Hi, I'm having my CZ 550 getting Ed Plummer's No. 1 CZ Upgrade done. I have a chance to get it converted to 500 Jeffery. I had been thinking 470 Capstick until now. I am concerned about feeding and the cost of brass compared to the 470 Capstick. Any 500 Jeffery owners out there with advice?

Thanks,

Chuck

Chuck:

I have a CZ .500 Jeffery. I had them put a brown laminate stock on it for strength, and bed and slick up the action. It has a mercury recoil reducer and two cross bolts. When I first got it the chamber was a little rough and I had to send it back for them to polish it out a bit. I shoot 535 grain Woodleigh RN SN and solids with it and I have had no problems whatsoever with feeding or extraction. It works and shoots great. Brass is indeed expensive and so are bullets but this is the price you pay for this stuff. I originally got 40 rounds of Horneber brass from Huntingtons and then later 100 rounds of Jamison brass. I am not at all sure if Jamison is still making .500 Jeffery brass. The brass lasts a long time. I am still shooting my first 20 rounds and I'll bet it has been loaded about 3 or 4 times and it still looks pristine. I think the .500 Jeffery is a fantastic big bore cartridge.

Dave

500 jeffe... about 6 bucks a case
470 capstick, using hornady basic brass, buck and a half

3 bucks for headstampped

oh yeah, 500 AR .. buckfifty for brass...
470 AR, 60 cents

I may not have mentioned that the 470 and 500 ar are the CHEAPEST .475 and .510 to feed
jeffe

Chuck,

if you are not going to take the rifle to Africa, I second what Jeffe says.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Thanks all, my CZ started out as a 375 H&H so I'm sure there's more work to be done on it besides rebarreling. It's at Ed Plummers at AHR right now so it's a good time to convert it. Mine has been glass bedded with 2 crossbolts, and has a mercury recoil reducer. I figured to go with a heavier contour 24" barrel and another reducer to get it to 12 lbs. I think the 470 Capstick will have less issues with feeding, less recoil and cheaper brass but it's not a big 50.. Decisions decisions.

Chuck

500AR or 500A2 ... cheap brass and easy to get feeding.

500Jeffery ... too many variables and expenses all the way from brass to dies to feeding modifications. Whilst a 500Jeffery has definately got "major snob appeal" and is a "traditionalists choice" ... if you can get the same ballistics from a cheaper case ... nett effect on game is exactly the same isn't it?
Cheers...
Con

I do plan to take the rifle to Africa. But it will be a few years, so it's going to be one hell of a deer, elk and black bear rifle before then! I started out with a 375 H&H, a little concerned about the recoil of a big bore until I shot it. I can definitely deal with twice the recoil of the 375 so I'd like to go to 470 or .510.

Regards,
Chuck

I'm in the process of converting my RSM in 375 H&H to 500 Jeffery. If you look carefully you can find some deals. I went the 500 Jeffery route due to the coolness and resale in case I decide to sell it.

Brad

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
500 jeffe... about 6 bucks a case
470 capstick, using hornady basic brass, buck and a half

3 bucks for headstampped

oh yeah, 500 AR .. buckfifty for brass...
470 AR, 60 cents

I may not have mentioned that the 470 and 500 ar are the CHEAPEST .475 and .510 to feed
jeffe

Jeff:

I think you are wrong about the cost of .500 Jeffery brass. Graf and Sons has Jamison brass. If you buy 200 rounds, it is only about $2.29 a case and two hundred rounds would be a lifetime supply. I recall Horneber brass being more expensive but no where near six bucks a case.

Dave

Dave,
yes and no ..
the last time gras had jamison brass it was that cheap, but it is out of stock
http://www.grafs.com/metallic/907

we are going to see double, at least, of those rates in the future.. 2.50 a piece is what we are used to paying for rigby/big webby cases

But only midway has is on hand and in stock, and jamison hasn't run any 500 jeffe in awhile, and it could be awhile.

