I have Loading data from two people now who claim that RL-15 is the best powder they have used in the Lott. I have no reason to doubt that as both are credible guys, one posts here very often.

I use a lot of RL-15 already in other rifles so if it does work great It will save me from having to stock up on another powder. If you have used RL-15 in the Lott post your loads here( and barrel length) for me so I can get an idea of the velocity based on barrel lengths. Mine has a 22" barrel. I should continue to test it much more end of the month. I would like some additional loading data with RL-15 from you guys though

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Be very patient, remember the second mouse gets the cheese

JJHACK,

I think the best Hercules powder for .458 Lott is RE-7. I used powder similar than RE-7 for my .450 Ackley with a 500 gr bullet 80 gr of powder for a velocity of 2350 fps. With my CZ with a 25" barrel.

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BER007
Keep the faith in any circumstances
------------------------
BBER007@HOTMAIL.COM

JJ,
I worked with a Lott some time back, and here is what I came up with at the time.
84.0 gr IMR-4320 Avg. 2272 fps
83.0 gr IMR-4064 Avg, 2244 fps
84,0 gr IMR-4064 Avg. 2262 fps
84.0 gr Rl #15 Avg 2170 fps
I also shot a .458 Winchester load in th Lott chamber that was 2040 fps in the .458 WIN. In the LOTT it was 2014fps.
There may be some better powders out there, but I did not find that RL #15 was one of them. I have heard that VARGET may give a little more Vel.
George

George Hoffman,

I have received an e-mail form Phil Hodgdon regarding load for .458 Lott with his powders:

"Cartridges of the world lists the following:
500 grain bullet 79 grains of IMR4064. Varget is about the same burning
rate as IMR4064, so you can safely reduce the load to 72 grains and work it
back up to the maximum load."

But regarding IMR powder I think IMR 3031 as best choice for .458 Lott and 80 gr of this powder with a velocity 2300 fps for a 500 gr bullet as max load.

------------------
BER007
Keep the faith in any circumstances
------------------------
BBER007@HOTMAIL.COM

I have wrung out the 458 Lott and the only powder for that caliber according to my chronograph is IMR-4320...same as George...

I got considerably more velocity from my 26" barrel with 84 grs. at 2360 FPS and in one individual gun I got 2500 with 85 grs in a 26" barrel and that was an exceptional fast barrel...i loaded it down to 82 grs for 2300 even...

Imr-4320 is the only powder I could get 2300 FPS in all my test...couldn't get it with RL-15 or RL 7 and got some pretty high pressures with the RL powders when I got up close to 2300....couldn't get squat with IMR 4064 or other IMR powders.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

I've used RE-7 & 15 in the Lott and they are not bad, but after trying IMR 3031 with the barnes bullets. I'm sticking to 3031.

I found IMR-3031 to be what I needed in getting reasonable speeds from my 23" barreled Lott. 4320 was too compressed and just didn't deliver the speeds I thought necessary.

Your mileage may vary.

Why ya�lls spending all that time building a Lott when you could have a .450 Dakota with all that extra case capacity? The .450 Dakota case is only 0.1" longer. Its got a useful shoulder and a nice taper. No dang belt. You can use some nice, slow H-4831 achieving less pressure. You can get 2450 fps out of a 24" tube if you wanted without even leaning on the load. Seems like a lot (Lott) of trouble if you asked me.

Just pullin ya�lls legs a little...

Seriously, I would have loved to meet Jack Lott. He was quite a character with a very mysterious past. He never bragged and was very smug about his accomplishments. His �work� during the Rhodesian bush wars was legendary. Would have been fun sharing stories around the camp fire with him.

Nickudu has some good loads with RL-7 using a 450gr solida and sp. I have them but I prefer he post them since he developed them.

My load 90 gr VV N540 behind 500 gr bullets shows 2400 f/s from a 26" barrel. My loads are pressure tested by a government�s proof institute.
Of course it is easier to achieve those velocities with .450 Dakota or other big cases. But sometimes you are restricted to the small H&H case with respect to the magazine capacity of the rifle.
3031 I use for lighter loads and had no real success with 4320.

------------------

I'm with BER007 as RL-7 worked out best in my particular rifle using molycoated Barnes bullets.

JohnS,
You had better check your chronograph!! As I recall your a David Miller fan, give him a call on the right powder for the Lott...He uses 84 grs. of IMR-4320 for 2350 FPS in a shorter tube than mine...I know of no other powder that will safly get 2350 out of the Lott.

BTW, Miller does not line his magazine boxes with Ebony as has been quoted on the 458 Lott. He uses Epoxy and glass beds the box along with the action...not a bad idea.

