If a 300 grain 375 bullet works on buff, what's wrong with a 300 grain bullet in 416, at the same velocity?
Same recoil, bigger bullet?
gs

I see no reason for this not to work, although I think a 300 grain from a 375 would penetrate more than a 300 grain from a 416.

I have used 400 grain 416 bullets on buffalo and elephants, and have not noticed any difference they might have made in killing power.

Also, I would not like to use any bullet which is lighter than normal for the caliber - just as I see no reason to use a heavier bullet.

------------------
saeed@ emirates.net.ae

www.accuratereloading.com

Still, downloading it, as I brought up, you
can have both a light recoiling, awesome round for just about anything, and, for elephant, and buffalo, you have the added 400 grain slug for the 416, a huge increase over the 300 grain 375?

What bullets do you use in your 375/404?
And, why did you come up with that wildcat?

Thank you very much for taking the time to discuss this with me.

Since I'm not in any great hurry, I'm researching this to death.

Did you see my post about Paco taking elephant with cast slugs?????;-)

It's great knowing old gun legends, and young gun legends;-)

Thanks again, and happy day after new year.

I'm celebrating tonight, since I didn't get out quick enough last night. I was putting together a computer for a friend of mine.
gs

It is all quite simple.

Firsly if you are for a particular caliber such as 375 H&H or 416 Rigby or whatever then that will be your choice. However your questions don't indicate that to be the case.

So, if you look at the 375s, 416s and say 450 Dakota or 460 Wby, all of them shoot bullets of similar sectional density at similar velocities.

So it now just becomes a recoil and cost issue.

If you can handle the recoil and costs, then you just get a 450 Dakota or 460 Wby.

If you can really shoot with big recoil and handle big costs then get a 500 Jeffrey or 505 Gibbs as those two will also drive bullets of similar sectional density to similar velocities as the others.

Lstly, you could go to a 585 Nyati which will also maintain the velocity and sectional density of the other calibers.

Mike

John Gannaway a pretty well-known rifle master says "The .375 H&H is like a pair of black shoes, everybody should have one."

There isn't anything you can't do with the .375, and I recommend it to most hunters heading for Africa or to Alaska for big bears.

Almost all rifle makers make a .375, all the ammunition makers load ammunition for it, and the bullets available in .375 are just great. I don't know of a single knock on the cartridge that could not be considered quibbling. It has been around for going on 100 years, and some folks hold that against it. It is also known as the caliber that almost all shooters can learn to shoot really well.

I have three .375s: one is my Africa .375 (a BRNO 602 that holds 5 in the magazine), one is my North America .375 (an M89 BGR Kimber that holds 3 in the magazine), and my carbine (a .376 Steyr ProHunter with 20" barrel).

You can't go wrong with one, but I have seen people who could not shoot a .416 well -- let alone a .458.

jim dodd

------------------
"if you are to busy to
hunt, you are too busy."

Penetration?- doesn't matter as they all will handle different weight bullets to get whatever job you want done.

Accuracy? They can all acheive roughly the same level.

How much do you want to spend?
1. average
2. lots
3. price is no object

How badly can you handle being kicked?
1.okay
2.lots
3.My balls are made of tungsten!

Do you want to have a rifle
more powerful than most?

1.Sort of
2.Hell yeah!
3.Hand me the Bazooka!

If you scored 3 I suggest the 375 is the one for you.

4= 416, 404 jeffery 458 win

5-6 458 lott/weatherby/dakota/470 capstick

7-8 475 A&M ,495/500 A-square,510 wells etc.

9 585 plus

Karl.

I would love to be able to buy a Interarms Mark X 375 or 416, for 150 bucks, have tons of bullets to choose from, and be able to reload from light to heavy, never feeling I was under gunned. And, not have to pay an arm and a leg to say, I have an exclusive Ferrari 577, so nah , nah , nah. In other words, Nitro express doubles, and other exotic wildcats are out. I also need to buy a press, and find some place to set it up.

