Anyone have one of these little screamers?



Chuck

What is it?

Can you post the ballistics?

Thanks,
Andy

Hi Andy, here's a link (I think these loads are way too hot, I would expect one would start with 460 Weatherby load (beginning). I would expect a little more velocity from the 500g bullets than in the 460 Weatherby.

http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/w475am.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.475_A&M_Magnum

Finally last paragraph in this post ...

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Rec/rec.guns/2006-04/msg00501.html


Chuck

Thanks Chuck, none for me, it's all your's

Around 1960, Fred Barnes built himself a
475 A&M-chambered rifle, based upon a
sporterized Enfield action. ... that rifle weighed
no more than 8 pounds. ... his initial handloading
combined stiff charges of IMR 3031 behind his
600-grain bullets. His friends and a small group of
well-wishers went to an informal shooting range...
Fred sat down... [in a] sitting position. He took dead
aim at a the base of a small juniper tree, which was
tenuously hanging on at the top edge of a roadway
cutbank.

"When Fred pulled the trigger, everyone was watching
for the impact. The shot went low. The tree was summarily
uprooted! ... then as a group, they looked around to find
what Barn's reaction might be. There he was, located
several feet behind his original position lying on his back,
arms out stretched, holding his rifle above his head. Dust
from the muzzle blast and his ignoble recoil-induced slide
(he had absorbed well over 110 foot-pounds of energy) was
still stirring when Fred asked, matter-of-factly, "Anybody
want to buy a rifle?" He found no takers."

F Barnes.
Cartridges of the World
10th Edition

Similar to the .470 Mbogo.

George

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
Similar to the .470 Mbogo.

George

Ahh!

That makes sense. Thanks. I'll stick with my .450 Dakota.

and, of course, the story is exactly that, a story ... its not possible for a full grown man to be SLID across the ground be a mere 110FT/LB of recoil.

I've seen Rob take nearly 150 and just rock with it and grin.

"how the hell do you know, jeffe"
I have built a 9# 470 mbogo, and while it kickes, it is NO MORE RECOIL than a 460 weatherby with factory loading.

This story is akin to those saying how a XXX wizbang will "blow an elk off its feet" .. Fellas, I've shot a 15# bowling ball with a 550 express (7100ft/lb, and 116# recoil) with a lead bullet... said ball rolled 6 feet on flat ground.

Here's a link to me and gene shooting the 550 express, at 116# recoil. I doubt gene weighs 150#
http://www.weaponsmith.com/mov-550-exp.html

HI Chuck
The 475 A&M ballistics printed in the Cartridges of The World are very dangerous to say the least. I don't know why they keep publishing the same info year after year. The 475 A&M is a necked up 460 Weatherby with out any other changes. the only increase that you would have over the 460 Weatherby is the larger barrel diameter which would give a small increase over the 460 or be able to do the same velocities with a bit less pressure. The 470 Mbogo has this advantage plus the case capacity is larger which also drops the pressure even more for the same velocity. Canuck 32 did some pressure testing on his 470 Mbogo with a strain gauge and if I remember correctly he achieved 2550 fps with a 500 grain bullet at 47500 psi average for a five shot group.
Take good care,
Dave

Dave, absolutely. That's why I stated in my post that using 460 Weatherby data both starting and max made much more sense. I've read through your 470mbogo pages and a lot of very good information and a nice cartridge! I'm planning to have my 375 H&H rebored by Clearwater to 470 Capstick later this fall. I'm planning the standard .475 caliber 1 in 10" twist as specified by A-Square for the 470 Capstick. My rifle will weigh about 9.5 lbs without scope, mounts or sling. It's probably a bit light for your 470 Mbogo.

Regards,
Chuck

I would be carefull with this one a rifle named after A&M would probably shoot backwards

A 600 overkill has more power, less pressure and can be made in a 10 or 11 lb. rifle. Ammo is readily available for it too. I was interested in one of the 475 at. mar. rifles about 15 years ago. But there is so much out there now with = power or more power than the 475.

I'm pretty committed to having my CZ 550 in 375 H&H rebored to 470 Capstick. I plan to have it done later this coming fall after elk season. I just was looking up 470 caliber bolt cartridges and ran across the 475 A&M and the 470 Mbogo. The 470 Capstick probably has enough recoil for me in a 9.5 lb rifle ...



