Shootaway,

Maybe I'm missing them but I don't see where you posted load data in this thread.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Shootaway,

Maybe I'm missing them but I don't see where you posted load data in this thread.

465H&H

I deleted them.Although they were ok in one of my rifles,I found them a little on the hot side in the rifle tested.I'll try and put new ones up this week.

I loaded the resized cases with 500gr A-frames,500gr Woodleighfmj and 550 fmj's. Loads will be 78gr H4895 for the A-frames and 500Woodleigh fmj,and 77grs for the 550's.It was interesting to note that the rounds with the 550gr Woodleigh fmj's did not end up with a bulge in the neck,the way my reloads usually do. The four rounds in the left of the pic are the 550's and the two on the right are the 500 fmj and the A-frame.I measured the diameter and got.4570-75 for the A-frames,.4565-70 for the woodleigh 500 fmj's and .4560-65 for the 550 fmj's.


reloads

good crimp....

78grs H4895- 500gr A-frame-2252fps,500gr Woodleigh fmj=2212fps.77grs H4895-550gr Woodleigh fmj=2151fps. I was out at the range again today and found my POI to be really low for one of the two rifles.I checked the guard screws and they were loose on both rifles.That explained some shifts in POI I was experiencing lately.That lott is really hard on the screws.I took the screws out when I got back,gave them and their sockets a cleaning and applied a new coat of loctite.I noticed the threads were damaged on the recoil lug screw,in both rifles,in the same place.


Ruger recoil lug screw

I shoot a Model 70 in 458Lott and just don't experience this problem.

I would reduce that 77grs H4895 550 gr load by 2 or 3 grains.The other loads are OK.

quote:

Originally posted by Pegleg:
I shoot a Model 70 in 458Lott and just don't experience this problem.

Pegleg,do you mean the screws loostening or the damaged recoil screw? I am sure that this recoil screw caused some fliers over time.

Shootaway;

Just a question: Been wondering, do you speak French? Or, is your mother tongue French? I'm bilingual, but my mother tongue is English. I lived in the Montreal area for about 15 years.

The reason I ask, is because if your mother tongue is French, then that may cause a little bit of a communication problem in English, especially with our brethren from the West (including Canada), or the South West.

I've lost a lot of my French since moving to Ontario from Quebec in 1975, and I know how easy it is to be misunderstood, or to not communicate exactly what I want to say in French today, when I visit Quebec.

I'm not trying to be smart or difficult... but just wondering if your mother tongue may be French, being from Montreal. In any case, I think you communicate well enough, and this is NOT intended to criticize... at the best of times we all have some difficulty expressing exactly what we want to say... especially with our wives

Anyway, thanks for sharing your loads.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

quote:

Originally posted by .458 Only:
Shootaway;

Just a question: Been wondering, do you speak French? Or, is your mother tongue French? I'm bilingual, but my mother tongue is English. I lived in the Montreal area for about 15 years.

The reason I ask, is because if your mother tongue is French, then that may cause a little bit of a communication problem in English, especially with our brethren from the West (including Canada), or the South West.

I've lost a lot of my French since moving to Ontario from Quebec in 1975, and I know how easy it is to be misunderstood, or to not communicate exactly what I want to say in French today, when I visit Quebec.

I'm not trying to be smart or difficult... but just wondering if your mother tongue may be French, being from Montreal. In any case, I think you communicate well enough, and this is NOT intended to criticize... at the best of times we all have some difficulty expressing exactly what we want to say... especially with our wives

Anyway, thanks for sharing your loads.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Bob,I am not french.I can speak french.I went to protestant,english school, high school and college.

I tightened my guard screws and returned to the range,to test POI and chrono a 75gr H4895 550gr load.I did not have enough time for the chrono and will return today and get that done.I got 2137 fps last time,with 76grs,but I think that that is a little on the hot side.I checked the cases after firing the 75gr load and I think that this as far as I will go with the 550 and H4895.The POI results were similar to the ones I got the first time out(first target posted above).It seems the difference in POI,at 100yds, between the 550 fmj at around 2130fps and the A-frames at 2275fps is 3 inches verticle and 4 inches horizontal.I will clean my rifle and repeat this test today and include the 77gr 500fmj rounds.


100yds

I moved the target and caused the sheet to overlap one of the holes on the left.Only the shots circled where fired.I shouldn't have started this test,from the beginning,thinking that the loctite I used on the guard screws,last winter,would hold forever and that the screws did not need to be checked.I am going to try to get to the range early today,take my time,and profit from more daylight.I wish I could get my hands on some 550 softs as the fmj's shoot really well.