I BELIEVE in the religion of caliber. Pistol wise, I have a Linebaugh Sevile, and if push came to shove might carry a 45 Kimber for self protection. I don't want to have to worry about bullet expansion.
I like pre-expanded bullets, and, I'm willing to put up with the recoil. I used to shoot a 45 Detonics, with 200 grain speer
ashtray hollow points, at about 1200 fps, out of a 3 3/4 inch barrel, with a 25 ounce gun, all day long.

Standard load the Linebaugh is a 325 LBT at between 1300-1525, and, alternated with 260 grain jacketed hollow points, at 1300 fps.
Yes, both guns recoil.
I have a permanent, controlled flinch, with the 45, but the end result is good. However, shooting a 22 sure makes me look bad

Rifle wise, I have benched a 500 grain, 45 caliber sabot, based on a 12 gauge magnum, at up to 1600-1700 fps. NOT a lot of fun, but off hand, not bad.

30-06 benched, with full house loads, fine, and I could shoot an M1A all day, and love it.

OK. That said, I like the 375 because it most closely resembles a big version of the 30-06.

I can load a 220 grain bullet, at 2500-2900,
and zip it out there for long range.

However, I could do the same with the 416.
I've got to price the 416. Don't know where I can find one for 550 around here, like I can a cz 550.

Bullet cost is double for the 416, and the brass is more expensive. However, it would be nice to have a rifle that shoots a bullet at least heavier then my pistol, which will go up to 360 grains, or more, if I want. 405
grain cast bullets have been used in a similar gun.

So, the 375 falls short in that respect.
Not to mention the 416 has a much larger frontal area, and, the extra bullet weight, and velocity, might make for a nice stopping rifle, if the situation occurs.

The 416 is also VERY accurate, according to the people on this forum. Another Plus.
Only really accurate rifles are intresting to me...

So, the question is, is the 416 worth the extra cost?

I figure I can lower that by casting my own 416 bullets, and using Gerards bullets for
anything else, or Barnes.

Gerards bullets, in particular, the HV, look like they turn either a 375, or a 416, into a tack driver, but, they also destroy what they hit. If we wanted dinner, that looks like the ticket.

As for the major difference, a 416 has a reasonable reputation, with solid flatnosed bullets, as a serious stopper on dangerous game. I would like something that, if push came to shove, would have a very good chance of both being a stopper, and an efficent killer. 416's aren't run through, by too many animals.

The 375 doesn't seem to fall into a stopper category, since, even with 300's, lion, and buffalo and I'm sure elephant, have run though it. Still, on any other animals, bears included, a 375 is usually more then adequate.

The next choice, the 458, just isn't that great for broad range use. Most companies make a big, 500 grain solid, and then a lighter, 350 grain solid. For some reason, the velocity on these don't seem to be all that high, perhaps due to short rifle length, and the accuracy doesn't seem to be that great, either.

I could be wrong on this, however.
the other question is, could I handle the 458's recoil? Don't know.

Recoil, in my experience, is something you get used to. It's like boxing. The more punches you take, the better you learn to roll with them, and, learn to hit back more quickly, after the punch.
So, the key for any of these is being able to shoot them a bit, and get used to them.

The other thing that bothers me about the 458 is the magazine capacity. 5 is good, but I think 3 is average for the 458 rifle.

Finally, I don't like magnums. Too much bang, without enough go. That means the weatherby's are out, and anything that operates in the 60k cups range.

I want a rifle that I buy once, and use for the rest of my life, so, I'm not jumping off any bridges right now to grab one. I can be patient, ask a lot of questions, and wait.

Anyway, I don't really need the biggest baddest, gun on the block. If I did, I'd go BMG.

Problem with that is the press. Expensive.

"he uses a Barnes solid.
Downloading a larger caliber with a lightweight bullet is fine for practice, but when hunting it isn't necessarily the best route to follow.
Light for caliber bullets have poor SD and BC, both necessary for long range shooting if you like hitting what you are aiming at. They also tend to come apart rather easily if ranges are close and velocity is high. Another facet of this is will they penetrate in a straight line through the animal? "

John: Lets see.
Gerards HV bullets, in 375, come in240, bc, .460, vel. 2600, and 265 grains,.580 bc, 2500 min vel. In 416, 320,.480 bc, and 2200 fps min..

