PC- you know that's a darn good idea to have Pac-Nor do everything. With a reamer in hand they could easily whip out a bunch of barrels. For the purists, I do know that they use a Geometric Die head to cut the CZ 550 2mm threads and I use single point tools, but it takes me probably 5 times as long and on a short range cannon like this it would make no difference. Pac-Nor knows how to make long chambered barrels. I know they will make integral muzzel brakes, but not removable ones. I could probably do that for folks who are interested. I'll call Pac-Nor tomorrow and see what price they would quote. whoever is really interested let me know by E-mail.
500 grains- When I machined the protoype cartridge, I cut the primer pocket and there is more than enough room for a .50BMG primer. I don't know if a CZ firing pin spring will reliably fire one though. Once I have built a prototype gun I can easily address that issue.-Rob

]

[ 08-06-2002, 22:51: Message edited by: Robgunbuilder ]

Rob-the-howitzer-builder ,

I'm in. I'll want a barrel and dies. I understand you not wanting to build the finished rifles...you'd have to change your handle. I can't wait to see the look on my smith's face when I tell him what's coming!

E-mail coming your way.

PC & Robgunbuilder,
Did you guys even read the 11th reply on this subject regarding PAC-NOR?!?!?!(it was by me 4 days ago):

quote:

---

Rob-
Way cool. If I didn't already have a .577 T-Rex to slap my brain around in this thick head of mine, I'd be on the 'list' for one.

I really like the design of the round and due to the size it will single stack in the popular CZ 550 mag magazine. ***Also, barrels & smithing from PAC-NOR would be reasonably priced.*** Bravo my good man!

For brass, you could also try Rockey Mountain Cartridge (RMC http://www.rockymountaincartridge.com/ ). They made some .577 Snider brass (lathe turned) for me this spring and can do almost anything. They specialize in old/obsolite calibers however I asked them about T-Rex brass and they said 'sure, just get me the dimensions' (I also asked about .600NE and they said 'sure'). Horneber would be best, but if it doesn't pan out RMC could be a viable second choice with the correct headstamp.

Kudo's on the idea & follow through, great design.

BMG

---

For pete's sake do I need to shout

To quote Rodney Dangerfield "I don't get no respect"

[ 08-06-2002, 19:52: Message edited by: BMG ]

Rob,

Please put me down for one barrel. Let me know when you want the money.

I wonder if Horneber would make brass for it.

Rob- How much powder does the .600 Overkill take and what does the .600 NE take...?

BMG- My apolgies, I forgot to acknowledge your reccomendation! It was and still is a great idea!. I'll call Pac-Nor today and get some prices. It would appear that at least six of us are in on this thing. For Brass, I'm sure Horneber could make some as the design is simple and straight-foreward. However, before we order, let's see how he did with the NYATI brass. I will also do the experiment with the .50BMG primer in some old NYATI brass to see if this will work. I have my doubts, but that never stopped me from a good experiment. Of course everyone realizes that to use .50BMG primers,they will need a custom primer seater or a RCBS ammomaster press!
Overkill- The .600 Overkill should hold about 160-170 grs of powder. I believe it will be about the same as a .600NE, however,remember, the .600 NE was designed for a max of about 1950 fps with a 900 gr bullet( since it was used in low pressure double rifles) and the .600 Overkill is designed for the magic 2400 fps mark at the 55,000 psi range to be used in a bolt action rifle. . I also believe the addition of the belt makes for a stronger cartridge design. remember where this all started, in that a .600 NE would be extremely difficult to get to work in anything other than a single shot bolt action or single shot rifle. We wanted a rifle that will hold at least as many rounds as your 460 WBY.-Rob

[ 08-06-2002, 22:30: Message edited by: Robgunbuilder ]

Robgunbuilder...!

Does the old .600 NE take more powder than the .600 Overkill...?

Robgunbuilder...!

Oh... What a nice picture...! Think my web name is a cartridge...

Robgunbuilder...!

There is one problem...!

It is only Woodleigh and Barnes that make bullets in caliber .620 I am sure the Woodleigh will hold togheter better than the Barnes bullet. But will the Woodleigh 900 grain soft point hold togheter in 2400-2500 f/s...? If you shoot at game??? It will expand that is sure...

Is there any other .620 bullets on the market...?

BMG,

I'm like George Kastanza arn't I stealing the credit for the Pac-Nor idea Sorry mate.

Rob I am keen to, but I reckon the prototype needs be built and tested first to see if it really does work. I do not reckon us Aussies would have access to .50 BMG primers as well if they did work in it.

