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| One of Us |
I'm curious about express sights and real use of them. How many leafs would be appropriate on a .416 Rigby including 1 fixed? I'm confused using a bunch of blades with something that shoots fairly flat for a big caliber. 50, 100, 150 + 200? Seems too close together. 50, 100, 200 + 300? Who shoots a caliber like this that far with open sights? I'm not doubting, just trying to learn. Thanks. | ||
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| One of Us |
Keep it simple - get one fixed | |||
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one of us |
I don't know anyone who has a serious use for the folding blades anymore (although I'm sure there are dedicated practitioners somewhere on the planet). They are stylistic, for the most part. Back in the day when game was plentiful and wounding wasn't so frowned upon, colonial hunters would rely on them and bang away until something fell down. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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Moderator |
if *I* could specify what a big bore setup would be.. it would be 50, 200, and 25 .. not 250, 25 or 10! opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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One of Us |
I have one 50 yard fixed and one 100 yard folding on my .416 Rigby. I did use the folding leaf once on a 125 yard shot on a plains zebra in the Caprivi Strip. (My scope was broken, so I had to rely on the irons.) The real problem was the 3/32" front bead. it obscured a lot of the zebra. Still, with a little careful holding, I got him.  Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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| one of us |
IMO,you really only need two.The first one will have the same POI from 25yds out to 100yds.The second one should compensate for the drop from 100yds to 200yds.You can get a drop here of about 8 inches with a lott.It is interesting to note that this 200yd leaf will only raise the POI around 3 inches if used at 100yds instead of 200yds.You can choose to go with a third leaf just in case the first leaf is too low and you use the second to do its job for whatever reason.Having a third is better IMO,because it will not hurt since it will be folded down when not in use.So,I would label the first one(fixed) 25, 50 or 100,the second one 200 and the third one 300. | |||
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| One of Us |
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One of Us |
I think I'd just have a ghost ring set to cover me for POI from 25 to 75 yards | |||
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| One of Us |
I love the NECG express sights with the one standing and three folding. I file the standing sight in for 100 yards and never bother the rest. I just like how they look and the standing sight will do all you need with a big bore if you learn to shoot it. | |||
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| one of us |
This is when it gets confusing. The lads back then must have had laser eyes to distinguish the need of a new leaf from 50 to 1400 meters. The ladder really does go that far out there. An 8x60 magnum Bombe. Frank  | |||
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| One of Us |
That's the one I want! Simple. Set at 25,50,75,100,125,150...etc. A couple file strokes difference. As a matter of fact, the way I shoot all the groups would be the same at all the distances anyway. | |||
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| One of Us |
Having built a fair number of heavies, I find most savvy folks will want one standing at 50...(which means about dead on from muzzle to 75 or so) Sometimes a second for looks that I dope out at 150 | |||
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| One of Us |
I have a 577/450 cape gun that has 5 leaves. The first is for 50 yards and the last one is marked at 400 yards. Seems kind of optimistic. I guess that's how many you need. I have express sights on my 416T and my 375. On both I use the second and third one's for cast bullet loads. So for versatility three is nice. For shooting regular bullets, I just use the first one. I just am not that good with standard open sights at more than about 75 yards. If it's further than that away, I need to get closer if I'm using open sights. There are a number of folks on here who I suspect could use the other leaves to good effect, just not me. Bfly Work hard and be nice, you never have enough time or friends. | |||
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| One of Us |
Remember when Express sights were in their hayday there were not any scopes around. If you wanted to shoot something at long distance it was done with iron sights. A lot of the old Africa hunting books talk of shooting animals at long distance with express sights. I have several doubles with sights to 400 and 500 yards. My 450-400 has stamped on the barrel that left barrel shoots to sights to 400 yards. I know the 200 yard leaf is dead on. Now days one standing and one folding 50 and 100 yards is really all you need. | |||
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| one of us |
Here is the solution. H & H Style flip up. NECG sells them but the last one I bought I had to ask because it was not in the catalog. I have put them on most of my rifle builds from .277 to .510 to be scoped or not. I find them very accurate to my abilities. Frank   | |||
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| One of Us |
Most WWI era European military rifles had ladders. The rifles weren't even remotely accurate by modern standards beyond 300m. The outer orbit ladders were sort-of useful in volley fire from trench to hole to pit. Personally, I'd do a single fixed at 50 and POSSIBLY a folder at 100. The rest is decoration. | |||
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One of Us |
Wounding an animal was all part of practical long range shooting and unlimited bags back then as well. | |||
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| One of Us |
