The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores craigster is ScottS = dumb assed POS!!!Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| one of us |
craigster is ScottS is Judy is the same POS troll TROLL EXPOSED!!! TROLL EXPOSED!!! TROLL EXPOSED!!! craigster = Scotts = a useless POS dumb troll!!!  Quote: | ||
|
| one of us |
Mike, That is the plan, but it takes some time to get all the preliminary work done. Hopefully, we will have something together by August, something that hurls significant hunks of lead and/or bronze.  My partner in this little endeavor has another project he is finishing up, which should be done by the time we get our CYA (cover your arse) letter from BATF. If he doesn't mind I may post pics of that one too, I think some will find it cool. 500grains, Actually we have three lathes, two vertical mills, a drill press (very important piece of precision equipment that is), a couple air compressors, horizontal band saw, three welders, alot of misc tooling, torches, and a homemade rifling broach. No surface grinder, so if we have to have something surface ground we will either have to draw file and stone, or outsource. That is just the metal shop, the wood shop contains a homemade "Shop smith", homemade band saw (three pulley deep throat), 16" vertical band saw, 10" table saw, thickness sander (sanding drum version of thickness planer), 8" joiner, shaper, router table (mini shaper if you will), mics hand tools (chisels, planes, hand saws, belt and orbital sanders, hand circular saws, etc) big belt sander, some more misc stuff. Now the broach we made is suitable for 50 cal and up, and with twists which are greater than 42" per turn. So it is really a BP broach. If we redesigned the rotational cam mechanism we could increase the twist rate, I do not know to what degree would be possible though. For this little experiment the existing broach will suffice. The broach is a draw style, typically using a 2 or 4 groove button, with the work peice being indexed to acquire 2, 4, or 8 groove barrels. The broach has a maximum stroke of 3' (limited by the travel of the hydraulic cylinder), but typically we do not do anything over 28" with the maximum I am aware of being 32" (which is the effective limit since the draw rod end fixtures are basically abutted up against the barrel blank at that length). The base of the broach is nothing more than a piece of 6" X 10" X 3/4" (those are the dimensions if memory serves) structural "I" beam we bought off of a scrap yard. The hydraulic ram is a 3.5" hydraulic cylinder with a 36" stroke, which is drive by the hydraulic system of a farm tractor (makes the hydraulic system so much more portable you know  ). I now understand some of your comments, though. If we had to purchase all the capital equipment, this project would be highly cost prohibitive. By the way, I am thinking of building either a 505 Gibbs or a 585 Nyati. Seems like the time to do it, since I will be in the shop anyway. Which would you recommend? Kicking around the idea of using a Ruger No1, but the bolt action is my favorite hunting action, so... Scott | |||
|
| one of us |
Well we plan on machining the barrel this weekend. After that we wait till we get the CYA letter from the BATF. Scott | |||
|
| One of Us |
What happened to the other 864 "projects" you claim you have "started" Scott?  You're a fountain of bullshit. The only thing I've ever seen you start are more and more phony memberships.  | |||
|
| one of us |
 The barrel blank is turned and reamed. Tomorrow we shall see how the rifling goes. We have a new draw rod, which will provide us with a twist of 1 in 35". The rod is 1" in diameter so hopefully it is stiff enough. Also, we will now be going with an ~ 1.04" groove diameter. The barrel is reamed to 1.031". The 1.04" groove diameter will allow us to cut the riflings in one pass, successfully we hope. Well we shall soon find out. Anyway, guess we are not building a true 4 bore anymore. I guess it is more like a 4.05 bore. Scott | |||
|
| One of Us |
Wow, I'm really excited about this project. I sure wish I had the technical skills and knowledge that you and your pals must have. And what a shop! Post some pictures of the turned and reamed barrel, and of that magnificent shop, too! You surely have the technology for posting pictures, right? I can't wait! | |||
|
| one of us |
How many grooves?What is outside diameter of barrel?What composition and the source of barrel?With a 1.031 bore hole, now if it was rifled to right debth for that caliber you should still be able to get grooves out to 1.050 inch diameter.Are you using a broach(known as a button)or a cutter for rifling.If cutter you can make what ever number of passes as needed.Waiting for pics.Ed. | |||
|
| one of us |
I am excited to see the pics of the barrel you have now finished, can you get them by tomarrow? | |||
|
| one of us |
Here are a couple of pics of the 'finished' bore. There is a little index error in the rifling, we are using a 4 blade broach cutter (button) which we index once to achieve our 8 groove barrel. Also, you can see that there appeared to be some loading up as the bore is not very smooth, I will try and lap it out with a wooden dowel and 280 grit lapping compound. Anyway, the pics aren't the best, my camera isn't very good as extreme close-ups.  Another shot:  Ed, we can't get a full 1.05" groove diameter with our set-up (starting from a 1.031" bore). We are glad we got what we got. The groove diameter measures around 1.04" +/- I will measure again once I have lapped (smoothed the damn thing) out. The barrel dimensions are: Straight walled OD - 1.950" +/- (started with 2" barstock) Bore ID - 1.031" should be +/- 0.001" (reamer spec) Groove diameter - 1.04" +/- (again final dim. after lap TBD) Barrel length - 24.125" +/- Anyway, now we await complete design drawings and our CYA letter from the BATF. Scott | |||
