quote:

Originally posted by fordnutter:
Are there better ways for benching one of these rifles without the recoil problems for sighting in??

There is the lead sled type cradle, which may help to crack your stock. Some build a standing height bench rest, I guess one could be done on a tripod. Any bipod or tripod at full standing height with added elbow rest of some sort.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
I, on the other hand, start getting a headache between 5 to 10 rounds, even standing. The Lott (~5800 ft-lb) just reduces that range!

Exactly the reason I sold my Lott. If you are leaving the line w/ a headache or dizzyness, it's time to move down in caliber or go to a muzzle break. I've fired 30rds from the 404j at the bench in one sitting & everything is fine. After 6rds from the Lott I was ready for an Aspirin.

I have a couple of .404's. I load them to about 2280 f.p.s. and with both of them weighing less than 9.5 lbs (scope included), the recoil is quite tolerable. I just looked at a video in which I shoot the Model 70 Winchester .404 that I have and there is very little muzzle rise or visible "whack" of the shoulder.

For PG this spring I used a .404 with 400 grain Swift A-frames and found no problem killing game out to 230 yards or so, still holding just at the animals spine and dropping bullets into the lungs. The gun was 2" high at 100 yards. I killed five animals that way and not one ran an inch. I can't shoot any further, anyway, off of sticks... so the flatter trajectory of a .375 H&H is moot for me.

Use some 350 gr. BarnesX if you can find them or get some light GS Customs or Northfork bullets for the .404, it will shoot shoot as flat as you can hold it on a target at long distance. Sometimes I think I flinch on and kill game at long range!! I call that a good controled flinch.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I'm thinking I will just grab the CZ 416 Rigby with Wisner extended floor plate and shove five of them big-assed mommas down the box...call me happy!!

Rich
DRSS

What is the Wisner extended floorplate? A drop floorplate like those on the original Schuler 500 Jefferys or Westley Richards .425 Express, or a whole new bottom metal that needs a new stock?

Todd

It is just a replacement floorplate for the CZ 550 mag action that allows one more down (4 instead of 3) for the Rigby.

Judge, I'm with you. I'm working up some 400 gr Swift loads in my 404 for my trip next year to Zambia. Your speed is vitually identical to what I'm getting. Recoil is noticable, but very tolerable from the bench. It doesn't get my attention nearly as much as my 470 and 450 NE do.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI

I've got a .375 H&H, a 404 Jeffery and a 416 Rigby and I find myself enjoying the 404J at the range more than either of the other two. With the French Vectan Tubal 5000 powder I can get 2,350 fps no problem with the NorthFork 380 grain cup point solid, or download it for comfort. So, it's either as comfortable as a 375 or just as deadly as a 416 Rigby, at least for my purposes.

This is a blast from the past and one of the best running discussions on the 404 vs 375HH.

Does anyone out there have any other opinions on this discussion?

I have a dusty Model 70 in .300 RUM that I will either sell on convert to 404 Jeff. I also am eyeing a 416 Rigby by HS Precision. I have no DG plans today, but like to be prepared!

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Some of it is attitude, some of it is practice and some of it is just plain tolerance to punishment.

More power to the guys that can go out and shoot 6 boxes of Lott cartridges at a sitting.
I think most see their limit in the 5000 ft-lb range. These are the 416's, the 470, the 458 WM, etc. which is in part why they are so popular. One can build up somewhat of a tolerance to the abuse, but abuse is abuse.

I, on the other hand, start getting a headache between 5 to 10 rounds, even standing. The Lott (~5800 ft-lb) just reduces that range!

I used to box (Golden Gloves) in my teens, so I don't get headaches with my 500 Jeffery or maybe I just don't know lol

I suspect factory loadings for the 404 are at a much lower pressure than the 375 H&H because there are so many old guns out there. How can you compare them if one is fighting with one arm tied behind its back. If I'm following a wounded buffalo, I'll prefer my 404 with modern loads everytime.

My .404 Jeffrey kicks as bad as my .458 Winchester mag.
I get hammered by both, but my.375 *H&H With a break which is loud as hell is a different beast. I like the.404.
Cal30

I think a lot of it comes down to proper fit. I have had the snot kicked out of me by heavy, ill-fitting 375's and a 450/400 3" Ruger No.1 with the silly high rings they come with meaning my face is almost off the stock (fixed now!).

On the other hand, a nice fitting double 450 or 500 is no problem at all.

The 404J is a lovely round, I had a little takedown Bland many years ago with the hotter RWS ammo (all that was available 30yrs ago until I handloaded it). Not sure why I don't have one now, but I do have an action and barrel ready!

Good hunting,

Chris

we have two schools of thought on the 404 and 450-400 in this comparison. The old school that loads the two 40s at 1920 velocity even with modern powders and the more modern school of thought that loads their good guns with 400 gr. bullets at 2150 in the 450-400 and at 2400 to 2600 FPS in the 404 Jefferys, same applies to the mostly underloaded 416 Rigby. Both the Rigby and the 404 have the same powder and water capacity of the 416 Wby, they just don't have the belt.

Compare the 375 only to the 450-400 at 2150 if you must, but the only answer is the 450-400 is best on DG and at closer ranges, and the 375 is more suitable at longer ranges.

Both the .375 and the 40s work on all big game with proper bullets and proper bullet placement, but neither will work without proper bullet construction and with inproper placement and that includes the 577 and 600 N.E., and therein is the beast that is often overlooked.

My 404 is built on a Model 70 action and weighs under 8.5 lbs. I've been using noncon and solid CEBs at about 2400 fps, including for two successful Cape buffalo hunts. Recoil is brisk but easily manageable. At 2150 or so, I think recoil would absolutely be a non issue with any regular person with any reasonable practice.