I plan to build a 458 Lott, 450 Ackley or 470 Capstick on a Sako Hunter. I don´t plan to take that to africa for hunting, just for fun and hunting Moose and pigs so it´s not important with controlled feeding.

I allready have an 458 WM on a Mauser mod 98 that I can´t live without. If I hadn´t this rifle I would choose to build a 458 Lott anyway, but now it´s more difficult to choose.

Do I get any advantage if I choose 450 Ackley instead of 458 Lott?

It´s more difficult to get bullets for the 470 Capstick, otherwise I think it´s a nice caliber.

Anyone here who like to give me any advice.

Regards
Kalle

inho,
the lott is the best of all mentioned... easy factory brass, tons of bullets, very little work, and the same ballistics as everything you listed

jeffe

I would opt for the 470 Capstick. But then of course I would it's bigger.

Jeffe is right about components but you can size up 375H&H brass to 470 and the number of bullets is on the rise. Plus everyone has a lott. Now the 470 is not common and will blast any old hog and put the hurt on rocks, tree stumps, engine blocks... well you get the idea.
JMHO
John

I was in your same position. I had a .458WM and wanted a larger toy. I went with the Capstick. Brass and bullets are only a bit more difficult to find that in .458. With the advent of the .475 caliber handguns you also have good jacket bullets for downloaded ammo. I generally use Barnes and Woodleigh bullets in mine. I loaded up on Bell cases (500) when I bought the gun in 1999 so I am fixed for a long time. I was also lucky enough to load up on the .475 cal 600 grain Barnes Originals which have been discontinued now. I am very happy with the Capstick. If you read Mr. Shoemakers article in rifle magazine-- you get the idea that there is really nothing much to be gained over a 458WM with the 458 Lott.

Yes, I agree that the 470 Capstick would be more fun than another 458 caliber. Some said that 470 caliber offer more killing power than 458 Lott, but the 475 bullet is not much bigger than a 458 bullet. Do you think there are any difference in killing power?
Where can i find that article? I do not have that magazin.

I get 2180 fp/s out of my 458 WM with factory load from Norma (500 grains bullet). My barrel is 26" long from Lothar Wahlter.

I use data from Accuratepowder when I load. Their maxload with 2460 powder is 74 grains at 2189 fp/s and 44.000 CUP. I use 72 grains of that powder and get 2160 fp/s.

Now I use cylindrical brass that I made from 458 WM brass with a home made tool. After that I necksize them with a necksizing die made for 45-90 WCF (Lyman). This operation gives me a little nice ghost shoulder. I don´t doing this to get more space for powder, but it gives me better accuracy and no need for compression when I use maxloads such as 74 grains of Varget.

What about a 458 Rem Ultra or the 460 Guns and Ammo.

Basically the same except the 460 G&A is a 404 necked up and improved.

The Rem Ultra case has a very small amount of rebating the rim so it is the same diamter ans the 375, 458 etc rim.

But with the amount of slop in most factory rifle bolt counterbores the 460 G&A would probably be OK without boly face modification.

The 460 G&A and the 458 Ultra are about midway between the 458 Lott and 460 Wby. Basically these two 45 calibres are about as powerful as you can go on the Sako, Rem 700, Model 70 etc.

They will be a bit more difficult to get done but once done will give you lots more reloading flexibility than the other calibres.

There are dies and reamers for them.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Kalle:
Yes, I agree that the 470 Capstick would be more fun than another 458 caliber. Some said that 470 caliber offer more killing power than 458 Lott, but the 475 bullet is not much bigger than a 458 bullet. Do you think there are any difference in killing power?

I have .470 capstick and have been quite pleased with both the accuracy and the performance on game. To be honest, I do not know if it has more killing power or not. Just looking at the numbers, there would not seem to be a lot of difference between it and the Lott (although the Capstick has a little extra powder capacity), but there is not a lot of difference in published ballistics between the 458 Win Mag and the 505 Gibbs.

458 Win Mag - 500 grain bullet at 2200 fps
505 Gibbs - 525 grain bullet at 2350 fps

However, in the field there is a huge difference between the two.

I recall that Ray A. posted he though there was a notable difference in killing power between the .458 and .470 cartridges. Perhaps that is why the 470 NE is considered a great stopper, but the .450 NE gets little attention. But I doubt the difference could be scientifically proven.

Shoemakers article is in the July 2005 Issue of Rifle Magazine.
In my experience the Capstick has more of a shock effect than the 458. But again I have a WM and the .475 has better velocity and also better frontal area. I have never shot a lott.

Kalle,
Build a .500 Jeffery!

Husky

I would go for the capstick for interesting and the lott for practical. !!

Since you already have the 458 win mag, I'd lean towards the 470 C for a something different big thumper, and to take advantage of the various pistol bullets for plinking.

I can't see any reason for the 450 Ackley, if the 458 Lott isn't enough, then go for something based on the 404 or better yet 416 Rigby case.

I get the impression that the .470 N.E. kills better than the 458 Lott, but I base that on nothing more than observation...I atribute that to bullet cross section...I am convienced that bullet cross section makes a difference regardless of how little...

I also belive high velocity with monolithic bullets makes a big difference in killing power..I reached this conclusion by the effect Saeeds 375/404 has on Buffalo...

My point being I think either high velocity with proper bullets or more cross section of bullet combined with heavy weight, is what makes a better killer of dangerous game. Pretty simple when you think about it...

I too faced a similar "dilema" when I wanted to re-chamber my 458 Win, should I go with the 450 Ackley or the Lott. Ended up going with the Ackley, it does anything the Lott will do, but if you ever plan to use cast bullets, the proper parallel neck of the Ackley will be far better than the Lott. It holds the projectile firmer and with better alignment than the Lott.
And you don't need to form the "neck" of an Ackley case every time you resize, as you do in forming the "ghost-shoulder" with the Lott.
Cases are no problem, as the Lott case will easily fireform into the Ackley chamber, and then all you need is a 2 die set to reload.
For me and my intended purpose, the 450 Ackley left the Lott for dead.

H&H Mad.