I find this hard to follow. potentially interesting, but I cannot make sense of it all.

Why don't you zero the rifle!? Please, Show us a group dead center. Until, I see a clean target for a zero'ed in rifle, I dont get any of this.

Are you able to zero the gun at all? Or do groups shift with same gun, same load, same day?

I would suggest you then introduce ONE variable and show the POI shift.

Start a new thread, one GOOD target please and then ONE problem. If you cannot get the rifle zeroed, then that's problem one to be addressed first.

Do this right Stop changing loads and guns and get one load zeroed in and go from there. Until then, I dont think you will learn much or get helpful advise. When you POI is 1-2 foot off center any slight canting of the gun when firing will throw your shot WAY OFF. Sight in that gun.

Ed Scarboro
Thats odd that both powder shot pretty near
same. I've used IMR4320 Right from the start.
I mean it gave me no reason to change. I use 85gr or there about. The rifle gave me no reason to change.

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
I find this hard to follow. potentially interesting, but I cannot make sense of it all.

Why don't you zero the rifle!? Please, Show us a group dead center. Until, I see a clean target for a zero'ed in rifle, I dont get any of this.

Are you able to zero the gun at all? Or do groups shift with same gun, same load, same day?

I would suggest you then introduce ONE variable and show the POI shift.

Start a new thread, one GOOD target please and then ONE problem. If you cannot get the rifle zeroed, then that's problem one to be addressed first.

Do this right Stop changing loads and guns and get one load zeroed in and go from there. Until then, I dont think you will learn much or get helpful advise. When you POI is 1-2 foot off center any slight canting of the gun when firing will throw your shot WAY OFF. Sight in that gun.

I am sorry.I understand that this can be confusing for many.Shooting is a very confusing thing.I am trying to make things as simple as possible.The rifle is zeroed,offhand at 100yds.Zeroing a rifle is a whole different subject.

Can you go back and shoot one target with your sighted in load. Thats all. One three shot group. If you are off, get sighted back in. Once you get a clean dead nuts on target- show us that.

Then, next day go back and shoot another target, same gun same load. If it is off, lets work on that. If the next day, you are still hitting DEAD center. Great. Either way, post those results here.

If day 2 went well, introduce ONE variable. And post your third target here.

Then we can talk.

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
Can you go back and shoot one target with your sighted in load. Thats all. One three shot group. If you are off, get sighted back in. Once you get a clean dead nuts on target- show us that.

Then, next day go back and shoot another target, same gun same load. If it is off, lets work on that. If the next day, you are still hitting DEAD center. Great. Either way, post those results here.

If day 2 went well, introduce ONE variable. And post your third target here.

Then we can talk.

fourbore,I do not want to make things more complicated and discuss zeroing a rifle on this thread.I did discuss it before and posted pretty targets with the holes in the bullseye.

He doesnt want to discuss zeroing a rifle.

He wants you to zero it, leave it, shoot the same load for several days, then see if your POI is changing then....thats what he wants to see. Then go from there on discussing potential problems with loads &/or gun &/or shooter.

fourbore, you could be wasting your time

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway: I am sorry.I understand that this can be confusing for many.Shooting is a very confusing thing.I am trying to make things as simple as possible.The rifle is zeroed,offhand at 100yds.Zeroing a rifle is a whole different subject.

If the rifle is zeroed, why are your bullets hitting the lower left of the target?? Are you intentionally aiming at that area?

quote:

Originally posted by jro45:
Ed Scarboro
Thats odd that both powder shot pretty near
same. I've used IMR4320 Right from the start.
I mean it gave me no reason to change. I use 85gr or there about. The rifle gave me no reason to change.

jro45,

I wanted to try AA2520, H4895 and IMR4320 for velocity and accuracy. So far the gun seems to shoot AA2520 and H4895 very well with good groups at about 2300fps. The AA2520 does not group the solids and softs near each other. The solids shoot about 4-5" below the softnose. The loads with H4895 will overlap the softnose with the solids. With H4895, the softs are running right at 2300fps and with the same load the solids are running just over 2360fps. I just got a pound of IMR4320 to try and see how it works with this rifle. The load data I have for the Lott does not go up to 85gr with IMR4320. I am trying to figure out what level to start from.

Steve Meyer from Lowveld Hunters has been visiting with us for the past few days so I have not loaded any rounds with the IMR4320 yet. I just put him on a plane to head out to Reno so I will load a few rounds this week to start trying the 4320.