It seems pretty clear that the HV bullets for the 375 pick up where the 30-06 leaves off, and the 416 is capable of one step above the 375.

With cast, LBT bullets, 375 250 grain FN are avaliable, and in 416 a couple 335 grain, and 375 grain fn bullets. Price seems to go up 30 percent for the 416 bullets.

So where does this leave me? I don't have a clue right now. The 375 looks, as others have mentioned, as the next logical step up from a 30-06. The 416 skips a step...

As for bullets, it looks like the cast bullets, if done right, will be fine for practice, or, for non-dangerous game. One thing I have learned about LBT style flat nosed solids, is, they penetrate, in a straight line, and, if they don't break up, which you can alter determining how they are cast, and using the proper lubes, they are devastating on game, large game.

Ross Seyfried used 345 grain, hard cast bullets, in a lbt style, and the bullets averaged 38 inches of penetration, straight through, in the toughest of all medium, a, charging bachelor, Cape buffalo.
Take about putting your life where your mouth is...

Paco Kelly suggests 2200-2400 is plenty for hard cast lead bullets, at least that's what he used to kill an elephant with, 40 years ago.

As for bullets breaking up, this can be avoided, if cast bullets are done right, and, with Gerards solids, HV's or Barnes x and solids, that is not a concern.

I would feel very comfortable shooting a 330 grain HV out of a 416, and not be concerned about penetration, at all. Same with a Keith style, flat nose, case slug.

So, I guess it may come down to the matter of luck. Chances are I will end up with a 375, since it's more likely I'll find one of those, cheap, then a 416. I have time.

gs

If you can buy a 416 for the same price as a 375, would you buy a 416. We are also assuming that the price meets your requirements.

Mike

How much can you afford to pay for the rifle or alternatively how much are you prepared to pay.

Would the CZ in 416 Rigby be a satisfactory gun for you. If not, what other gun in 416.

Does it matter whether it isa 416 Remington or 416 Rigby.

Lastly, when do you require this rifle by

Mike

I can also restock it, or rebarrel it later.

I'm looking in the 550 and under range. That's the current best find for a 375, new, from CZ, around here.

If someone came up with a cheaper offer, that I couldn't refuse, I'd jump on it.

I would actually like the extra velocity of the rigby, over the remington.

I have not found another rifle, in a 416 rigby, that I would be happy paying the money for.

I just can't see spending that much for a basic bolt action rifle.

I've always found it's best to start with a good action, and work up, rather then buying a 1500 dollar factory 'custom', and then having to rebarrel, and restock.

gs

How much does a CZ cost new in 416 Rigby

Mike

Both are 550. Only other really big bore is a 458, but the guy in the shop is buying that one.

Other gun shop is sort of yuppie antique. They have rifles, but everybody thinks their old WBY is a collectors item, and they want an arm, and a leg. I'm looking for a used big bore, that someone has to sell, or can't shoot, due to recoil.

More important right now, is finding out if the dillion presses will do the calibers I'm looking at, and the cost of the reloading dies.

If they have dies for 375 and not 416, I may go with the 375, due to cheaper brass, more bullets, even if they don't have the weight, and caliber, I want.

Another choice is talking to another guy I know, that does police stuff. See if he can find one.

Just got a couple 454 factory ammo cartridges from him.

Good way to blow up my 45 colt linebaugh.

gs

gs

Why don't you just buy the 375.

What is the most could lose.

Since cost appears to be the major issue, you would need to be able to buy a 416 at a lower price than a 375 to offset the additional cost of cases and bullets and dies.

Mike

[This message has been edited by Mike375 (edited 01-03-2002).]

By the time I can afford a safari, I will be able to afford a 416, or larger.

I'm waiting right now for Kalifornia to tell me I'm not a terrorist, and that it's ok for me to purchase a handgun.

After that project is done, I'll be looking at a press.

One thing I learned a long time ago. Want to get good? Shoot.

Light, heavy caliber handguns require a lot of practice.