Chuck

A 600 overkill has more power, less pressure and can be made in a 10 or 11 lb. rifle. Ammo is readily available for it too. I was interested in one of the 475 at. mar. rifles about 15 years ago. But there is so much out there now with = power or more power than the 475

Bigdoggy you are in a very small percentage of shooters that can handle the recoil of a big bore rifle. Realistically the 470 is probably in the recoil tolerance of a lot higher percentage of shooters.. There aren't many shooters out there that are going to shoot a 600 or 700 and practice enough to be really good with it. Either they build them so heavy to reduce recoil that they become unrealistic to pack in the field or they muzzle brake them so they can shoot them or they download them so they can shoot them. They would be better off with a more shootable caliber to start off with. If you can't do it with a .475 caliber bullet at 2500 fps then there is something wrong. You gain so much in trajectory along with shootability that power shouldn't be the main reason to choose a caliber. Some people max out with a 375 H&H. You are in a very small percentage of shooters. But we are glad your out there
Take good care,
Dave

Dave's right...
Rob's right....
Neal's right...
even I find a acorn once in awhile..
But I forget to mention that these guys are all hunting buddies...

Dave's 470Mbogo got alot of us started wildcatting bigbores.. It is, and you'll hear most of say it, just about the perfect bigbore.

Even the ARs are higher pressure copies, that can barely stumble in the 470mbogo's tracks.

And Rob's 600 scares ME
jeffe

I had one some years ago..It was a great caliber and I liked it..Todays it is a little stiff in the recoil dept for my old shoulders. I would just as soon shoot the 458 Lott as from a practical standpoint it is every bit as good, but again it too is a bit stout for me. I just stick with my beloved .404 and 416s. It was those big bruisers that installed the busitas in my shoulders and wrecked my hearing in the first place.

The 600 Ok scares me too ... I saw it rock (was it Wayne shooting?) back and lift his foot in the air without the brake. I'm 5'10" and 185 lbs, I'm guessing he's a bit bigger than I am.

Chuck

. Hey Chuck375 , I,m pretty keen on building a 475 A&M ,,. I took a bit of the edge off the crew here last winter researching it . I don,t know if in the real world it will kill anything faster than the 460 Whby . but I would like a 3 rifle set of a 460 Whby a 475 A&M and a 500 A- Square ...... I,m probably pig headed enough to scorn all the recomendations to build some other caliber, and will stick with the 3 chosen ...... I would think 460 Whby starting loads would work fine for starting ... I,m planning on useing the CZ550 action and McGowan barrels ,,,

Gumboot,
Thats what I like, a man of conviction. I was just suggesting a 600 overkill for less pressure. It should be a real stomper when you get it finished. To 470 mobogo, we all like different things, thats what makes all the information on here great. I realize the 600 and 700's and 4 bores are not for everybody. Heck, it would be awfully dull if we all likes the same stuff.I love it when someone starts a new gun project. I will be glad to see and hear how a 475 a&m shoots and the progress on this project. Just remember, a bad day messing with guns beats a good day at the office anytime!

chuck375, come up north to my match in september and you can watch wayne shoot the 600 OK and probably shoot it yourself. It ain't that bad.

Hi Old Bull, I had planned on it. I find out tonight if I have to go to Asia for a month to help out Uncle Sam. Spent my summer vacation in the MidEast two years ago, this should be better. At 59 years old I'm always the curiosity when I show up

I've been looking at the 470 Mbogo (which is basically the same thing as the 416/475 improved. Since I have a CZ 550 action, length isn't much of a concern. It's almost a shame to shoot something 375 H&H length in it ...

The 475 A&M does have some appeal though. 460 Weatherby cases are a bit cheaper than Rigby cases and I can buy dies from RCBS. Also I can just use 460 Weatherby starting load data as a guide. I wouldn't expect or need to get much more velocity out of a 500g bullet than the 460 Wby does from a 475 A&M. Those loads online are nuts.

Originally I was going to go with a new barrel (Krieger), but my rifle weighs 10.25 lbs without scope right now and is muzzle heavy. If I go with a heavier contour I'll need to add a recoil reducer to the stock so I'll be at probably 11 plus lbs without scope which makes shooting off hand more difficult for me. I'll have to pay for my barrel band, and sights again also as well as stock work. My current plan is to have Clearwater rebore the barrel to 475 and shorten it to 24". It should get it down to 9.5 lbs or so. Is that too light for a 470 Rigby or a 475 A&M? I like the .475 caliber since it's the largest you can currently buy a Swift A-Frame in.