OK Folks - I just talked to Pac-Nor ( THEY ARE THE GREATEST). They will do all the work and will give us a substantial discount. They will make .600- 4140 Chrome-moly barrels ,Pre-Fit(threaded for the CZ-550, Correctly chambered for the .600 Overkill, but short shouldered) in their number 8 contour ( 1.2 inch shank, 1 inch at the muzze barrelsl) with and without their muzzel break. If we can get 11 ( or more) of us together on this thing the price will be $254.00/barrel and with their brake $384/barrel. Their brakes are integral, but work pretty well. Another possibility is to get George Vias to make some of his breaks, but the price will be sbstantially higher as George's breaks are threaded on and about $210 apiece. I have added into this price the assumption that we all split the cost of the reamer and headspace guage. Once this set of barrels are made, I will keep the reamer,but will make the headspace guage available to you upon request. A gunsmith will have to set the final headspace by moving the shoulder of the barrel ( a trivial step). We get discounts up to 20% with 11 barrels, 15% for 6-11 and 10% for 5. There is no discount on the machine work. This is a great deal in my opinion, as I would personally have charged $400-$500 to do this work. It would also have taken alot longer.
If you are truly serious about this ( no backing out), let me know by E-mail and we will go from there. You will have till September 1st to get in on this. As I'm off to Zim and won't get back till then.
Overkill I assume you want one? By the way here are some pictures of a .600 Woodleigh bullet after splitting a 50 lb oak log. They turn into LARGE lead balls at that velocity but work pretty darn well. I am also in the process of making a bullet mold for Hard cast .600 bullets in Linotype so that won't be a problem.-Rob



[ 08-07-2002, 01:29: Message edited by: Robgunbuilder ]

I'm in. Please check your email.

One other option for bullets is Beartooth. They make a 1040gr. LFN sized at .622. They are $15.50 for 20. Expensive for cast bullets, but still cheaper than woodleighs. I saw Rob is building a mold, but here's just one other route.
Good luck on the project.
300H&H.

Rob,

Have a great time on your Zim trip. Thanks for your efforts and I look forward to seeing this beast become a reality.

I vote for a Vias (either gen 1 or his new one) removable brake but will go with the majority on it if needed.

John

I'm in. Not sure about the muzzle brake though. Would it be possible too shoot this monster without one?. Stuff three Mercury tubes in the stock maybe?. I'm assuming the muzzle brake option would be up to the individual. Or would we all need to agree on a set design?

efryman-I suspect that Pac-Nor would be very flexible and would put brakes on some barrels and not others. They might be also talked into threading the muzzels for a Vias Break. George is fond of 7/8X 24TPI threads for his big breaks and it would be best if Pac-Nor does the muzzel threading while they still have a 60 degree center. This is how I want mine set up. I'm sure they would be happy to not install a break, but realize this thing will generate about 300 ft-lbs of recoil at full tilt Boogie. A good break is needed to reduce this to the 150 ft-lb level which is tolerable. obviously the more weight you add to the gun the lower the recoil. I have never had to resort to mercury tubes yet, but there is no reason you could not install them. It will just take alot of them to match the use of a good muzzel brake. Georges new break also isn't all that loud IMHO. You could also just load it down with a slow burning powder like H50BMG to the .600NE level for example.-Rob

Rob,

That's more than fair about the reamer and headspace gauge. $384 with a brake! What a deal! Wow, my first +458 gun, and it's gonna be a honker! I appreciate you working out the prototype for us. Thanks. What if any barrel length limitations are we working with? Does the whole order (of barrels) have to come out the same? I'm thinking 24" not including the brake...so I don't know how long that would be with a (?) Pac-nor brake on it? What do the rest of the "in" group think barrel length should be? I'm all for a heavy profile barrel of at least 1" at the muzzle, the heavier the better.

Robgunbuilder,
You've got mail!

I've always wanted to build a .475LTD, this seems even sicker! I mean, better!

Robgunbuilder...!

I SURE want one but I dont have enough money and time yet... I am going to buy my Big Bore in year 2008 Because I dont know if it will come a lead ban. So we here in sweden have to use only leadfree bullets like the Barnes X bullet.

What velocity was it on the bullet in the picture? and how much weight was left? and how big expanded diameter in mm was it?

Robgunbuilder...!

How long will the barrel be in those .600 Overkill rifles? and what will be the MAX velocity...?

Rob,

What length will the barrels be and could it be aranged just to have a barrel threaded and with a trim ring so break can be added at a later date ?

I would like to have a 25" or 26" barrel before break.

Was chrome moly the only option or was stainless barels to dear ??

Also Rob what do you mean by short shouldered ?? How will this effect say my smith here in Melbourne screwing this all together ??

Also Rob what was the verdict on the primer issue ?? Is the BMG primer a goer or can Federal 215's do the trick?? I do not think us Aussies can get .50 BMG primers (I'm not sure)

[ 08-07-2002, 15:25: Message edited by: PC ]

How will the penetration be in the .600 Overkill...?

caliber .700 with a 1000 grain bullet have a SD of .292

caliber .620 with a 900 grain bullet have a SD of .334

caliber .577/585 with a 750 grain bullet have a SD of .313

caliber .510 with a 570 grain bullet have a SD of .313

But how will the penetration be when the 900 grain Woodleigh SP bullet expand...???

Good job Rob!

Unfortunately I will not be able to go in on the deal. Possibly further down the road, but not now (by the way I already have a gun being rechambered at Pac-Nor as we speak, it's a great addiction to have isn't it). I'll just have to make do with my secondhand .577 Lizzard gun . Although definately let me know when you work out the cases (drawn/turned/etc) as I'll want 'some'.