However, Kimber makes great guns, with great specs, cheap.

So, the press has to work for both rifle and pistol, which I know it does, but, 375 and 416 might be different from 06. email is in to dillon on the heavy calibers...

gs

What will you do if this Dillion press does not work wihh 375 H&H

Mike

I remember my old 550 worked fine with 06, hope that's the case with the newer models.

gs

Are still there or are you out buying that 375.

Mike

Plan on trying to get 1150 with either a 180, 200, or 230 grain hollow point, in 45 acp. Then, we have to apply for a CCW.

That's going to be interesting...

This is the first project, and it came in from Kimber the second. Ready the 13th.

gs

gs

I'd also like to know why loading 375H&H with a single stage press sucks, and how is it that you shoot a 45 more accurately than a 22?

As to getting 1150fps muzzle velocity with a 230grain bullet from a three inch barrel, to call it an "interesting project" is an understatement.

Regards,

Otto P.

quote:

---

Originally posted by OttoDude:
Socrates,

I'd also like to know why loading 375H&H with a single stage press sucks, and how is it that you shoot a 45 more accurately than a 22?

As to getting 1150fps muzzle velocity with a 230grain bullet from a three inch barrel, to call it an "interesting project" is an understatement.

Regards,

Otto P.

---

Socrates,

I ditto Otto's comments on the hyperactive .45ACP load. Per the Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading, 5th edition, utilizing a Colt Gov't Model, 5" bbl, (standard, full-sized 1911), the red-line maximum is 1050 fps using a 185 gr jacketed bullet, 1000 fps using a 200 gr jacketed or swaged lead bullet, and 900 fps using a 230 gr jacketed bullet. The standard 230 gr FMJ "Hardball" load is only 830 fps. Pressures to attain 1150 fps (or 1200 fps as stated in an earlier post) in a 3" barrel .45ACP would wreck a 1911-style pistol (I don't care who it's made by!)& probably the shooter. I have 2 1911s, one Colt & one Kimber, and I wouldn't dare shoot either of them with the loads you are suggesting.

Furthermore, if you are going to carry concealed, as indicated, and heaven forbid have to use the pistol in self-defense 1) Reliability factor: factory loads, particularly hardball, feed reliably & 2) A prosecutor (and jury) will eat you alive in court for using handloads.

As far as single-stage presses go, I load all of my ammo on a single-stage press. Rounds per hour don't come close to matching quality per round. It often takes me a couple of evenings to load 100 rounds due to tumbling, proper and extensive case prep, properly sizing each case, weighing each charge, properly seating and crimping bullets, checking OAL, etc.

Best of luck.

------------------
BH1

"Did you use excessive force?---I HIT IT WITH EVERYTHING I HAD!

I would guess we load an awful lot more ammo for larger bore rifles than probably all members on this forum combined.

We use a single stage press, and we love it.

We do have 4 Dillon machines for pistols, and I would never dream of loading my African hunging ammo on any of these. I will stick to a single stage any day.

------------------
saeed@ emirates.net.ae

www.accuratereloading.com

Furthermore, if you are going to carry concealed, as indicated, and heaven forbid have to use the pistol in self-defense 1) Reliability factor: factory loads, particularly hardball, feed reliably & 2) A prosecutor (and jury) will eat you alive in court for using handloads.

As far as single-stage presses go, I load all of my ammo on a single-stage press. Rounds per hour don't come close to matching quality per round. It often takes me a couple of evenings to load 100 rounds due to tumbling, proper and extensive case prep, properly sizing each case, weighing each charge, properly seating and crimping bullets, checking OAL, etc.

Best of luck.
"

First part. The old detonics 'magnum' was nothing more the a strong stainless steel gun, with a 200 grain speer hollowpoint, and a fairly hefty pressure spike. The 45 ACP casings could easily handle 40K cups, vs. the 20k cups for a standard load 45.

The problem is, with a short barrel, the powder has to burn quickly, and you get spiky pressure, which is very destructive.

The secret to the detonics was a tight chamber, that didn't allow the 45 casing to expand much.