I admit that I have not killed any "dangerous" game (other than a black bear who had tried to just eat a porcupine and came at me -- and a mule deer who was literally charging me because I interupted him humping a doe and killed him 15 feet away with a shot to the top of his head) but I have hunted with express sights, buckhorn sites and peep sights, and I would take a good peep sight any day. Wide arpeture -- good bead, and the eye naturally centers the bead. Close up (inside 50 yards) when you see hair -- pull the damn trigger. Farther out, a peep sight is much more accurate than an open sight of any type and can accurately place shots at 300 yards. Barstooler | |||
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| One of Us |
Affirmative! | |||
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| one of us |
Take off the training wheels and shoot with open sights.They did everything better in the past and probably shot better too.Just imagine how important it was to shoot well with open sight back then with the wars and all. | |||
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| one of us |
Yeah. I know I shoot better with a leather and bronze helment than my WW II pot, too. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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| One of Us |
Maybe you can fly down and teach me ... cuz I can't hit anything with open sights.  | |||
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| one of us |
A folding ladder peep sight ... Combine that with the H&H front sight of Frank Martinez ... Hmmmm ...  Here is an original Buffalo Bill Lucretia Borgia "Needle Gun." 50-70 Govt., known as the Second Model Allin "Trapdoor." Conversion of Model 1863 Springfield percussion muskets to Trapdoor: The first centerfire US Army rifle/cartridge combo (from 1866 to 1873) is what Wiliam F. Cody made his reputation with. The earlier "Morse Conversion" of 1858 origin converted the Model 1816 musket to a .69 caliber rimfire. Only 54 were made from 1860-1861. "In the evolution of firearms, the Morse conversion is of particular importance as the first breechloading cartridge longarm." Robert W. D. Ball, "Springfield Armory Shoulder Weapons 1795-1968," p.77. First Model Allin Conversion, Model 1865, used the Model 1861 percussion musket converted to .58-caliber RF. Then finally the 1866 Second Model Allin in 50 caliber centerfire, with .50 caliber liner in the barrel, lengthened breechblock, and improved internal extractor.    Take a stand and drop a herd, or point and shoot from horseback in amongst the thundering.      There is an "1866" over eagle stamping on the breechblock near the pivot.     | |||
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| One of Us |
That's a sizable Bovid Mr. RIP! Did the wall require reinforcement at that location? | |||
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| one of us |
Nah, that is just a little 3-1/2 year-old "eatin' bull." Nothing special, just drill a hole into a stud and screw a lag bolt into it. Let's stick to Express sights: Texas Ranger "La Beef" (Glen Campbell or Matt Damon in True Grit) used his sights expressly to save Rooster Cogburn's bacon( John Wayne or Jeff Bridges). Yep it was a McNelly Sharps carbine, a conversion of the Civil War era percussion to centerfire 50-70. If this sight is made tight by proper spring tension both folded down and standing up, it's cool, out to 800 yards for volley fire with 470-grain .512-cal slugs moving faster than the speed of sound at the muzzle, maybe even 1250 fps!      T (STAR) S: TEXAS  You know those old paper-cartridge breech loading Sharps were ".54 caliber" but actually shot .55-caliber Minnie ball: The first .550 Magnum Everything old is new again. I think I gotta get a ladder sight on the Forty-Nine-Naught-Ten. Maybe a patch box on the buttstock too. Maybe skip the saddle ring on the left side? | |||
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| One of Us |
WWI Imperial troops toting M95 carbines with 2600M ladders. Seen here tossing "pyrotechnic" devices at Bolsheviks or Frogs.  22 on this ladder is 2200 Schritt or 1760 Meters ...  | |||
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| one of us |
Potato mashers! That WWI ladder sight is basically the same as the 1859 Sharps Carbine sight, 1866 conversion, just longer reach for a faster bullet. | |||
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| One of Us |
I like that set up! Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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| One of Us |
Open sights are inferior because they block off at least half of the target. That is why the 1903A3 went to peep sight and why they put a peep on the M1. Same reason with British Enfields. "Back in the wars an all," open sights from an airplane perspective would be like having a Heads Up Display that blocked off the lower part of all the information in the HUD and substituted a dark mask half way up the HUD that you could not see through. A normal HUD is very similar to a peep sight. I took my training wheels off very ealy and got rid of my tricycle buckhorns and went to a peep. Barstooler | |||
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| one of us |
Open sights are the only sights that will quickly let you see your target while you place the bead on the game.With scopes and peeps you need to first see through something before you can set the bead or crosshair. | |||
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| One of Us |
Sounds like you've never used peeps ... | |||
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| One of Us |
And dont know how to use a scope SSR | |||
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| one of us |
As a matter of fact I did once use them.It was in africa and it was a CZ lott.It was just for fun target shooting.I once shot at twenty five yds with a Ruger lott and went up against someone half my age who also used a lott but with peeps.I whooped him at 25 yds. | |||
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| one of us |
Truth is I've shot out two heavy barrel 308's shooting targets with a scope. | |||
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| One of Us |
Shootaway, then what I said holds. heavy , high power target scopes are a differnt animal from low power wide FOV hunting/tactical scopes. SSR | |||
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| one of us |
The scope I used is a 2X7 Leo.I now keep it in my shooting box and take it to the range with me every time where I use it as a spotting scope. | |||
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