Remember, i did the group buy for deiter's brass a couple years ago, and it was about 2.50 per piece, in like 2003.

truset me, I checked my facts before posting.. and unfortunatly, the only brass on the street is bertramhttp://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseProducts.aspx?t=82579&pageNum=0&tabId=1&categoryId=9100&categoryString=9315***652***670***9013***

Huntingtons doesn't have any in stock, nor does custom brass and bullets, at this moment

the enxt time jamison brass comes out, I AM GUESSING we are looking at 4 to 5 bucks, as that's the market rate
jeffe

Jeff:

Yea, but the same upward pressure on the price of Jeffery brass will be exerted on other calibers too. Right now, you can't find any .505 Gibbs brass either and I bet the next time it comes out it will be more expensive as well. However, for most of us, 100 or perhaps 200 rounds of brass is a lifetime supply.

If you want to be practical, the two best big bores are without a doubt the .458 Lott and the .500 A-Square. Lott brass is readily available at rock bottom prices. With the .500 A-Square, you can get 20 rounds of properly head stamped brass from A-Square for your trip to Africa and buy a hundred rounds of Norma .460 Weatherby brass and just neck it up to shoot at the range.

Dave

What do you guys think about the 470 Capstick as opposed to the 500 Jeffery? It would require minimal changes to my 375 H&H, would hit a lot harder than the 375, cases are reasonable and it should present no feeding problems. For some reason, I have no interest in a 458 Lott. I believe a 500 Jeffery would have higher resale value, has the Africa feel, and having a "big 50" does have it's appeal though


Regards,
Chuck

Chuck,
The capstick is way sexy in a CZ.. and you can have the barrel rebored, keeping the sights and stock, for your 375, for about the same price as a new barrel WITHOUT the intregal parts

Dave
Agreed, more or less..
but you can buy rum brass, today, by the bucket, for 77¢ (wow, that has nearly doubled in 3 years), and rigby, from hornady for $1.50.

the 458 lott is just about the most practical factory big bore there is, without a doubt. However, if CZ stopped making them, the 458 AR would give the same power for 1/2 the cost of the "next" 458 lott, the ruger RSM.

But, back to my point, on a .475 or .510 throwing case... the AR rounds
1: work in a standard LENGTH action
2: use cheap brass
3: perform at least as well as the HH based coutnerparts (the cases are a statistically significant 4% larger than the 416 rem, 458 lott, and 470 capstick)
4: in the case of the 500, are larger than the 495 A2, and STILL fit in a standard length action.

However, so does a 500 jeffe, so that's kind of moot for the 500ar... So, run that out to 100 cases ...
For a 500 Jeffe, you are looking at $650+$150 just for 100 pieces of brass and a set of ch4d dies, not to mention barrels and stuff

100 pieces of rigby from hornady casts $150 if you bought 5 boxes, rather than 100 pieces. Dies are $100, (they use the same shell holder, btw),

That's $500 bucks cheaper to go with the AR vs 500 jeff .. If yo go with a 500 A2 or 495, and don't buy headstampped brass, it's $285 for 100 pieces, and 150 for dies from ch4d...

and, if you go with a 470 ar, 100 pieces cost you 77 bucks, and 150 for dies... and it fits in a standard action... like a regualr ruger mk77, which can have a tang safety, if you like the early ones.

I wouldn't' buy a2 brass on a bet, its got its own series of problems.

If you REALLY have to have headstamped brass, qual cart, or www.custombrassandbullets, can make nearly anything you want.
jeffe

Jeff:

Is the .500AR simply a .375 Remington Utra mag. necked up to .510? If so, how do you get properly headstamped brass and what does it cost. What is the case capcity and how are the pressures as compared to say the Gibbs or the Jeffery? I would assume for example that at similar velocity a case like the .450 Dakota or .450 Rigby would be operating at less pressure than the .458AR because of the larger case capcity or the Dakota and Rigby rounds, right?

Dave

Dave,
The 416, 458, and 470 AR are on the rum case, the 500 AR is on the rigby case.

The 40's are 2.55" case, with a 3.35OAL, the 50 is a 2.65case, 3.4 oal.