I was out again yesterday and got poor results.I got a misfire and a POI that was really high,all of a sudden.When I got back, I took my bolt apart and gave the firing pin and spring assembly a good cleaning, and oiling.I think the cold and humidity froze up the gum that accumulated inside causing the misfire and possibly affecting accuracy and POI.I also replaced the front beads on both my Rugers so I can use the fixed rear sight instead of the 200yd leaf sight,that I have glued with loctite.It is possible that the loctite bond weakened and caused some movement.

higher front sights

Here are the chrono results for
75grs H4895,550gr fmj-2113,2103,2104,2110fps:
77grs H4895 500gr fmj-2190,2201,2186,2184fps:
78grs H4895,500gr a-frame-2259,2266,2275fps.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Shooting is a very confusing thing.

AWESOME

quote:

I think the cold and humidity froze up the gum that accumulated inside causing the misfire

Ya think?

quote:

affecting accuracy and POI

I'm not buying this!

quote:

I also replaced the front beads on both my Rugers so I can use the fixed rear sight instead of the 200yd leaf sight,that I have glued with loctite.It is possible that the loctite bond weakened and caused some movement

Your using your 200 yard leaf @ 100 yards?

My rifle handles those loads with no problem. But a different rifle may not be able to handle
them. Its all in the cards fall.

I recommend you go to your local gun shop and ask those guns to tighten up all the the screws on the gun. Get that done right and leave them alone.

They also know the best lube for your cold weather. I would try silicon spray, like gunk, instead of gun oil or grease?

A misfire could be a bad reload. Bad primer. I saw an old, neglected Ruger rust up inside the bolt.

Looks like both of those new white front sight beads are not snapped in, (not pushed down and seated).

If you have a spare scope and rings, maybe mount a scope just until you get one gun sorted out. You could ask the gun shop guys to mount the scope, bore site and tighten up the rings for you. If you do this leave those screws alone too.

I have a suspicion you are too quick to take your guns apart.

Are you shooting two Rugers and a CZ? I think pick one gun, take it to your gun shop. Get it checked out and buy/few couple boxes of factory Hornady loads.

Start over, see if you get some stable results over a few days shooting. One gun and factory loads.

fourbore,
Ruger changed the dovetail length on their front site some where along the line. The front site inserts shown in the picture are designed for both lengths of dovetails. Shootaway just hasn't trimmed off the extra length on the insert.

quote:

Originally posted by Low Wall:
fourbore,
Ruger changed the dovetail length on their front site some where along the line. The front site inserts shown in the picture are designed for both lengths of dovetails. Shootaway just hasn't trimmed off the extra length on the insert.

Thanks Low Wall.I started trimming them or filing them down.I had to file one slightly on the side to get it to fit.The other was almost perfect and just needed tapping with a small hammer.It took me only 5 minutes to remove the old one and install one.I had a little trouble removing the second and asked someone to help me hold down the plunger while I knocked the old sight off.Installing them was much simpler than I thought.

I solved the varying POI issue.It was my firing pin,spring assembly that was gummed up with molly and carbon.Both rifles work great now and strike the primer with a consistant and energetic blow.I was really glad to see both 550 fmj and 500 a-frames shooting to the same POI.It is interesting to note that I accidentally fired two rds that were meant for the second rifle and got a really different POI (and a fouled bore),with the same bullet and load.

POI

I wrongly bought taller sights to raise my POI when I needed lower front sights.I will file the ones I have on hand,as I think they don't make any lower.The five rounds on the bottom are 3 550fmj's and 2 500gr-aframes with the loads listed above.The two rds on top are the same 500gr a-frame loaded rds,but were resized from my other Ruger.When this happens,the bore becomes really fouled with copper and it is hell to clean.

measuring a front sight height

I had the recoil screw fall out of my RSM while shooting. I guess it was while shooting because one day when I pulled it out of the safe the screw was not there. It is a real problem with these rifles shooting 2200 fps+ 500 grain loads. Also, Shootaway is using the 200 yard leaf because these rifles come with the lowest front sight made by Ruger or NECGW and the rifle will shoot from 6-8" low at 100 yards with factory Hornady 500 grain 458 Lott ammo.

I do not know what in the heck kind of load Ruger uses as far as regulating the iron sights on these rifles. Maybe a 350 grainer, and if so, why. Mine is great using a scope, but I did not buy it to scope it.

I think Shootaway has valid points. His delivery is fragmented and ripe for sniping.