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Ray-
I couldn't get 84grs 4320 in the case and still seat bullets over it. With my mag box I could only load to a COL of 3.590"MAX, and this made severe case trimming a necessary evil. We tried everything and found 3031 gave me an honest 2300fps over three different chrono's. These were warm loads and I loaded down to 2275fps for hunting.
Yes, I am a fan of Miller, but never have owned any of his rifles. Anybody that can pile up the accolades he has will get a tip of the hat from me.

Gentlemen:
This is from the, "what it is worth dept."
I have in my possession a hand written letter with David Miller Co. at the top of the page.
He or they??? list loads only with IMR 4320 using 25-23-22" barrels. His best loads with a 22" barrel is 2355 fps none of the loads in a 25" barrel exceded 2369 fps.
I have another data sheet that lists 500 gr bullets using Rl-15 @ 2262 fps and IMR 3031
@2294 and IMR 4320 2321 fps. Length is not specified.
I also have a letter signed by Jack Lott, that was sent to my friend Jerry Henderson, that states, as follows.
"My best load was given to gunsmith David Miller of Tucson, and from this he ran tests and proved that 4320-83 gr. w/Fed 215 Mag. primers and full crimp is as good as you can get. It simply is best to not try to get another 50-100 fps by increasing pressure and thus creating (depending on chamber) sticky extraction which is an evil to be avoided. David wanted a load that would produce 2300 sps in a 22" barrel and found it with 84 grains. We have discovereed thet an honest 2250 fps is more than enough penetration for buff and elephant"
.....
That is from Mr Lott himself. This is in keeping with my only conversation I had with him about a year before his passing.
George

[This message has been edited by George Hoffman (edited 02-15-2002).]

Great post George, As most of yours are! I knew Jack only used a 22" barrel and he had a favorite load of 500 grains @ 2250 because much of an article he wrote was reprinted in Magnum Magazine a few years ago. I had and may still have that issue here. Seeing so many powders get 2250 with a 22" barrel makes the Lott very flexable. I'm sure the 4320 is a very good powder and likey the one that gets the highest velocity.

I find it amusing that the Lott in the testing between the 22" barrel and the 25" barrel had less then a 14fps maximum velocity difference! I built mine to the specs he set forth in that issue of Magnum based on his years of experience with it. He mentioned in that article all powder would be burned in the first 18-20" of barrel length so additional length was not any benifit. (his opinion)

It should be easy to achieve 2250 with 500 grain bullets and he seemed to think it was plenty of penetration. He's a hard guy for me to second guess!jj

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It seems there is never enough time to do things right, but always enough time to do them over

Like George this is from the what it's worth department.Having fired well over 2700 Lott rounds I felt I might as well comment. IMR 4320 and a 500gr bullet makes a pretty good load.However a number of rifles we have built have shot into the .600 range with both soft and solids using H-4895 at the same velosity levels with less pressure.I have also found the same with H-Varget. With those three powders one can find a dual load that will preform with any particular rifle. I have had some Lotts shoot a 4320 load in the 4" range and then try one other other two powders I listed and have it shoot well under an inch. I am satisfied if the hot temp. working loads are in the 2240-2275fps range.Last spring I picked up a can of 4320 that gave me a whopping 2100fps ? Needless to say that can of 4320 took a vacation.I have tried R-7,R-12,R-15,4064,3031,v-540,etc and still return to the three basics.

D'Arcy-
That can of 4320 must have come from the same batch as mine!

Bullet length is being overlooked entirely. If one desires to shoot the Hornady or Speer 500 grainers he'll wind up with a different "Best" powder than he would if he wanted to shoot the Barnes 500 grainers. I can't get 80 grains of 4320 under the Barnes, let alone the 84 grains mentioned. I was compelled to try faster and faster powders and I tried them all. RL-7 didn't quit driving until well into the 2,300 range.

[This message has been edited by Nickudu (edited 02-15-2002).]

Bullet length is a definite issue in this cartridge. It isn't the end all to the velocity problem that many would like to believe. With today's modern loadings giving the 458 an honest 2100+ I frankly don't see the Lott as any big deal. To get another 100-150fps you are still dealing with fairly high pressures and compressed charges.
Taking my own advice, I sold mine and graduated to the 450 Dakota. This cartridge or the 460Wby is a far easier deal to live with, IMO. Child's play to attain 2300fps, ANY bullet loads easily with NO powder compaction and you have multiple powder choices that all give the desired velocities.

I also like the 450 Dakota and I like the 460 G&A also. I particularly like the 404 case of the 460 G&A..