We are waiting on jamison (which is why I am so darn involved in knowing that there's not any 500 jeffe running around, i have one of those, too) to run more unheadstammped Rigby, and to make unheadstamped RUM ... Now, since the RUM and 404 are so close, well, there's some wiggle room, just all I am saying on that.

a bunters costs ME a couple hundred bucks to have to headstamp the brass, and there's enough guys on the 458 and 416 to probably justify one, rather than having them engraved.

we are waiting for jamison to be able to run commerical stuff again!!
jeffe

Jeff:

I just got off the phone with "Ward" at Dakota Rifles. I wanted to get load data and talk to him about a .450 Dakota project. He said that in the future, Hornaday will be making all the Dakota brass. What's up with Jamison? Are they going to be making .505 and .500 Jeffery brass again?

Dave

war materials... hard to run 50,000 "odd.ball" when the army is ordering, well, ALL you can run

Good arguements have been made for going other ways to get a big bore. Good arguements have been made against the Jeffrey.

I think a lot depends on why you want it and what for as to useage.

However, as for me I say damn the nay sayers and full steam a head on the 500 J. I sold my .500 J a couple of years ago, but not for any of the listed reasons and would like to have one back. Just haven't got around to having someone start one for me.

Thanks Jeff and everyone else, I'm definitely leaning towards the 470 Capstick, bolt doesn't need to be machined, magazine stays almost the same, plenty of power, less recoil. Do I need another recoil lug added if I rebore my barrel? My rifle is already glass bedded and has dual crossbolts installed?

Chuck

I went through this same arguement about 2 years ago with my 375 RSM. I was originally going towards a 505 Gibbs however, my smith told me the extractor was going to be way too thin when he cut it back. Here was my thinking there are plenty of ways to throw a 470 or 510 projectile down range. They make a loud boom and kick you in the shoulder. When all is said and done what is going to give your the satisfaction??? I feel that the 500 Jeffery just seems like a noble cartridge fitting for a big ruger mauser action. I am not going to shoot 50 rounds a day with it so it was most important to get something fun. I AGREE with the arguements for the 470AR, 500AR, and 510 express (cheaper, easier, and less headache) or the 470 MoBogo another good choice. I have a great rem 700 416rem mag in a synthetic 7.5lb rifle shots great but not the same appeal of a fine blued african rifle with express sites.

My 2 Cents

Brad

Thanks Brad, I think a 470 will scratch my itch. The 458 Lott, AHRs, ARs don't for some reason. The 375's recoil was so mild I decided a 470 shouldn't be a problem. A 500 Jeffery is a wonderful caliber but another big step up from the 470 Capstick in recoil and expense and I tend to shoot my rifles quite a bit.

Thanks again,
Chuck

Chuck:

Sounds good. I too was almost there myself. The only issue I found was 470 bullets where just too darn hard to find cheap and in bulk. I toyed with the 450 rigby idea (416brass + 458 bullets). I can't fault you for the Capstick.

Hi Brad, Hornady makes their XTP pistol bullets in .475 cal. 400 and 325 grain weights, not cheap but not bad either, 80 cents apiece. They would make a nice reduced load bullet for varmints ...

Chuck

I shoot the speer gold dot 400gr in my 470AR as the standard pig hunting load... for the price, a great bullet

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
What do you guys think about the 470 Capstick as opposed to the 500 Jeffery? It would require minimal changes to my 375 H&H, would hit a lot harder than the 375, cases are reasonable and it should present no feeding problems. For some reason, I have no interest in a 458 Lott. I believe a 500 Jeffery would have higher resale value, has the Africa feel, and having a "big 50" does have it's appeal though


Regards,
Chuck

Chuck, you have to buy what YOU want but in my mind there is no contest. When I bought my CZ I had a choice between the Gibbs and the Jeffery. I think that in the CZ the Jeffery is the better choice because of the .70 diameter bolt. Trust me, the Jeffery rocks!

Dave

The 500 Jefferys is a great round, lots of nostalgia, and a record of proven killing power going back many moons...Whats not to like about it other than someone else likes something else better, and thats not much of an arguement...