I am Lt. handed and I have (had) two Win. M70 CRF in 375 H&H so I did the next logical thing in my mind -- rebore one to a 416 Rem mag, which I had done by Danny Pederson in Prescott AZ. I've had a couple of 416's over the years in Rigby and Rem. mag and think very highly of the 416 being one of the best calibers for a one rifle safari to Africa when mixing DG and tipping over some PG for the pot.
Anyway let me get to the point. I am very aware of the chamber pressures of the 416 Rem. mag in extreme heat being problematic for some. Of course a CRF action does eliminate extraction problems for the most part.

Question: I'm still wondering, has anyone downloaded this caliber into the 2280-2300 fps velocity range (thus dropping the pressure below the 52,000+ CPU range) and found the penetration on buff or elephant to be more than adequate?

Of course I need to add that my soft point bullets of choice are 400g Swifts and solids are Woodies or TBSH. I know someone's going to ask, so I use R-15 powder for this round which I believe to be a good powder for this caliber all things considered (I use this powder for my 375, 505G, and 500 N.E. keeps things simple).

I could probably answer my own question by looking at the terminal effects of the 404J and the 450-400 N.E. with lower velocities and deduct that it should work just fine BUT I wanted to here from some who have done it in the field.

"Condemnation before investigation proves ignorance"

Don_G used pretty much that set up for his trip.

With my 416 Rem I always shoot it at 2410 FPS. That puts it over 5000 FT. LBs of pressure. Recoil isn't bad either.

quote:

That puts it over 5000 FT. LBs of pressure

Wrong!

This answer is slightly off, but we took a Wby
.416 to Tanz., loaded to 2300-2350fps, and the
performance was fantastic. We used Woodleigh
soft and solids, and took a variety of plains
game, and a one shot kill on a nice cape buffalo.
Good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by jro45:
With my 416 Rem I always shoot it at 2410 FPS. That puts it over 5000 FT. LBs of pressure. Recoil isn't bad either.

What is Foot Pounds of pressure?? That is a form of measurement that I have never heard off being used before....

Obviously he was making a reference to muzzle energy........

Load them to 2400 fps.

All this crap about the African heat is just that.

I have used my 416 Rem Mag (Model 70) here in the Northern Territory on Australian Waterbuff last year.

With 400gn Woodleigh softs & 410 gn Woodeligh solids and using local powder (ADI 2208) at 2300-2350 I certainly had no problems with penetration with mine on Waterbuff.

It worked exteremely well - no signs of pressure at all and reasonable on the shoulder. My loads are about 4 grains under max for my rifle.

I will not hesitate to take mine to Africa with exactly the same load.

During load development I left my rounds in the sun until they really got hot before firing and it made not the slightest bit of difference.

I agree with Will about the African heat - unless, possibly you hotload them in the first place you will have no problems and 2300 to 2350 with Rel 15 will be easily obtainable - I tried Rel 15 in my rifle but ended up sticking with the local powder as there was very little difference in performance.

Since I have only been to Africa once, more than 20 years ago, I cannot speak with too much authority, but how much hotter does it get than central Florida in the summer? I've hunted in July in Florida with my .416 Rem with loads that clocked just under 2400 fps with zero extraction issues.......

Will,

Glad you posted, I know you've shot a mess of buffalo and elephant with the 416. Most of the extraction problems I've heard about occured with Remington push feed rifles.

/

ALF -- I chronographed Federal Cape Shock .416 Rem ammo a couple of years ago out of my Whitworth with a 24-inch barrel and it consistently ran at right around 2,350 fps.

I bought a Rem 700 in 416 Rem just after they first came to Australia...probably around 1990 or so. The 400 grain Swift bullet in the Remington factory load did 2410 f/s across Oehler. No problems with extraction.

Using AR2208 (Varget), which was probably a little different back then I went to 2500 f/s without problems, using both fired Rem factory brass and necked up/fireformed Winchester 375 brass.

I would not be suprised if reported extraction problems were caused by some Rem 700s that may have had very poor primary extraction, which some do. The extractor is galled and probably the bolt handle not correctly positioned.....perhaps compounded if some cases had thinner than normal rims.

Mike

I have been shooting the .416 Rem on buffalo for about 15 years off and on and mostly on. I have about decided it is the best of all worlds when you take everything into consideration.

After a lot of consideration and experimentation I settled on 78 grs. of RL-15 at about 2408 FPS 10 shot average taking the high and the low out , I have never had a hitch in that load and it kills exceptionally well. It is a very mild load in all of my guns..I can shoot 82 grs. without a problem and have on several ocassions, but the difference on game between 78 and 82 is non existant, that extra whatever is zilch in added effect as for as I can tell.

It is just a great caliber and probably the most practical of all factory rounds IMO. I have always shot a 26" barrel, but my latest is a 20" and the chronograph shows 2371 FPS 10 shot average, high and low out...Not much difference..

I have used the .404 at about 2200 FPS and it worked fine, but I believe it killed slower and didn't seem to thump then as hard as when I loaded it up to 2400 FPS plus, and/or 2600 FPS, Recoil at 2600 was a little severe for me. so I settled on 2450 FPS in the .404

I did notice that Swift bullets have a soft jacket and tend to build more pressure than Woodlieghs or Northforks in all calibers, and its probably a good idea to cut them back a grain or two if your loading max, for what its worth.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Load them to 2400 fps.

All this crap about the African heat is just that.

Yup

Good post Ray, I shoot 400s in my Mod. 70 in front of 80 grs. Rel. 15. No sign of pressure and sub inch 3 shot groups. Zero African experience but in my first 416 Rem. I used 91 grs. Rel. 15 for Moose/Elk with the 300 X. Went 2900+ fps and worked very well. That was back around '90 or so and .416 bullets weren't quite as plentiful. Over the winter I'll work on the 350 TSXs and leave the 400s for my CZ Rigby.

Norma's African PH ammo has arrived. ALL the bolt gun loads are heavy bullets for caliber at moderate velocities w/lower pressure. OK for PG and perfect for DG. How on earth can the 416Rem be a POS and the 375 H&H not, they're both belted high pressure rounds. Because there WERE NO push feeds, just mausers.

Showbart, You made a comparison between the 375 H&H and the 416 rem. mag., yes, they are both high pressure rounds but the 375 has much more taper in the case thus less extraction problems, if any, than the straighter cased 416.

quote:

Originally posted by dirklawyer:
Showbart, You made a comparison between the 375 H&H and the 416 rem. mag., yes, they are both high pressure rounds but the 375 has much more taper in the case thus less extraction problems, if any, than the straighter cased 416.

Nah, Dirk, I'm not convinced the difference in taper is/was ever truly worrisome.

In Africa, I'd have no second thoughts about loading the 400's down to a pleasant 2150-fps.
I'd love to try that some day but probably never will, since I'm too fond of bigger calibers.
There is nothing over there, that combination won't take down provided good shot placement.
Just a .450-400 in a bolt-gun.

quote:

Originally posted by Pegleg:

quote:

That puts it over 5000 FT. LBs of pressure

Wrong!

okay 5160 ft-lb .. of force, not pressure