The 500/416 Fraser is coming along slowly but steadily. I got the first major milestone yesterday; the barreled action made by huntingcat. Stocking is next (Jeffe, this may be your first two-piece!) while I get the dough together for Scrollcutter.


Griffin-Fraser 500/416


[/url][/IMG]

What action is this?

Real interstig starting point.

Harry,
be sure to bring that beast up here on the 4th!!

i like the through bolt and it have a slot for the safety lever... i might just add that to my jana shotgun when it becomes a 550 flanged!!

jeffe

tiggertate,
Excellent!
I have been considering the single best single shot caliber for all applications, and came to the conclusion that the 500/416 NE is THE BEST cartridge for this.

Looks like you have THE BEST action to go along with this.

Thanks for posting.

Schromf, that is a modern adaptation of a Dan'l Fraser made in Houston by an AR poster named huntingcat. All machined and fitted by hand, no castings. He's doing the rib, band and front sight too but that comes later.

Will do, Jeff.

Thanks, RIP but I haven't done much yet myself; we'll see how the next phase goes. If you want one I have the reamer...

Hmmm ...

Tigger,

Is there an old thread on this action or do you have a website?

You can reach huntingcat by PM, just do a search. He is a full time manager at an oil tool company and builds these and 500 Linebaugh Redhawk conversions on his own time. The first 5 sold pretty quick (mine is #2) and he is building another run of 5, two of which are already sold. He collaborates with a couple of other people to build whole rifles too.

I have mentioned the action a couple of times in the past as I waited for mine but a picture works every time! There is also a pretty good article on them in a 2004 issue of Single Shot Journal by the guy who stocks them for huntingcat.

Is this action only suitable for rimmed cartridges or is it like a Ruger No.1 and will work with any round? In which case I would opt for a rimless round such as the 416 Rigby or Wby. and load it down to 2400 FPS...Even the 416 Rem or 404 would suit me fine...Better performance and better brass available, otherwise the 500/416 is a great rimmed cartidge...

Like the original, this action is for rimmed cases. The 500 NE case is close to the largest rim it will accomodate. As far as I know, I am the only person building a big bore. The others are either 30-40 Krag or un-stated. A rimless adaptation was looked at but there was not a way to guarrantee 100% function and huntingcat didn't want to put out something he couldn't back up. But just to make it clear, it is as strong as any action on the market today. Much stronger than a '98 Mauser, not that you need anything more than that.

The 500/416 is set for 45,000 psi and in this action it can be run up to 416 Weatherby pressures. It has almost the same case capacity as the Weatherby round. I have no use for anything over 2400 fps but it would make a great long range elk gun for those who do want the speed.

For reference, here's the real deal:

Fraser

That is going to be a beautiful rifle. There is a true golden age of gunmaking coming alive in the USA.

quote:

Originally posted by mehulkamdar:
That is going to be a beautiful rifle. There is a true golden age of gunmaking coming alive in the USA.

Well said. Ditto.

Having seen this action, I have to agree.. the classics can now be made by a seriously intelligent individual, with cnc/emd/etc.. and deliver amazing pieces of work!!


jeffe

Yes it is a nice looking action from the pictures and that stick of wood ain't shabby at all....It should be beatiful, I would love one in a 450-400 to match my constant cravings for nostalgic rifles and calibers..

Tiggertate,

This is the second time you have tortured me with a post about the Griffith-Fraser. I have long been looking for the right action to make a great single shot custom. The Ruger No. 1 is sloppy action with loose tolerances which I couldn’t justify dumping large $ into for a custom. The Dakota is just kind of blah to me though very well made.


How tight is the breech block in the reciever and how tight are the other tolerances. Thanks for thoughtfully posting great pics. I sure would like to see some more.

Its kind of hard to say because different folks look at different issues. From my point of view, I've never cycled a smoother falling block. It is virtually silent; no rattles and the block locks up bank-vault tight. I can just barely hear a slight point of contact when I engage the safety and nothing when disengaged. Only other soumd is the hammer fall. None of the ratchet noise most falling blocks make and no bottom hole in the action for debris to block. Also easy for bench shooting since nothing projects below the receiver but the Fraser was really designed as a hunting action. It extracts only so there's no "ping" if you need a quiet reload. All the moving parts except the safety are attached to the bottom plate which removes from the barreled action with two pins; the action lever and the little one you see on the bottom left of the action body.