Sorry for the long post, I plan to send the rifle out in Nov right after elk season so I have to firm up my plans.

Chuck

quote:

Just remember, a bad day messing with guns beats a good day at the office anytime!

Amen brother...

Good news Asia trip is off for the time being, I may be able to make it to Montana.



Chuck

Hmmm... So, how do I build one of these w. a maroon and gray laminate stock, and a big muzzle brake... (Hullabaloo Caneck Caneck...)

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:
Hmmm... So, how do I build one of these w. a maroon and gray laminate stock, and a big muzzle brake... (Hullabaloo Caneck Caneck...)

Any color but orange!

We've built a rifle in this caliber for a client many moons ago and those velocity claims are far from the truth in a 13lb rifle 24 inch bbl it wasent as bad as expected the client loves the thing but you gotta love webbys to love this gem

The original article on the 475 A&M mentions an 8 lb rifle. When you plug it in to a recoil calculator, I get 168 ft.lbs of recoil at a jarring recoil speed of 38 ft/sec. It won't scoot you on your seat if a descent sized guy, but its gonna smack the dog shit out of you .

I agree bigdoggy now we are working on a 585 African express

The 475 A&M is realistically just a slightly larger bored 460 Weatherby magnum. The ballistic advantage obtained by increasing bore diameter from 0.458 to 0.475 is SMALL (on the order of 1.2%) and is hardly worth mentioning. CTW is quoting BS ballistics dated from a time before chronographs were plentiful. Believe what you want though, I really don't care.

Guys the .600Ok is extremely shootable by literally anyone who knows how to shoot a gun with substantial recoil. If your foot comes off the ground, you were and I will repeat this, NOT HOLDING THE GUN CORRECTLY. Just doesnt happen. Even full power 12GaFH loads wont hurt you and it can generate way more power. The issue most folks really dont know how to shoot these guns and so the urban legends are created. 5 mintes with me and its a different story, but like a Flinch you cant fix it yourself.-Rob

Very true but some just want something a bit different such as those who build 510 wells when theres the 500a2

I don't disagree with Scotts, but the exact same argument can be made for the 470 Mbogo vs the 450 Rigby or the 470 Capstick vs the 458 Lott. It seems to me that the .495 A-Square is a lovely design that should've been truly made in .495 caliber to avoid any future issues with over 50 cals. That being said, I rebarreled my 375 H&H to 500 Jeffery ...

Chuck

Having a plethora of cartridges is a good thing, no matter how slight the differences or redundant the purpose. Imagine going to Sherwin Williams and having to chose from only five colors.

... I havn,t progressed very far with mine , but still am hunting for an affordable action , Too many cool rifles and handguns getting in the way .... May use a 17 Enfield .......

Rob,
I totally agree with you. The 600 ok is the way to go. I currently have 3 of them at 8.3 lbs, 10.5 lbs and 13.6lbs. All are shootable if you know what you are doing. Plus way better ballistics than a 475 A&M could ever reach.

True the 600 ok is a shoulder fired beast but not many clients can fully take the recoil or shoot em reliable so you can tote around a 600 if you'd like but if you cant hit the sweet spot whats the point

that is the goal; to control the uncontrollable...

Rich
Buff Killer

Its simple add weight and a brake then you have a rifle you hate lugging around and its to dang loud and also as a client hunter what point is there to have over a 458 of any flavor

Express-Rifles. If you can shoot a Lott you can shoot a .600Ok with the "TROPICAL LOAD" i.e 900gr bullet at 1950fps out of a 10.5lb properly designed gun. In fact most people who own and shoot a .600Ok are way better shots than the average guy who has maybe run a box of ammo through his Lott because they have taken the time to learn how to deal with recoil and because they are very experienced shooters in the first place! That Tropical load will flat stop anything on this planet that charges and more than one 150lb weakling has said the following" WOW that wasn't bad at all!!! The real way you can tell is if they want to shoot it again. Oh you can make it into a monster if you want to but there is really no need to. However, to see it in action is a huge confidence builder. -Rob

What Rob says, plus one!

I do happen to have a .475" barrel out in the shop, and a standard .505/.475 Gibbs set of reamers in a box. I think that it is the .475 Royale design, basically a .505 with the neck reduced about .030" and no other changes. I learned from benchrest shooters that it is a great idea to have your own reamers for anything you might do again.

Rich
Buff Killer