I use DP-74, which is AA2250 surplus (load to 103% weight) on this rifle and it is very accurate if I keep loads under 2300 fps. Anything 2300 or above, I flinch and it all goes to hell.

quote:

Originally posted by 390ish:
I think Shootaway has valid points. His delivery is fragmented and ripe for sniping.

Yes...I often find that a POI shift can be traced back to fowling of the firing pin spring. And if you have fired a case in another rifle, of course that will lead to more copper fouling!

quote:

Originally posted by 390ish:
I had the recoil screw fall out of my RSM while shooting. I guess it was while shooting because one day when I pulled it out of the safe the screw was not there. It is a real problem with these rifles shooting 2200 fps+ 500 grain loads. Also, Shootaway is using the 200 yard leaf because these rifles come with the lowest front sight made by Ruger or NECGW and the rifle will shoot from 6-8" low at 100 yards with factory Hornady 500 grain 458 Lott ammo.

I do not know what in the heck kind of load Ruger uses as far as regulating the iron sights on these rifles. Maybe a 350 grainer, and if so, why. Mine is great using a scope, but I did not buy it to scope it.

I think Shootaway has valid points. His delivery is fragmented and ripe for sniping.

I use DP-74, which is AA2250 surplus (load to 103% weight) on this rifle and it is very accurate if I keep loads under 2300 fps. Anything 2300 or above, I flinch and it all goes to hell.

Brownells, lists .300 NECG ruger front sights:

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx...__RIFLE_FRONT_SIGHTS

They also sell a NECG peep that might work fine with the std .330 height.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx..._reg__RECEIVER_SIGHT

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
Brownells, lists .300 NECG ruger front sights:

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx...__RIFLE_FRONT_SIGHTS

They also sell a NECG peep that might work fine with the std .330 height.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx..._reg__RECEIVER_SIGHT

Thanks.

Shootaway
If you really want to check your POI set up on sandbags so you take out the error by shooting off hand. Your off hand groups are good but it's hard to figure honest POI by shooting off hand.
Dave

quote:

Originally posted by 470 Mbogo:
Shootaway
If you really want to check your POI set up on sandbags so you take out the error by shooting off hand. Your off hand groups are good but it's hard to figure honest POI by shooting off hand.
Dave

470,I am shooting off sandbags.I just choose the wrong time to do it in that everything on my rifle was coming apart.I was out again today,this time with almost everything in order and it was copper fouling sending my shots all over the place.I thought I could go 30 or so rounds without cleaning but I was wrong.

I have been following this thread while working on loads for my own 458 Lott. This may be changing the subject a little, but what do most consider as a good group with 500gr loads out of the Lott? I am shooting a CZ550 with a Leupold 1.75X6 with heavy cross hairs. The cross hairs cover a 2" dot at 100yds. I have generally targeted 1" at 100yds with the larger calibers. My 458WM in a CZ will average about 1.25 with both softs and solids at 100yds.

I finally got everything together.Both my rifles are shooting the way they are supposed to be.I hope the rifles will maintain their zero and remain trouble free.I gave them a really good cleaning before going back to the range today.Both rifles have a .32 front sight and these will not shoot bulseye offhand at 100yds unless the 200yd leaf is used or a shorter front.I am know using the 100yd leaf glued on to the fixed sight.I prefer using the peep like notch that it has instead of the fixed sight.I used acraglass to glue the leaf instead of loctite.I don't think it will come apart.I also applied acraglass on the uderside of the express sight assembly and to the threads of the screw with a q-tip.I checked the front sight for movement and found none.BTW,the white bead,NECG siights are great.I found it easier to make out the target with them.Here is the first group with the a-frames.The one on top is the fouler and then the three shot group.

a-frames,100yds

Then four shots with the 550 fmj's.

550fmj and 500aframes

The rifle will be good once again to resume offhand shooting once I get my .30 front sights.I had identical results with my second Ruger.I am looking forward to using these loads on buff, in Zim this September.I will be going on a 12 day double buff hunt,in Makuti with Charlton Mccallum Safaris.

quote:

I am looking forward to using these loads on buff, in Zim this September.I will be going on a 12 day double, buff hunt,in Makuti with Charlton Mccallum Safaris.

I bet he cant wait!!

I thought I would post the results from the second rifle also.The pic below has the combination of 550 fmj's and 500 aframes from both rifles.The windage adjustment on the second rifle is set a little more to the left and it shows on the target.I think it would be safe to say,from the results I got,both loaded rounds have a very close POI.

So who is going to be your PH?

I am shocked that you can only get a couple rounds down a barrel before POI goes haywire.

How come F-Class, Silhouette, Highpower, Smallbore, etc., shooters get many more?