Just as the subject line says, why do so many people put down the big bores?

I guess this subject came about from my experience at the range today. I had just finished shooting my pink Ruger 10/22 with my daughter and pulled out my 450. The guy sitting over from me catches sight of the 450 NE case and starts to lecture me. I though he was never going to stop, on and on about why I don’t need such a big rife…. blah blah blah. When he was done I did explain to him that the gun will be used primarily for deer drives (and bear if I ever draw one) and while I do normally use a 7mm-08 for hunting, a 500 gr bullet deflects a whole lot less in the brush vs. a 140gr. I know I could have gotten a 45-70 or something along those lines, but where’s the fun in that.

Any one else ran into someone like this?

300 gr. Nosler Partition at 2,450 was enough for this deer in Texas.



The best part was one of the Cajun's in camp (Bubba, of course - and a really fine gent I might add) was laughing so hard he asked me if I would give him a single cartridge for his collection.

Now I darn well know the real story is going to be something like "Yaz godda cee wat dis har kalifornian guy werz huntin wit!"

I miss Bubba - he was flat out good people.

All the pink rifles are for your daughter...correct?

So your man card is not in jeopardy yet.

Sounds like to me the guy you ran into is one of those super practical types that never spend a dime on anything you do not need.

I have actually had the opposite reaction. Most guys are very interested in my bigger rifles.

A couple years ago I was hunting for deer with my 375 H&H. I came across a party of hunters. We starting talking and at one point, one of them asks me what I was shooting. I told him a 30-06 to which he replied something in the lines of, oh, ok and moved on with his day

thecanadian,
What the guy really has a problem with is individual freedom. This is immediately understood when he talks about what you "need" and don’t.

Regards

quote:

Originally posted by thecanadian:
Just as the subject line says, why do so many people put down the big bores?

I guess this subject came about from my experience at the range today. I had just finished shooting my pink Ruger 10/22 with my daughter and pulled out my 450. The guy sitting over from me catches sight of the 450 NE case and starts to lecture me. I though he was never going to stop, on and on about why I don’t need such a big rife…. blah blah blah. When he was done I did explain to him that the gun will be used primarily for deer drives (and bear if I ever draw one) and while I do normally use a 7mm-08 for hunting, a 500 gr bullet deflects a whole lot less in the brush vs. a 140gr. I know I could have gotten a 45-70 or something along those lines, but where’s the fun in that.

Any one else ran into someone like this?

Hard to believe that in WI. All the guys I have hunted with there generally shoot big bores themselves.

quote:

Originally posted by thecanadian:
The guy sitting over from me catches sight of the 450 NE case and starts to lecture me. I though he was never going to stop, on and on about why I don’t need such a big rife…. blah blah blah. When he was done I did explain to him that the gun will be used primarily for deer drives (and bear if I ever draw one) and while I do normally use a 7mm-08 for hunting, a 500 gr bullet deflects a whole lot less in the brush vs. a 140gr.

Maybe it is because you are the Canadian, and are therefore too polite to lie, but I think you should have told him that you were practicing for an upcoming elephant hunt.

The truth is, it is no ones business what you shoot. I think all the guys shooting the sub 6.5mm "beanfield" rifles are kind of queer, but who am to judge?

Bet that guy has a whole list of what YOU need, or conversely...DON'T NEED...that he's willing to share with you...!!!
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Few conversations on this planet make me more angry than to be told by another shooter something alonthe lines of "nobody needs a _______(insert firearm category here), so I don't care if they ban those."
I've been party to just that conversation more than once at competitive shooting events.

"Because I like it. You know, that's the same question anti-gunners and anti-hunters use against all of us. Does it bother you that I have, can shoot and hunt with a 450Nitro? Is it bothering you that Im teaching my daughter safe gun handling, patience and shooting technique? What a ridiculous question. You're the reason we are all in trouble. What's your name?"

Say all of that in one continuous stream of sentences, don't give him a chance to respond.

Then ask him what car he drove to the range. He'll be suspicious of the question and may ask

"Why?"

You're response is "Because you don't need anything more than a Hyundai Accent."

Happy Father's Day

Paul

I once had one guy look at his plastic stock sniper rifle in disgust turned and looked at mine and said"now that's a man's rifle" Then there are times when after each one of my shots goes off I here a bunch of guys giggling.People always approach you at the bench and start asking questions one of which is "Do you hunt elephant with that? To which I reply "No I just like to shoot it" This response is meant to disourage a lot of other questions.When my time is limited I use a unapproachable,mean facial expression to fight off whatever may be coming.However I understand like I once did,many are just looking for conversation and to burn some time.On the subject of giving advice,I believe rifles are like women in a sense that no one likes to be told how to go about it.To end,the question I was most often asked was "How much does that rifle cost?"