Since the trigger guard is not the action lever, you have a lot of choices how to treat that. Mine is a shotgun style that will sweep down to the grip cap but you can use horn too, if you wanted to go traditional. The top tang can be styled in different ways. We going to reshape mine a litle when huntingcat gets it back from me. Lots of flexibility for someone wanting to make a personal statement.

RIP, How does the 500/416 compare with A-Squares 416 Rimmed, which started out life as the 416 Chapuis? I think this was the first rimmed 416 to be made and was to duplicate the ballistics of the 416 Rigby in a rimmed cartridge at low pressures.

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:
RIP, How does the 500/416 compare with A-Squares 416 Rimmed, which started out life as the 416 Chapuis? I think this was the first rimmed 416 to be made and was to duplicate the ballistics of the 416 Rigby in a rimmed cartridge at low pressures.

Wink,
Agree with your history. My impression is that A-Square developed the .416 Rimmed for Chapuis. It never caught on under those names, either .416 Chapuis or .416 Rimmed, so Krieghoff reinvented/renamed it as the .500/.416 NE.

I guess that they are all the same. I have not seen chamber or cartridge specs other than the drawing in the A-Square manual for the ".416 Rimmed."

.060" rim thickness
.665" rim diameter
.573" head diameter, just ahead of the rim
shoulder starts at 2.735" from base
shoulder ends at 2.862" from the base
shoulder semi-angle is 22 degrees
shoulder diameter 0.549"
neck-1 = 0.446"
neck-2 = 0.445"
neck length = .438"
case length max = 3.300"
Loaded COL = 4.100"

This is good research for my singleshot.

Maybe Tiggertate can straighten us out.
Right now, I think they are all the same cartridge.

If it is available headstamped as .500/.416 NE, that is great. I will pay more attention to this cartridge henceforth.

I'm out all week but I have a cartridge drawing and a chamber drawing at home that I'll scan when I get back. Factory brass is 3.25.

tiggertate,
I thought I had a faint glimmer of 3.25" brass length associated with the .500/.416 NE by Krieghoff.

It will be interesting to see what minor differences there are compared to the A-Square .416 Rimmed. Thanks in advance.

Why can't I have more money..............thats so nice

Hey Rip,

tiggertate, came up to the house a couple of months ago to shoot with the "BAND OF BUBBAS". We had a great time playing around with all of the big bore BRT. tiggertate, brought this action to show off, and rightfully so. Anyway, tigger wound up leaving a video camera and his glasses here at the end of the day. The Fraser action, however did not get left.

Hog Killer

For an airhead I sure got my priorites straight, huh Keith?

Harry,

I'm the dumbest one in this thread.......about the only thing I know of are mausers, CZ's and mdl 70's so fill me in on this thing, I would like to know more about it.

That is really nice, please bring it this weekend, I would really like to see it.

Wink & RIP, I almost forgot to do this. Sorry its late but here you go:[url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=293181&c=500&z=1"] [/url]

tiggertate,
Thanks for that.
Now I am really confused.
It does not match the rim ( .655") nor head (.573") diameters of the .500 NE or .470 NE, but it does match their rim thickness (.040")???

This is not the one that Krieghoff uses? Or is it???

Ya learn sumthin every day around here.

I'll be sticking with a .450 NE 3-1/4" (rim: .624" diameter and .042" thickness, head: .545" diameter, according to A-Square) in a stainless Ruger No.1 until I get these .500/.416's sorted out.

That is supposed to be one and the same. It was sent to me by Dave Kiff with the reamer and Bell brass chambers fine. Here's the C.I.P. data:

[url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=293182&c=500&z=1"] [/url]

Measuring a loaded round of BELL .470 NE (George Hoffman Memorial Loads):

.646" rim diameter
.040" rim thickness
.573" head diameter

It is good that the rim thickness, headspace, is a precise match, but I guess there are some max and min specs that are not specified along the way.

I thank you for showing me the first diagrams I have seen for the .500/.416 NE.

It is obviously not the 3.300" cartridge that Art Alphin developed. The A-Square manual claims a rim thickness of .060" for that one, and it must be a unique A-Square product.

Do you have .500/.416 headstamped brass? Who makes it now that BELL doesn't. Maybe Jamison will be making it eventually.

And what would be the source of dies?

If the dies make the once-fired brass fit the rifle chamber properly, all is well.