown and muzzle ................I don,t like alot of stuff in the back window of my pickup ... I always have a rifle with me and often it is on the passenger side with the muzzel on the floor mat .......,which usually has little rocks and some dirt on it .........A friend of mine on Prince of Wales had his very accurate 243 peel the barrel back about 16 " when his son shot at a deer ,,,nice buck too .....They had been riding aroung in his pick up with the 243 between the seats with the muzzle on the floor it got about 1/4" of fine dirt packed into the muzzle and when Ryan shot , the barrel became a Y .. ..It,s funny , both were so intent on shooting the deer that Ron , the dad said , you missed Ryan , shoot again ,,.,.,Ryan said something and then they noticed the problem ...........True some tape would have solved the problem before it became one .....And you wouldn,t normally brake a 243 ..........But they give you possibly a second chance when everything else is going wrong that day ...............The one on my 458 has a couple times .......Which brings up the point of tapeing muzzles .............Don,t use just a little wimpy dot of tape ,,,,put some tape on that thing ......I,ve had and seen rifle and shotgun muzzles stuck in some pretty bad stuff a good double layer tape job will protect the crown sometimes ...as every one knows the crown is very important !!!!!!!!!!!!A couple layers of tape , I like Gorilla tape or duck tape really helps .....And wrap a bunch extra around the barrel for after the shooting and before the packin out ....Thats when you are most likely to need it anyway ..............JMO