I hope, and everyone has said this about kimbers, that the specs are tight, and, since the gun is stainless, it should be very strong.

However, I can't find any springs the equal of the recoil springs in a Detonics.

So, I'm only upping the recoil spring package to 21 pounds, from 18 pounds, so, it's pretty much impossible to really hit the ballistic figures I would like.
Someone wrote a very nice article a while back on turning a Kimber into a plus P by increasing the spring pressure to 28 pounds, and the trigger spring as well, for the grand cost of 13 dollars.

I will say the 200 grain hollowpoint was a favorite of many police departments, not shooting through much, and when it did, fully expanding, leaving a very large exit wound.

I'll go with either a 160,180,or 200 grain hollow point, and work loads up that cycle the action properly, and are very reliable.

I put thousands of rounds through that little detonics, and while it kicked a bit,
it was very accurate, and held up very well.

Hmmm. I'm not much worried about using handloads in the gun, and, after working/interning for a while for a DA's office, I must say you have come up with a unique consideration that I have NEVER heard used in a court room. Crucified for using handloads? Most DA's, and police could careless, and know little more about such issues.
They are usually much more concerned with if your life was threatened, and, if it was a justifiable shoot.

However, in your states, perhaps this happens.

As for hand loading rifle cartridges, I maybe stuck with a single stage press.

I am not at all in love with the long process of trimming, sizing, etc. one step at a time.

I much perfer one handle pull, one loaded round.

gs

I've used reloads in my HK Mark 23, 185gr XTP@1370-1400fps using StarLine .45 Super brass, VV N350 powder.

Triton-Ammo used to make .45 Super ammo, but quit because a dis-agreement over "royalty fees". Before they stopped, they made some FMJ .45 Super ammo for the US Navy SEAls and their Mk23 Mod 0's.

[This message has been edited by Cardinal (edited 01-04-2002).]

You may be an a-hole (v. Matchking thread et al), but I wish you no harm. That conversion with just a heavy Wolff spring that you read about was with entirely different brass. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. Furthermore, I believe that it was not with a standard 1911 barrel, but rather a "ramped" barrel, meaning full cartridge case support, although I may remember incorrectly on that.

Saeed, who has a LOT of experience, is hinting to you that a single-stage press is appropriate for DGR cartridges, maybe for most rifle cartridges. The reason for this is that the process of producing safe high-pressure cartridges that you can rely on involves a lot of steps and inspection between steps.

There was a post a while back about reading the (expletive deleted) manual or not reloading. Your comments on expected velocity from .45ACP make it quite clear that that thread applied to you.

If you really think you should be reloading, and I question whether you should be using ANY progressive loader just yet, you would do well to read Art Alphin's A-Square manual (available from Sinclair) on rifle cartridges, EVEN IF YOU NEVER LOAD RIFLE CARTRIDGES. I believe that the Nosler manual is a good one for pistol or rifle, although others may recommend others for pistol cartridges. If you value your eyes, hands and other body parts, I would recommend you not exceed ANY component manufacturer's recommendations.

[This message has been edited by Recono (edited 01-04-2002).]

Please, compared to the other people posting in that thread I rate AAA Angel.

the issues you brought up, to my recollection, are correct. I believe the spring rate was 28 lbs, and the barrel perhaps had better support then normal.

I'm going to check up on that, calling Kimber Monday.

I got Saeed's hint.
By the way, I averaged about 6 hours a week, shooting pistols for 4 years. At the time,
I had to have my own press, and I loaded all my own ammunition. I do read manuals, and my recollection of past events, that long ago, are shady.

Seems to me we managed to load 223 and 30-06 on the dillion, becuase my friend had a class 3, and full auto eats a bit of ammo, as did the 45 machine guns.

That said, most of my shooting was done with a 45 Detonics, since it was my carry weapon.

Practice, practice, and more practice.

I am well aware of the inspection required, and, it's a pain in the ass reloading match grade ammunition, in 308, which I did at the time for my friends M1A's.
Still, the end result was very accurate, and therefore, enjoyable.

Thanks for the suggestion of a refresher course on reloading. I will follow that advice, when I have a place to setup a press.