"what you dont need" is some fella telling you what you don't need. I've had one guy really seriously telling me i didn't need a big bore. An underweight 500 Jeffery at the time, that wouldn't shoot it. The other couple three have all shot the gun at least once and their minds were not so closed.

Then that refused to shoot it was the most certain of his position. I asked him what the biggest gun he ever shot. 308. Told him we had nothing to discuss, as his experience was profound. He walked awa, to close minded to be insulted

quote:

Originally posted by SDhunter:
Sounds like to me the guy you ran into is one of those super practical types that never spend a dime on anything you do not need.

This is why if I go to a public shooting range I go at odd hours when no one else will be around...

It's part of human nature to have to rationalize other peoples shit in order to make themselves feel better...

i.e. anyone who (drives a car like that, shoots a gun like that, or etc etc) must be compensating for something. Compensating for lack of skill, lack of knowledge, lack of manhood.

Whatever bullshit haters come up with and project on others is usually what they find lacking in themselves...

i.e. When someone starts dissing your big bore rifle it's actually because they are afraid to shoot themselves and it makes them uncomfortable that someone else can shoot them...Otherwise why even comment if it's something you have no interest in???

Another good reason for obnoxiously loud rifles as it usually scares theses types away...

I've actually offered to let these types try out my various bigguns with no takers...

600 OK is great too because at close range (25 yards or so) I've actually had debris fly back and hit shooting benches around me...

quote:

Originally posted by SDhunter:
All the pink rifles are for your daughter...correct?

So your man card is not in jeopardy yet.

Yes the pink rifles are for my daughter. It is interesting though, that he didnt comment on that, custom laminate stock, volquartsen cabon barrel, and several other "exteras".

It sounds like you were talking to a Politician.

quote:

Originally posted by Slider:
It sounds like you were talking to a Politician.

Or a moron. I would have told that clown to bugger off, but in much stronger terms.

George

This is somewhat off the OT, but why is it that just because someone does not like something for what ever their reason, has our modern slociety deemed it necessary or proper to refer to that person/those people as Haters????

Adolph Hitler hated people, members of the Westboro Baptist Church hate people.

Just because someone does not like something or disagrees with others about something, does not make them a hater. It simply means they don't like it and are using their God given right to express their opinion.

Sorry for the rant, but some of todays modern terminology is getting old really quick in my book.

I believe I would have started off with, "Oh, so you're a Democrat?"

That probably would have shut him up pretty quick.

I'm a confessed "regular" at Ben Avery range, which is a very large public range north of town. I only go on Sunday mornings, and I'm standing in line BS'ing with the other "regulars" (most of whom are my friends now) nearly every Sunday, waiting for the range to open.

All the range officers know us well and are used to us. But, you can definitely tell when it's time to pack up and go, when the "regulars" are leaving and the Mall Cops and Tacticool wannabes start showing up.

I usually bring a boomer or two, either handgun or rifle, just about each time I go. Some of my Contender "handcannons" are great for either conversation starters, or enders.

I'll usually let any of the regulars shoot anything I bring out, but I'll limit what I offer up to any of the Tacticool crowd.

When I bring my 375 H&H, I'll ask my friends if they want to shoot my "deer rifle". When someone asks what I hunt with my 375 JDJ handcannon, I say, "Hamsters!"

That usually jerks a knot in their tail.

Ya gotta have fun with them.

I must be lucky. When I bring one of my big rifles to the range, everybody wants to shoot it. I think I had twenty the last time I took the Searcy 470 NE out.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:
"Because I like it. You know, that's the same question anti-gunners and anti-hunters use against all of us. Does it bother you that I have, can shoot and hunt with a 450Nitro? Is it bothering you that Im teaching my daughter safe gun handling, patience and shooting technique? What a ridiculous question. You're the reason we are all in trouble. What's your name?"

Say all of that in one continuous stream of sentences, don't give him a chance to respond.

Then ask him what car he drove to the range. He'll be suspicious of the question and may ask

"Why?"

You're response is "Because you don't need anything more than a Hyundai Accent."

Happy Father's Day

Paul

You hit the nail Paul...