Also, as for projectiles, they can be turned from barstock on a CNC machine (or a lathe but it will be slower and not as uniform). They will be cheaper than anything out there that can be pushed at full speed, if you want to that is .

I am eagerly following this thread and want to say again, good job Rob!

BMG

ps. Overkill, sell your .460 Wby (or other guns, car, firstborn, etc) if you need to. This is a round that bears your handle! What a gun & story to have.

I'm sure Pac-Nor would cut a barrel to any size you want and would be willing to adjust the batch accordingly.Remember, they will want more money for custom threading etc. This might be something that you want your smith to do separately. Thus, I really reccomend we stick with 27 inch barrels, 1 inch at the muzzel as a standard. I suspect that we all have to go Stainless steel or chrome moly. I think their stainless prices are about $100 more than chrome moly and I wanted to keep the price down.I have no objections if everyone wants SS and will anti up. Personally, I want a 27 inch barrel threaded for a vias break. and 1 inch at the muzzel. You really want as much weight as possible in this thing.
Overkill- I second the suggestion that you sell your 460WBY ( popgun by the new standard) and get in on this. Heck, I'll make you some brass bullets if they ban lead in sweden.-Rob

I would vote for chrome moly and not stainless. To me stainless barrels are plain ugly on a rifle, and it's gonna be bad enough to have to look at a brake on it, let alone if it's stainless. I'm really not wanting it in stainless guys. I'm still going for the brake...call it a survival instinct...! I think 27" sounds a little too long, maybe make it too nose heavy? But if everyone else wants that length, I'll go along with it.

Rob, what is the count as far as who is officially "in" on this? Does it look like we will make a dozen?

Hey Overkill, how could you possibly NOT get in on this?? After all your namesake is on it?! Sell that weatherby squirrel rifle and ante up man!

Robgunbuilder...!

Thanks, but I will wait for some year...! But I want you to post pictures of the .600 Overkill gun when it is finnish. And when I am going to buy my real BIG BORE in 2008 or before, then it maybe is a .700 BMG IMPROVED loaded with 1200 grain bullets to 2600 f/s...

Do you think that the Heym Express rifle in caliber .600 NE will get the same velocitys as the .600 Overkill...???

// Overkill

NUTS, NUTS, NUTS, NUTS, but we do love it

This round will be a real kick in the pants

Cheers
/JOHAN

Is the Heym 600 NE bolt a push feed or a controlled feed?

Overkill- If you don't get in on this I am going to change the name. You will never have a better offer than this. I'd sell my car before I'd miss out on this project. You've done the math and the ballistics, you know exactly what it is. What's holding you back? Can I help?-Rob

Robgunbuilder...!

I will wait to year 2008. Then I see what I am going to have...! Then I have enough money to. Please dont change the name...

Go and look at your profile I have send you a private message...!

Thanks...!

2008?
Is that when you become of legal age?
s

That's what I thought when 2008 was mentioned

If Overkill doesn't get one, strip the round of his namesake!

2008 is a little odd alright. But if Overkill is only 15 I'd be a little surprised.

Early parole date, maybe?

I'm just kiddin', Overkill, but you really should find a way to make this happen. Sell that darn 460, and trade up.

I'd sure like to see this thing named the 600 Overkill, but if you're just gonna wait to get a 700 BMG Improved made in a few years, this one obviously ain't good enough for you.

Canuck

I think we should have a raffle to buy Overkill a plane ticket to the UAE where he can shoot Saeed's 577 tyrannosaur with max loads and the .700 NE bolt gun that Saeed built.

Overkill,

2008 and leadcore bullets being banned in Sweden is not a problem and for 3 reasons.

Firstly, you have 6 years of leadcore use.

Secondly, it is my understanding that you will be able to use lead core bullets if there is no alternative for the caliber.

Thirdly, to get solid copper bullets made in the numbers required would be easy to do.

In fact I was into a 600 bolt action I would have some copper bullets made along the following line so as to reduce recoil and allow me a higher velocity if I so wanted.

I would start with a copper cyclinder and have the front drilled out for maybe a depth of half inch or so. Then I would have 2 slots cut across at 180 degrees ton each other. It would then only take a simply die to swage that bullet into a semi pointed style and you probably get weight down around 500 grains or so.

I have never one but i think this type of bullet would be similar in principle to what Barnes make for copper muzzleloading and pistol style bullets.

I do agree with the others that if you dud not get one than a caliber name change should immediately occur.

Mike

Sorry guys,

Not really adding anything important. Just a shameless act of promotion.

Back to top.

You know maybe one of us should get a couple of barrels, being that they are so cheap. 'Cause you know a pair of rifles is always nicer than one. Just a thought though. I'll be lucky if I can afford the one!

If anyone is interested I will make an install a brake like the one in the photo that I made for Sooner's 500 ne on his Ruger #1.

The cost is $150.00 + shipping. for your reference the barrel OD was .750 at the muzzle on his 500 ne Pac-Nor barrel. I understand that the muzzle OD on these .600 barrels will be 1 inch, same as the brake OD. The first 1" OD brake that can be called a slim line brake

[ 08-14-2002, 23:29: Message edited by: Bear Claw ]