Don't right now, but I hope to have in the future.

I took your comments to heart about the ammo, and decided the best course of action is to see what a few reloaders, and new loaders have to say about ammunition.

I am also intrested in your comments about the DA using reloading as some sort of indication of whatever.

If you have case names, where people have been held accountable for defense shooting, because they used handloads as the basis for the prosecution, I would like to have them.
Or for that matter, ANY case in which a district attorney used the use of handloaded ammunition against the person.
Never heard of it happening, but, I could be wrong.

Love you too;-)

gs

It's his "personal injury lawyer" you need to fear if he doesn't die like a good little bad guy.

You could be slapped with a multi-million dollar lawsuit stating that your load caused more "pain and suffering" than any factory load could have and that it was unjustified. Of course they may not win, but have you priced a good lawyer these days? Simply defending yourself could put you in the poorhouse.

Thinking about what you said, and I guess through default I ended up either knowing a lot of people, or asking them a lot of questions.

I worked for an Ex-green beret for a long time, 10 years, and during that time I really was into shooting, since it was sort of our family sport.

I ran into a guy that blew things up for a living at Lockheed, and knew more about guns, explosives, and how to take pictures of them with the worlds fastest camera, then
most. We used to shoot together, and he was ex-military.
Ever had a set of time lapse photos of armor piercing 20 mm going through armor plate? That was my boy;-)
One of the guys I work for part time, is the head of the local police department range, gun information, etc. He's also an attorney, and I server papers and do research work for he and his partner.

Might see if I can use his garage for a press.

I've got reams of paper to John Linebaugh, when he lived in Cody, and called him a bunch of times concerning a certain Seville, and he said just call up Ross Seyfried, and ask him about shooting a cape buffalo with my gun.

Stuff like that.

Another forum has Paco Kelly, John Taffin, Tim Sundles from Buffalo Bore, another guy from corbon, the father of a lot of this stuff, Lee Jurras, and Spike the forum moderator.

All are nice, and willing to answer most stupid questions a green horn like me asks;-)

I don't usually bring that stuff up, and, living here, I don't have much range time, due to some other things I'm working on.

I don't really want to put much else into posts, and there is more, but it probably shouldn't be posted in a public forum, and I was more than reluctant to even bring this stuff up.

Darryl:
"Miss Cass" was probably a typo, since I have no recollection of the mens rhea at the time of the post. It was late, and I was running off to bed, I think.
Same right now.

On the other hand, after hearing about your gun, it should be about right. It must take a boat to float that damn 60 pound gun of yours.

You know, Miss Cass, Miss Budweiser, etc.
Superfast, giant hydroplane, race boats???

I kind of like it. What you have built is about as extreme as those racing boats.

I guess I'll just name your rifle "Miss Cass".:-)

PDog Shooter:
When in Rome, do as the romans' do.
When in Saeed's forum, do as Saeed does.

While I may not be as funny as Saeed, he sure as hell has me in stitches all the time.

"Ranging shot on a Cape buffalo"

ROFL

Thing is, I don't think Saeed you miss, ever.
You certainly seem to get all your shots in the 25-50 yard range, enough so the buffalo can run off, without having Saeed for a final meal.

Pdog:
As for not agreeing with me, how could you?
This entire thread is nothing but a joke. I'm just having fun with it, and making fun of a bunch of guys that are way to serious about their damn guns, and what, and how they kill with them.

I remember being drummed to death when I suggested using a BMG for shooting DG.
Here we have a guy with "Miss Cass" a rifle that weighs more then my car.

Now if I can't use a 50 on dangerous game, why aren't more of the members here screaming bloody murder about this guys 416 on steroids?????
Oh, they are, and that's why.

And, I'm more then happy to make fun of "Miss Cass" because, yes, I DID shoot a squirrel with a 105mm cannon, and, it was a hell of a lot of fun.

However, I think the real trump card would be that South African 20mm rifle offered.

I posted a link to it, when talking about poachers. Now THERE is a REAL gun.