|
| one of us |
You can get a 1 inch adjustable barrel lap from J&L in Detroit-1-800-521-9520 for about 15 bucks/it adjusts up to 15% larger.They have all sizes for any of you on here needing to smooth up barrels and rifling.Just use lapping compound with it.Ed. | |||
|
one of us |
Scott. IF this is going to be a muzzle loader, then you don't need a CYA letter as it's already spelled out in the CFR covering the GCA and NFA. Also, given the previous mishaps on this forum, I'd like to see your barrel with a post it note saying this is Scotts barrel maybe sitting next to the tractor you used as the hydralic source before I'm going to bite on this. If you post that, I'd like to see your barrel broach setup for real as I'm toying with the idea of how to make a button/broach out of O-1 drill rod to experiment with on home made barrels. My first attempts will be only 6" pistol barrels to see if it could work without spending the money on the ram and pump.... | |||
|
| one of us |
Lar, This project is not a muzzle loader. It is, initially anyway, a test bed. Essentially, it is a breach loaded cannon. The rifled barrel has a breach nut, which is locked to the barrel via interupted threads. A 60 throw of the breach handle removes the nut, the empty case is extracted, a new cartridge is loaded, the breach nut is returned and locked down, and the hammer cocked. A remote actuated, linear hammer assembly, impacts the spring loaded striker (firing pin) in the breach nut. It is very simple, works very well, and we are concerned the BATF may consider this a 26.5 mm cannon (because it really is), so excuse us for wanting a CYA letter. You aren't the one who will be tied up in court/prison for ten years, if the BATF decides we are breaking the friggin law. The broach is not not mine, and the owner doesn't want me to post pics, sorry. I helped him design it, but he worked out the bugs and paid for the majority of the components. Besides that he is concerned someone may injure themselves and he would get sued. Perhaps he is paranoid, but in today's world who can blame the guy. Broaches are simple machines, you should have no major difficulty fabricating one. For us the biggest problem is maintaining twist rate, and getting adequate chip breaking. The tractor we used today was a John Deere 730. It is a two cylinder farm tractor, approximately 60 Hp made in the late 50's. My partner restores the darned things. If I recall correctly this two cylinder engine is something like 370 cubic inches! Thats 4 1/2 Harleys! You want to see what one looks like go do a Google search. Ed, The wooden dowel works very well and is only a couple bucks. The barrel turned out relatively piss poor,compared to a commercial barrel, but it should make our bullets spin. Don't know about stabliling the bullets, but failry confident the bullets will spin. If, upon completion of this project, I decide to manufacture a shoulder held 4 bore rifle, I will procure a commerically manufactured barrel which conforms to your "standardized" dimensions! I have learned that much thus far. Thanks for the tip, just the same. I hope we will be able to complete this project, as it is great working with my partner again. The barrel is SAE 1340, in the normalized condition. I got just over 6' of it from a local machine shop, cheap. They ahd it left over from a job they had done, and it isn't a commonly used steel anymore. Besides they did not like the way it machined. It doesn't cut as well as plain carbon 1040 or 4140 does, that I can assure you (at least not this piece). On the plus side it is tough, tough stuff. Scott | |||
|
| one of us |
" You want to see what one looks like go do a Google search. " I don't want to see what the tractor looks like, I want to see your barrel sitting on the tractor to see if your pulling our chain or not. You show me your's and I'll show you mine.  | |||
|
| one of us |
   It's abit crowded in here, but they are real. You should put that 4.05 bore barrel on your Mosin Nagant. Send us a picture of the barrel on the tractor that helped make it. | |||
|
| one of us |
Nice collection Lar45. I cannot post the pics you request as the owner of those particular pieces of equipment doesn't want them posted. Sorry if that upsets you. By the way, you may get further in your requests if you don't imply that the people you are making the requests of are liars! I have posted pics of several of my rifles here at AR. Not all my rifles mind you, but several. I truly believe, your comments are based more upon jealousy, than doubting of my word. If that is the case, I am truly sorry for you. Some of the others on this sight simply got pissed off because they have some mental disease which makes them need to have the biggest and baddest guns. When I corrected their exaggerated ballistics their shorts got all in a bunch. Their lies were blantantly obvvious to anyone who actually owned some or all of the cartridges these ding dongs were talking about. Finally, I find your comments about our respect for the authorities at the BATF most humorous! I recall you, yourself, all concerned about the BATF, with regard to some double barrel pistol you wanted to manufacture. The word hypocrit comes immediately to mind. If you don't believe we have done what we have done (why is that because you don't know how??) then ignore me. If all goes according to plan we will have video to share with all of you in less than 6 months! Ignore that too, for all I care! Scott | |||
