Hi there first post here you guys are a great bunch to learn from. My question is if I have a 458wm with a coal of 3.600-3.700 ruger #1 can I load it using lott data as it is the same except brass length or am I out in left field ? I'm not trying to hotrod it just seems like a few more grains could safely fit? thx for any help. p.s my gun is for fun and will never hunt dangerous game thx

I do not recommend it.

George

Thanks georges just curious as to what the differance is.

Hey Mister,

Welcome aboard. Go with what George wrote. Data for the .458 Lott is for that cartridge only. Use .458 Winchester Mag data for your loading. A few more grains of which powder? Safely? I would not on a bet. Reloading is not to be trifled with. The reloading manuals and all contained within are to be used and with caution. Do not relegate a load to memory, either. Look it up each time and keep your powder and primers current. Loading your own is very satisfying. However, a clear head, no stress and, above all, no distractions are necessary to pursue this hobby safely. Even the best and most experienced err. When you do, and you will, you want to survive.

I know, I know, more than you wanted.

Luck,

Stephen

thx for the welcome and thx for your comments. I do err on the causious side I have lots of data for the 458wm just needed some opinions in theory before I tried it in reality but I will just stick to what people have said here thx again

check with 458 only - he loads long 458 winmag to almost lott.

i do NOT recommend using lott data in a winmag, ever

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
i do NOT recommend using lott data in a winmag, ever

I'm going to disagree with Jeffe(that almost never happens.... )

IIRC, Finn Aagaard(the greatest gunwriter of all time) did load the win mag to lott levels by seating the bullet to an oal of 3.600".

IIRC, he did it in a m70 that had a lot of free bore.

I should have added, WORK UP SLOWLY -AT YOUR OWN RISK-

thx guys i have read 458only his blog is very interesting i hope he chimes in thx for the replys

If you want to load to 458 Lott specs just have your smithy run a Lott reamer into the chamber, then you can use Lott data all you want.

quote:

Originally posted by BigBullet:
If you want to load to 458 Lott specs just have your smithy run a Lott reamer into the chamber, then you can use Lott data all you want.

Welcome here mister, you have come to the right place!

The above is good advice! Using data for a larger capacity case of the same caliber is not a recommended thing to do, IOM!

However, you can improve the 458 Win mag by simply doing what should have been done by the factory when it first came out, either use a longer case (458 LOTT ) or a lighter, shorter bullet in the Win Mag case, with the loads used for the heavier bullet.

The 458 LOTT is what the 458 Win Mag should have been in the first place, especially at the time when the 458 WM came on the scene. At that time the powders were not suited for the use Winchester made of them in this case, and caused a lot of problems in the field, that the LOTT would have solved. With today’s powders the 458 WM can be very useful and without the powder compacting problem that showed it’s ugly head in 1955! Even then the cartridge could have been better if they had only used a shorter/ lighter bullet in the 450 to 480 grain bullets seated properly to increase the powder capacity in the Win Mag case.

BIG Bullet’s advice to simply run a LOTT reamer into the chamber of your No1 is the key!

There is no need IMO, to increase the velocity to LOTT Max velocities even in the LOTT case. The round came out to be used for the same purpose as the 450NE 3 ¼” double rifle round. I have always loaded my LOTT rifle to the 450NE 3 ¼ “ with a 480 gr bullet at 2150 feet per second. That load has taken everything that walks the face of this planet, in fine fashion. The recoil is manageable, from all hunting positions, even in the No1, or a 10 pound bolt rifle and the animal being hit properly with it will not live long enough to consider the difference.

Good luck and again welcome here!

My N0. 1 has a very long throat, so long you can't get 500 gr. Hornady rns. to hit the lands. So I have loaded it way long and have gotten 2300 fps with 500 gr. bullets with no obvious pressure signs. I would not hunt it that way for sure, I just did it to see if I could. If I were going to take it hunting I think I would load it out a bit and settle on a reasonable pressure (lower that factory?) load at about 2100 fps. Note in the No. 1 the recoil at the high end is pretty bad.
C.G.B.

hi cgbach my ruger #1 is the same I load to 3.600 coal and I am using 76 gr of rl15 seems a little slow. I have shot a semi wild 1200 lbs poll hereford bull with it and it was impressive but other than maybe a black bear I don't intend on shooting anything dangerous. The recoil is not bad but I'm used to 10 gauge loads. I'm not trying to make a lott I'm just curious.

I used IMR 4895 and IMR 4064 and decided the 4895 had a slight edge in accuracy and velocity. My Leupold 1.5x5 locked up after about 50 rounds and I developed a small crack in the pistol grip playing with these.
C.G.B.

I have a #1 in the 458 Lott and I will tell you straight up....with top end 500gr loads the recoil IS brutal, and my gun has a pound of lead in the buttstock yet. Honestly, after just 2 shots I started to get dizzy and my brain was getting numb...no kidding. Needless to say, I don't need them that hot. A 500 @ 2150fps is plenty.