I allways wanted to just neck up the 404 to 45 cal and use it like that with a slopeing shoulder, but looking at my dummy case it doesn't have much shoulder that way but it should work as I don't think much shoulder is really required. It should feed and extract slicker n snot.

However, it's a moot question as I have gone back to the 416 and 404 Jefferys as I can just shoot them a bit better..

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Ray-
In between the Lott and 450 Dakota I hunted with a 460G&A. It was a good cartridge and delivered great velocities. fed well, etc BUT it's still a damned wildcat and I've come to appreciate factory ammo availability, even if in limited amounts. So, the 460G&A went away and the 450 Dakota takes it's place.

JohnS,
What is the magazine capacity of you 450?
I have used 460 wby's with only two down and that got me in trouble, or almost two different times. One reason i would stay with the Lott would simply be for the 4 down 1 in chamber. I would take more if I could get it something like to old Bruno. I am just curious.
George

For what it's worth. I just came back from the range and these are results for my Lott. It has a 24" barrel.

RL-15 85gr
2232 fps
2228 fps
2218 fps
2227 fps

RL-15 86gr
2240 fps
2218 fps
2255 fps
2246 fps

RL-15 87gr
2275 fps
2283 fps
2272 fps
2257 fps
2281 fps

IMR 4320 86gr
2307 fps
2287 fps
2296 fps
2288 fps
2294 fps

The first two groups I only had four rounds due to the fact I had difficulty crimping with the RCBS dies. I've got to get a Lee Factory Crimp die made.

George-
My 450 holds 3 down with room to depress the top one and chamber the fourth.

With some extra work you can convert a standard depth Mod 70 to hold 4 Lott rounds down and 1 in the chamber without the aid of a drop magazine. If you add the drop magazine you get 5 down and 1 up. I have a PH buddy that hunts in East Africa and has run his Lott magazine dry a couple times convincing animals to stay put.I would opt for the extra round but I'm a chicken and go by the saying "WHEN THERE'S BULLETS IN THE AIR, THERE'S HOPE"

Longbob, 22 posts and I finally get what I was after! Thanks for the data and the effort to share it.

D'Arcy,

Would you give us your H4895 loads and velocities? I'm picking some up this afternoon and I would like to compare it to my IMR4320 loads. So far I haven't had any pressure signs. I'm not comfortable with how compressed the 86 grains of IMR4320.

D'Arcy,
I love that saying about bullets in the air and hope. I just did not know what I was doing on several occassions but that was without doubt it!
I am still laughing.
Right after marksmanship goes to hell just put lead out there and hope something runs over it!

Longbob,
I would start at 80grs and a 500gr bullet then proceed with caution.The amount of powder will depend on the amount of freebore,chamber specs,temp,etc.99.99% of our Lotts HAVE 24" barrels and will yield 2250-2280fps with H-4895. A button rifled barrel such as a Douglas will always allow a higher Velosity than a cut rifle barrel most likely due to the shallower grove depth and 2300fps is often possible with safe hot weather loads.Swift soft points will always max out pressure wise at or near 2250fps due to the properties of the jacket material.The Woodleigh soft point amd FMJ can be driven faster as a rule.I have had excellent luck regulating the Woodleigh FMJ into the same point of impact as the swift.

Longbob
I also use a 16" drop tube that really settles that powder

Thanks D'Arcy. I'll say hello to you at the Dallas show. I will also bring your pictures, if I can find them.

I would bet that Vihtavouri N540 will give superior velocity to Re15 in the Lott. It is a slightly denser powder and gives higher velocities in my Dakota. It is available in the US.

I have also tried Vit N540-N560 in hopes that it would give me an honest 2300fps with exceptable pressure. I did reach 2300fps in 90 degree temps with the N540 but it was way to hot a load, my first round belt expansion was .0025 and of the 3 rifles I tested the accuracy averaged 3". I have no doubt that in other rifles it may be just the ticket but my attempts only gave me a sore shoulder. When I start shooting and the range temp. goes over 90 degrees allot of my "great loads" haven't been so great.I once had a copy of the loading notes that Chet Brown had compiled while testing his Lotts. He also used IMR-4320 and tested loads in at least some 23-25-27" barrels.Some of his velosities went well beyond 2300fps with this powder.He also blew a Rem 700 to bits while shooting it off his shoulder. The notation next to that load read,"Dangerous,to hot, don't try again". I have only seen one Elephant shot with a Lott,this was in Botswana and the bull was hit with a classic broadside shot to the shoulder area at 18 yards with a 500 Woodleigh FMJ. As near as I could tell it had no visible effect, a second shot was then directed to the bulls brain from the same rifle. This bullet missed the intented target but did cause the bull to spin 90 degrees and face the "team". The PH at that point became concerned for his own safety and drilled the brain with a 500gr Hornady FMJ fired from his 450 Watts. The result was instant, the bull sat down and everybody cleaned out thier shorts.As both rifles shot the the same weight bullets at the same velosity of almost equal construction I was reminded once again that bullet placement is more critical and important than the sum total of all the gear and mental masturbation.The Lott is a very impressive round indeed, it hits hard,and can be made to shoot very well. On the down side it wrecks scopes, tears up mounts, breaks stocks and is a bitch to shoot enough to become comfortable with.If your day job puts you in harms way with truck size wildlife and the carrot patch needs to be defended from a pissed off herd of elephants it's a great choice. But if you're only going to shoot one or two elephants in your future any 416 starts to look allot more practical.