None of this Sierra bullet shit.
REAL HE rounds. Not good for tissue damage, a bit excessive, but perfect for poachers. One shot kills.

I gather PDS, that you work for the enforcement arm of the law.

Since I hope to continue from my internship into the DA's office, I will say that I have a lot of respect for most DA's.

Very few bad ones, and that's a very good thing, since nothing is worse then a glory hound DA, and, we have had cases in front of one.

That said, DA's hold themselves to a higher standard, since they have the entire weight of the state behind them, and most handle this power with a great hand, and very few abuse it.

While I understand the tendency to be paranoid about DA's going after gun owners, and, while I also understand a bit of caution might be wise, I just haven't ever
heard of a case where the DA used such evidence.

Did I mention the guy I work for has testified in court for 25 years as a policeman, and nether has he?

He's also never had a warrant refused by any judge.

I have similar ties to SFDA, and, I interned in the Martinez court, family law services also, and talked to many of the judges, and never heard of such stuff.

I understand that being paranoid is fine, when people are out to get you, but, in this case, living in Kalifornia, and never having heard of such a thing, I just don't see it.

I did mention that working as a ref, my boss is another local police chief????

The only time I could possibly see the DA using handloads as an indication of mens rhea, would be either a professional killer, loading his bullets as HE, or armor piercing, or the Palladin case, showing that the contract killer followed the directions
precisely, from one end to the other.

The only possible reason I could see for this would be to prove first degree murder, and the premeditation element.

The shooter could easily end all discussion by just unloading the entire clip into the
victim/assailant.

Gee your honor, I flipped out, and just kept pulling the trigger, until the gun was empty.
Something like that, and no more evidence of hand loads.

I've often wondered, and kidded, some of my friends about that situation.

Gee Mr. Seyfried, you shot the attacker burglar 6 times in the head, at a range of 4 feet, with 345 grain slugs, at 1550.
Oh, you panicked, and don't remember recocking and firing your SAA pistol?

Mr. Seyfried, is it true that you crawled on your hands and knees in Africa, through 6 inch thorns, to shoot a cape buffalo 5 times, having him die at your feet? Yes?
And this attacker, he scared you more then the Buffalo? ROFL

You have to admit, that would be a very funny line of questioning...

Or how about this one:

Mr. Seyfried, you have been the world combat pistol champion a number of years? Is that correct?
So could you please explain the 5 tap firing pattern you used on the robber?
Your first shot was in the groin? I see, you missed? Your next 3 shots, in his stomach? Again, your aim was off?

The fourth shot, that appears to have occurred an hour later, to the heart, was the
robber still alive?
And I see, you were scared to death of him, and the 5th shot, the one at point blank range, this was because you were unsure if the person was armed, or, likely to get up and attack you? An insurance round???
;-)

Better yet:

PDog:

Sir, could you please explain why at a range of 1000 yards, the victim posed an immediate,
present, danger to you, justifying the brain shot that splattered his skull all over the wall??

gs

gs

All I can say is:
perfect post, and I agree with everything.

I looked at a weibe 375 for 2500 bucks today, and it was sweet.

Probably go with a CZ 550, when I get paid.

While no Saeed, the humor is not lost on me.

He kills everything with a 375, and has others shoot the trex 577.:-)

I discussed this with my favorite swat/bomb guy, and he uses the 30-06 for everything.
Course, he's mainly shooting bad guys.

gs

I have used 400 grain 416 bullets on buffalo and elephants, and have not noticed any difference they might have made in killing power.

Also, I would not like to use any bullet which is lighter than normal for the caliber - just as I see no reason to use a heavier bullet.

[quote/]

Saeed:
I think 220 grain 375 slugs might be very useful.
I can't see using 300 grain Barnes X on targets all the time. Still, it's not a bad idea.

Anyway, thank you. Your post, and your ability have made it pretty clear which gun I should buy.

Not to mention the factory ammo is 1/2 the price of 416 Rigby here.

gs

So, are you buying that CZ 375 in the next day or so. Great news.

By the way, what did Saeed say to make you make the decision for the 375.

I ask that because it could be helpful to others.

Mike