I've never had any negative feedback towards the big bores, but I can't say I've ever had anyone want to shoot them either. Mostly I just get asked "What is that big cannon making all that noise?" The thing that usually baffles me is that most people, after hearing I have a 375 H&H for Africa/DG hunting, begin to ask me about how it's legal to shoot African animals, how can you legally get them home, and more along those lines. I don't mind educating them, but I guess I'm surprised that many hunters have the same mentality an anti-hunter has towards lion/elephant/leopard/rhino hunting based upon what the Discovery Channel tells them.

A classic case of Cartridge Capacity Envy. Tell him you just want to make sure that you kill humanely.

I have the opposite experience. But then again, I PULL people into what I like to shoot. When they start moving over I INVITE them to see what I brought today. I even offer to let them shoot whatever I have. THAT is how you get people to understand why you do what you do. Invite and educate. It's ok to be short with people if your pressed for time, but it is never ok to be ignorant. We need people to stand with us...not opposed to what we like. Otherwise, you might find out in the future the largest caliber you can shoot will be a .30 caliber like many other countries. I almost always take along a few extra rounds just for this purpose. Just saying.

I've never run into that at the range; actually the opposite. People curious about my 375H&H or 404J "elephant guns".

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
This is somewhat off the OT, but why is it that just because someone does not like something for what ever their reason, has our modern slociety deemed it necessary or proper to refer to that person/those people as Haters????

Crazyhorse
"Haters" is a fairly new term that has been popularized by the urban music scene. A "hater" is someone driven by envy who looks for things to make negative comments about.

It has found its way into common usage because it succinctly describes a very annoying segment of the population.

I know Jason, just an old man's being out of touch with modern society.

I am lucky in that I have access to a private range so don't have to put up with the odd balls.

At the ranch, if a few of us get together and I have my 375 out there most folks want to try at least one shot with it. Same with my 300 Weatherby, which to me is not all that big, but I have found out that there are a l.ot of folks running around that feel that a 30-06 is a Big Rifle.

I generally have people come over and look at what I'm shooting after they have heard it go off a couple of times---generally no problem just curious. Last weekend, we had a couple of guys show up and they were mostly shooting a 22 rifle---I was shooting my 458Lott. I finished a three shot group and one of these guys was standing right behind me. As soon as I ejected the last shell he stepped right up to the bench and asked "is there any practical use for that thing". I looked up at him and said well it works great on deer in dense thickets and I haven't had any problem with elephants in my garden. He just made a funny face and walked back to his buddy and started shooting the 22 again. A little while later I realized they had switched to AR15's and were blasting away at targets on the 25yd backstop. I walked down to their benches and as he finished a magazine I stepped up to his bench and asked him what was practical about an assault rifle at only 25yds. If that was as far as he planned to shoot, maybe he needed to get a shotgun. They packed up and left after that.

The same reason when you start talking about long range hunting the haters come out.

1. they can't belive some one can do it.
2. they have never tired it them selves
3. they are afraid to do it

Having used my 416 on porkupines,deer and bear


My standard response is because I can.

I have never experienced that but one time in my whole life and believe it or not, it was on an African hunt.

Most people I run into at the range, want to shoot one of those big bores but seldom shoot want to twice in a row.

Now as far as the Loooooong Range hunting goes, most hunters in their 50's and older where brought up and taught that 250 to 300 was MAX range for taking a shot and anything over that would be a bad idea. I have always contended that if the hunter has the skill, so be it and let him to his thing with his rifle.

quote:

why do so many people put down the big bores?

Frankly, I didn't know they did.

Seriously however they are not needed for 99% of my hunting so I seldom use one.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

why do so many people put down the big bores?

Frankly, I didn't know they did.

Me neither. I've had all kinds of big bores at the range when there were other people shooting close around me. From the .577 DR down, all they seemed to want to do was learn about them. Most even wanted to take a shot or two, and numbers of them offered to pay the cost of the ammo for their shots without being asked.


On the other hand, I've also had small bore full autos at the range and nobody ever criticized those either. Again, they just wanted to handle and shoot them. But with those I generally don't let anyone else fire mine. Am too worried about safety on a public range to let strangers whose abilities I don't know about tear off a mag (or even part of one).

I find being obviously careful, organized, and wearing a big smile while shooting seems to initiate a lot of curiousity and even comaraderie.

Most folks at the range don't go out of their way to be nasty to those who are obviously being friendly with them.....regardless how old or young they are or what they look like.

Here in NZ medium & large bores are very uncommon. Even the 30'06 & 300 mags are uncommon.

At one club shoot I was using my 358 Win and one idiot was laughing at my "elephant gun". I have used my 9.3X62 on occasions and have not had any comments at this club.