D'Arcy, that is a great post, and fits my opion perfectly.
George
P.S. Do you plan to be at the DSC????
I will be there for one day only on the 8Th
on my way to Alanta for treatment.
Thanks.

[This message has been edited by George Hoffman (edited 02-20-2002).]

I recieved my 425 grain Hardcast gas checked bullets from Beartooth bullets yesterday. I figure I will be shooting a lot of these and likely use them when working my plains game hunts. I have only used 500's in my Lott so far but I think these 425's will be a nice recoil reduction for practice shooting as well. Any idea on loads for the 425 grain bullets. These have taper from the crimp to the front with a sharp edge and a glass flat front. They will blow through like a paper punch! They are a prototype and not for sale yet. I'll be testing them in Afrcia and on targets over the next few weeks and then when I'm in Afrcia this spring and summer. They should be listed on the beartooth site by summer(American summer)

In my mind I would think 2400-2500fps should be a nice load. That is nearly 6000fpe with a 22 brinell hard cast gas checked bullet with a flat point. Now to sort out some loads!

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It seems there is never enough time to do things right, but always enough time to do them over

Update! I tried a new powder per D'Arcy Echols suggestion and he was dead right. These are the results of H4895 out of my 24" barrel Winchester M70 458 Lott. These are Hornady 500 gr FMJ.

80 gr.
2235 fps
2234 fps
2258 fps
2261 fps
2266 fps

82 gr.
2314 fps
2287 fps
2307 fps
2294 fps
2285 fps

83 gr.
2320 fps
2324 fps
2341 fps
2343 fps
2344 fps

84 gr.
2318 fps
2330 fps
2344 fps
2370 fps
2363 fps

The groups cut in half and the powder at 83 grains or less was not compressed. I think I have found my powder.

********************************************

For what it's worth. I just came back from the range and these are results for my Lott. It has a 24" barrel.
RL-15 85gr
2232 fps
2228 fps
2218 fps
2227 fps

RL-15 86gr
2240 fps
2218 fps
2255 fps
2246 fps

RL-15 87gr
2275 fps
2283 fps
2272 fps
2257 fps
2281 fps

IMR 4320 86gr
2307 fps
2287 fps
2296 fps
2288 fps
2294 fps

********************************************

I copied the above from my prior post for comparative purposes. Just for grins, I'll post some more results for your reading pleasure. These are some other loads I was testing while waiting on the Lott to cool off.

460 Weatherby, 26" barrel, and muzzle brake (thank goodness!). 500 gr. Hornady FMJ.

IMR 4350

120.8 gr.
2546 fps
-0- Error
2591 fps

123 gr.
2646 fps
2659 fps
2661 fps

IMR 4320
107.8 gr.
2560 fps
2555 fps
2589 fps

113 gr.
2685 fps
2680 fps
2667 fps

Factory 500 gr. FMJ
2625 fps.

375 H&H Winchester M70 Stainless and 24" barrel. Federal Premium 300 gr. Nosler Partitions.

2481 fps
2484 fps
2468 fps

I don't know what was more tedius. Firing those rounds or typing this post.

If you notice the 82 gr. of H4895 has almost identical readings to the 86 gr. of IMR 4320. There were no pressure signs. the bolt would flip up and fall open with all of the H4895 loads.

Longbob, thanks again. I have plenty of H4895 to try and will load some up to shoot next chance I get. Now for a 425 grain load to work on.

"Now for a 425 grain load to work on."

Man! Are you sending me out again? This is like homework. My head will rattle for sure.

Longbob, where have you been hiding with my 425 grain loads? I sent you out with a job and you have yet to reply!

I'll see what I can do today and I'll report back here.jj