I'm not to worried about recoil I've fired some heavy kickers before and I am a glutton for punishment the thrill of the kick so to speak. but running them at 2150 -2200 is good enough for me as well.Now to try some 350 tsx at 2750 that sounds fun.

Here's something to consider when all the macho stuff settles down

A 458 Lott loaded to 3.6" COAL with a Hrn 500gr RN has 84gr H2O case volume.

A 458 WM loaded to 3.6: COAL with a Hrn 500 gr RN has EXACTLY THE SAME case volume...84gr H2O...BUT it's only seated about a quarter inch deep. Probably OK for a single shot but NOT very good for a magazine fed rifle.

They both produce the same pressure AND velocity at those parameters within statistical limits.

Basically it doesn't matter WHAT bullet you use, the only thing relavent is WHERE the base of the bullet ends up...which gives you the NET case volume...and whether or not there is enough case left over to hold the bullet firmly.

I've been long throating and seating out beyond SAAMI specs a very long time, but it seems to be a new thing starting to catch on and questions about it are popping up on many forums.

Wonder if someone has written an article in some gunrag about this procedure?

Both QL and Load from a Disk can easily calculate the NET CASE VOLUME of ANY seated length as compared to the empty case volume.

As per normality, we get a woody over something that ISN'T thoroughly thought through and forget the basics.

OR...that if a thing can be done, WHETHER it SHOULD be done in the first place.

LUCK

You should PM 458 Only and buy a copy of his book about the .458 WM. He shoots a CZ550, which has a longer magazine box than a Model 70. He loads Barnes TSX bullets and uses a different groove for crimping, so his rounds are longer. As Foobar points out, this increases the case capacity. It helps that for some reason the .458 WM has a very long freebore.

This obviously works with a single shot, and .458 Only has applied the same principle to getting .458 WM ballistics from a 45-70 in single shot rifles.

But why bother? It's no trick at all to get 2200 fps with a 500 grain bullet from any ordinary .458 WM at factory-specified length. At the same pressures, the Lott is only about 70 fps faster.

What's the best powder for the .458 WM? I think it's AA2230. 458 Only uses H335. I've found practically no difference, but both are better than H4895.

Incidentally, with 350 grain TSXs I easily get 2700 fps with H4198 with my 22" barrel. It's a 30-06 on steroids.

Have loaded a CZ 550 458WM to Lott length and velocity for years with TSXs. If you find the reamer specs, the WM actually has the longer throat. But I would verify that with each rifle and work up carefully.
Will have my rifle opened up to a Lott chamber at some point, but it's tough to mess with a gun that shoots under an inch.

There was an article on this in Magnum Magazine a while ago as I recall. Guys used a longer overall length and loaded to higher specs - very close to the Lott.

Maybe contact their offices and get a back issue. I will post the issue date if I can locate it.

Thanks guys I have pm'ed 458only and he was very helpful with loading data basically the same as what Indy is saying. I will be leaving it as a 458wm cause it shoots under an inch and I have tons of brass for it now to try hard cast in it and some 405 remingtons to see how they shoot. Anyone know a cheap source for the remington 405's in Canada? thx.

The lighter bullets are where my 458WM comes up short. With the long WM throat the accuracy falls off, really prefers 450gn TSX or longer. Hope you have better success with 405gns.

I've not done it with a 458. I do have a 410 wildcat using 06 Cylinder brass. Using 2.65" cases or 2.45" and the same OAL my net capacity is the same as are velocities. The longer case allows me to use the factory cannelure and the majority of my magazine length. Running the lott and a 3.6" 458 through QL gives only about a 1 gr lighter load for the 458 and basically the same velocity.

QL makes a lot of assumptions. I'd opt for running a lott reamer in my 458 or better yet load it as a 458wmag.

Yup, load my mod.70 pretty warm. I'll probably Lott it at some point as it's opened up now.
but it shoots so good I hate to mess with it. Loading way over .458 length of coarse.

Seating the bullet farther out in the 458 Win case to the same OAL lenght as the 458 Lott will give the same powder capacity, but doesn't that make the rounds too long for the magazine? Effectively turning the rifle into a single shot

quote:

but doesn't that make the rounds too long for the magazine?

It will depend on the rifle and magazine. A normal mauser for sure too short. A M70 could have the spacer removed and bolt stop and ejector shortened. I think the 700 would work. If you are going to the trouble to make a magazine work why not just make it a Lott.

I always load my #1 Lott down to WM levels for shooting. There is a big difference in recoil w/ the #1 in that small 200fps difference.

500gr @ 2050 is fun in a #1.

500gr @ 2250 becomes abusive in a #1.

Unless I'm hunting for tusks, WM levels in a #1 Lott are just fine.