For every rifle enthusiast / big bore fan, I guess you have over 100 shooters who just treat a rifle as a tool of trade.

Ignorance is bliss. I was setting up at the 100 yard range once at Sacramento with my 357
Supermag revolver. I was working up loads for IMSHA Sihlouette. The range master came over and said I couldn't shoot a revolver at 100 yards. I asked why not and he said that a revolver could not shoot accurately at 100 yards with iron sights. I moved over to the 25 yard range and shot 5 shots into less than an inch and brought him the target. He then allowed me to shoot at 100 yards Half of the yayhoos there couldn't do that with a rifle.

Whenever someone comes up to me at the range I always offer them a few shots. Had one guy offer to pay me 10 bucks to shoot a .500 NE double. I refused to take his money, but instructed him on how to shoot it. He was incredibly pleased even though it kicked the crap out of him. You can spot a jerk at 1000 yards. They usually come over and say something like you ever shoot an eEleohant with that thing? The answer of "yup" usually sends them on their way. One guy said to me " How do you kill those poor animals" I answered by shooting them in the shoulder, to which he just walked away. -Rob

I have never encountered this phenomenon.

quote:

This is why if I go to a public shooting range I go at odd hours when no one else will be around...

If I need to get some serious load development done, I do exactly the same thing. I even go so far as to do most of serious work January through April if the weather is tolerable. It opens at 0800 and I like to get there at 0730 to have everything set up and ready to go. It is amazing how much you can accomplish before the first guy shows up and I can be home in time for lunch with everything cleaned and put away.

Sunday mornings at my local range is a big bullchit session. I go down there to talk to people I haven't seen for awhile. Usually don't even take a rifle. But the range is only 2 miles from my house.

At the range in Alaska it is common to see guys shooting big bores. I get some mild interest from others when I take my 458 but to me it's not much different than a 45-70, just in a rifle type that is more familiar to me. Anything from 375 and bigger is still rather common.

Around here, there are several young guys who make a lot of money fishing, and they spend it on toys. One toy that seems to be getting more popular is something that shoots the 50 BMG. Mostly I've seen the single shot bolt actions, with the large muzzel brakes. They have a horrendus muzzel blast, enough it seems to not park the truck too close, to avoid it tipping over from the blast.

So, they run off everyone else wanting to shoot. It's dangerous to the ears to sit anywhere near them, even with the best ear protection that I have.

That's annoying, and I really see no useful point for HUNTING for a rifle like that. I can see that it may be fun to shoot, just to see what it can do, but those bullets are expensive. It's their money, but I am a paying member of the club and the range, and these guys are guests. It's rude IMO.

Plus, we can't keep a 300 yd gong. It's thick enough to last a while with normal hunting cartridges, but the 50 cal ruins it in a hurry.

KB

I usually hit the range on weekdays. I often take the .375 and the .458 Win. I had two young guys just bust a gut to shoot the .458. I asked them if they wanted the full power loads or the target loads and they opted for the hot stuff. I have it stoked pretty good with A2230 and 500 grain Hornadys. Kicked the hell out of them. They shot it very well, too, and wanted to buy it after they finished. Big grins all around.

I really enjoy letting younger people shoot my larger calibers.

I let some little girl shoot the .375, a Model 70, and it rattled her teeth with a 300 grain max load, but she was grinning the whole time.

This is a rural area and a .300 Win is a big rifle to most of these folks. Several have shot the .375 and really liked it.

I had one guy comment on my stance until I told him the rifle had two dead buffalo on it, along with several other animals. He shut up and walked.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I must be lucky. When I bring one of my big rifles to the range, everybody wants to shoot it. I think I had twenty the last time I took the Searcy 470 NE out.

Rich

Rich, your in Idaho where everyone loves a nice gun! Been trying to find a way to justify moving there for 10 years! Beautiful place to live, great folks!

I have had a mixed response when i have taken my 458win out mostly good often have people say they would not shoot it but often it does not take too long after talking to them for them to give it a go but i dont normally give them full loads as i dont want scare them off.

Canadian this quote from a mate of mine might help.
opinons are like ARSEH&LES and they normaly. stink

Come to the UK - we dont see very many big bores as difficult to have anything much bigger than 30-06 on your licence unless you can show overseas use. Sorts the problem of big bore haters.

Instead we have - you most only use a T3 / Sako synthetic in 6.5x55 with large moderator and tactical scope bores!

Try say that you use a combination gun and see the looks you get.