|
| One of Us |
There you have it guys, the end of another project by Scott. You'll never see any pictures (or the video) because there is nothing to take pictures of. Ever notice how when you get down to the nut cuttin' ol' Scott boy changes his tune and gets defensive when he's about to get called on his bullshit? And all the excuses why pictures can't be posted or facts verified? ToddE, Axel, Judy Mauser, ScottS, all the same loser piece of shit troll. He's a waste of oxygen and his posts are a waste of bandwidth and an insult to the great website we've got goin' here. I really hate to see anybody give the looser piece of shit the time of day, much less any responce to bullshit he pollutes this site with. Yeah, I know, this is a responce to him, but I wanted to bring it to the attention to those here that might think that this guy is for real. In a way he is real, a real worthless piece of shit. I almost feel sorry for him. | |||
|
| one of us |
The only trolls around here are individuals like you craigster! How old are you anyway? Why are you so concerned about my 4 bore anyway? For that matter, why are you so concerned about what guns I own? I actually own several big bore rifles, have owned many more over the years. I hunt with them, and have killed many critters with big bores over the years. So everyone knows, I have posted pictures of MY rifles, multiple times. I have had posters from this site ask about me at public ranges, I wonder if they were surprised to find that the range officers knew me, etc, etc. I am beginning to wonder about the sanity of some members of this site. I would really like to know what makes these wackos tick! I could let them fire off the 4 bore 50 times and they would still call me a fake, a liar, a fraud, etc, etc. Really, what gives with these freaks? Scott PS - If the BATF tells us not to do it, I will post their letter here for all to see, otherwise we should be hurling 1.04" diameter hunks of lead/bronze by August (or earlier depending upon the BATF). If all goes to plan it should only take a couple of days tops to finish this thing off. | |||
|
| one of us |
As far as the BATF goes, from your initial description, I thought you were going to make a muzzle loader to test things first. If that was the case then you don't need a letter. If you put a cannon breach on then yes you might want to get a letter for building a 4bore rifle unless the cartrige is listed as a sporting cartrige. Does anyone know where that list might be posted? I haven't seen it at the BATF website. It takes along time to get a written reply from them BTW. I did get a written reply from them on my proposed double pistol on an Antique action, but they skirted the technical issue that I asked about. I have since found an original 70cal Howda, it's a pinfire, but is fun enough, so I dropped the conversion project. I also have 2 577 pinfires now BTW. I am not jealous. Given your questionable standing, why not post some pics of your barrel to show us that it's yours? I don't know why an old tractor would be top Secret info. Show us that you are for real and I'll send you some 4 bore brass for your project along with a public appolagy. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Read my post again Scotty boy, I didn't mention your alleged 4 bore at all, nor did I inquire about what guns you own. I really don't care about either because both are obviously figments of your very limited imagination. | |||
|
| one of us |
craigster is ScottS is Judy is the same POS troll TROLL EXPOSED!!! TROLL EXPOSED!!! TROLL EXPOSED!!! craigster = Scotts = a useless POS dumb troll!!! Quote: | |||
|
| one of us |
Lar45, This is from my orignial post, you will notice I state cases, typically cases are used for breach loaders, right. Quote: I agree though that the post is not clear. I really do not understand what you mean by my history. I have NEVER posted anything that was not mine, or true. There are several people on this sight that accuse me of this, but these accusations are ALL baseless lies! By the way, originally the plan was to use a 26 mm reamer (hench a bore diameter of 1.026") an 1 1/32" reamer was abaout $30 cheaper, believe it or not. Also, as it turned out our broach would not cut to the appropriate rifling depth (1.051") so we settled for what we could get ~ 1.04". Scott Scott | |||
|
| One of Us |
Quote: Yup, I can understand why the owner of a John Deere tractor would be concerned about having a picture of it posted on the internet. We all need to maintain the strictest of confidentiality regarding our tractors. | |||
|
| one of us |
Unfortunately, Dan, there is more to it than that. As I stated earlier, you and several others seem unable to comprehend that there are other people in this world that can do things you cannot figure out. If I post this picture, what next, the broach, already explained that isn't going to happen. I could let you cry babies shoot the damned thing and you would still call me a troll. Look, I have posted pictures of my rifles with post-it-notes. The very rifles you all have said I don't own. That made no difference you still say I don't own them. Member of this sight have inquired about me at local gun ranges. They discovered that I do in fact own and shoot the very guns I claim to own and shoot. So on and so forth. However, I am still called a troll, a liar, a fraud, etc. What the hell are you so frightened of? The truth? I think I know who the frauds, liars, and trolls are. The four bore is very real. It exists for only purpose. That purpose being to gather the truth about what a classical 4 bore metallic case rifle could do! Personally, I figure a 10 Dram charge of FFg will be more than almost any human could handle. A 10 dram charge of Fg is more likely shootable by a mere super human, but will fall far short of mach 1 when a 2250 gr projectile is fired. So in the end, I will be able to post the truth about the 4 bore. No Quick load BS simulations, like so many here like to post about many many big bore cartridges. I will post the truth. I will have pictures, at a minimum, and video with a little luck, of the old girl burnin' powder and spitting lead. The hope is to blast holes in some old small block Chevy engine blocks to see just how well the 4 bore would do against a skull. I figure better than most here would believe, with a bronze solid that is. So I ask you again Dan, what are you so frightened of? Truth that scary? Scott | |||
|
Moderator |
"the team"... so, you aren't actually DOING any of this.. you are paying for it to be done... "i have never posted anything that wasn't mine" uh,huh... so, the pics you posted HOTLINKED to AHR was your rifle? "i've never said anything that wasn't untrue" reminds me of the saying " i always lie, and I am liing right now' You don't even care to build a FOUR BORE, rather, you take YOUR OPINION of what it should be and then make a barrel that looks like you hammered a rather dull 4 flute end mill through a tractor axel... "someone may hurt themselves with the broach"... scott, the only broach you would have would have a clasp on the back... "the wife used to race".. you mean Judy, who divorced you? give it a rest... jeffe | |||
|
| one of us |
If you said that this barrel was made with the help of a tractor hydralic system, then post a pic of the barrel on said tractor. You do that and I'll turn you some 4bore cases out of 20mm brass and send them to you, just tell me the rim and base spec you want.  Here's a sample case next to a 12ga round. | |||
|
| one of us |
jeffeosso, I thought your were ignoring me! Since you know so very much about me, why don't you know if that rifle is mine or not. Sound like you are jealous of my machining capabilities. Too bad, for you. Seriously Jeff, I have been a mechanic for 8 years, what are you a computer nerd? Dude I get paid to turn wrenches and run machines. You get paid to untangle your information system gliches?? Let see you rifle a 1.031" bore any better!! Lar, I posted the basic case dimensions already. 4.12" long, 1.031" neck ID, and we will straight bore it. You 20 mm Vulcan brass ain't big enough. Scott | |||
|
| one of us |
how long is that "barrel" in the pictures? 3 or 4 inches? looks like it peters out down toward the bottom right corner. looks like a radius down there. | |||
|
| one of us |
scot, One thing to remember with BP is that barrel length is really more important than powder charge. BP has a near constant burning rate as opposed to smokeless. For example, if you are shooting a 24" barrel muzzle loader in .50 caliber you have in effect a barrel length equal to 48 calibers. If you use a 24" barrel on a 4 bore you have a barrel length of 23 calibers. What does this mean. In the simplest terms this. You have aver twice the barrel with the 50 caliber you have with the 4 bore. So you will get about twice the muzzle velocity with the 50 caliber you do with the 4 bore, if using equivalent grades of powder. That does not mean you are using equivalent powder charges, though. So if you are using 120 grains of FFg in you 50 caliber muzzle loader from above and achieving 1250 fps with a 450 grain conical, then a 14 dram charge (385 grains) would propel a 2250 gr bullet to about 650 fps in the 4 bore. With a rifle weight of 22 pounds, I believe your statements about recoil of a 4 bore. FFFg should bump the ol' 4 bore up to about 800 fps with that bullet. The 4 bore rifle suffers dramatically from too short of a barrel. But all of that is based upon analytical tools (correlated 50 cal, 54 cal, 58 cal, to 12 bore muzzle loaders, and one 8 bore breechloader). Determining the truth is what this project is all about. By the way, when I say tolerable recoil to the average shooter I am referring to a recoil velocity below 10 fps, which is a mighty wimpy load in a 22 pound 4 bore hurling 2250 gr slugs. Hence the comments about the 10 dram load.Scott | |||
|
| one of us |
Scott, Can you tell us where to find more info on the 4 Bore and others in that family. Found some info on a search but sure you or some one can point me in the right direction. Thanks for yor time, Hee Haw | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores craigster is ScottS = dumb assed POS!!!
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia