The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores which 458 LOTT???Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| One of Us |
Can anyone tell which make of 458 LOTT is best within the $1800-2000 mark for use as a DGR rifle for an african guide and why??? | ||
|
| One of Us |
CZ550; reliable, holds 5 rounds in magazine, easy and relatively cheap to modify the small things that you may want to change i.e. shorten barrel, winchester type safety (made in RSA by Danie joubert), very common in southern africa so most PH's and gunsmiths will be able to advise you if you do encounter a problem and there are agents in JHB who import and can get spares. As an appy i started with a CZ550 in 375 H&H and and 2 years later bought a Lott on a ZKK 602. Had Winchester type safety's fitted on both so there is no confusion. Over time i have slowly customized them so that now they are functionally identical and only have cosmetic differences. Bottom line is that BRNO and CZ (new BRNO) are the equivalent of the Toyota Landcruiser in the African hunting and guiding industry - you cant go wrong with them. | |||
|
one of us |
Bearing in mind where you are, you might like to look at the Sabi Rifles website at www.sabirifles.co.za. They do make a 'Ranger' model that is reasonable priced and I think you can specify things like barrel length, sights etc and you can have it made to your measurements..... which makes a big difference. They've made two rifles for me and I'm delighted with both the product and the customer service. Oh, and welcome to the forum.  | |||
|
Moderator |
for the price? the ruger rsm, as it fits, feeds, and functions right out of the box. or a CZ+ a trip to American hunting rifles - AHR opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
|
| One of Us |
+1, for the money the RSM is the way to go. Most of the time CZ's need extra work. "An individual with experience is never at the mercies of an individual with an argument" | |||
|
| One of Us |
Good luck buying a Ruger in Africa; and with a suggested retail of U$2400 if you can get one here it will be 40% more expensive landed. If you live in the States it is possibly a better bet but there is a good reason CZ has the market share it has amongst guides, PH's rangers etc in Africa. It is by no means the best gun but possibly is the best bet if you need a "tool" that you will carry and use on a daily basis. Have a chat to Ganyana, he should give you some good pointers on what to get. | |||
|
one of us |
Bad idea. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
|
| one of us |
Good idea. Doesn't need a new safety. They're fine the way they are. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
|
| Moderator |
Bill, why do you think the ruger is a "bad idea" ? What are the specific failures YOU have experienced? I disagree on the CZ safety, but that's a matter of taste, not specific failure opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
|
| One of Us |
I vote for the CZ, and agree it may need a bit of work to make it feed reliably, I too, do not have a problem with the safety. I find nothing wrong with the Ruger; just liked the CZ a bit better. Karl Evans | |||
|
| One of Us |
thanks for the info so far, i am going to be getting the weapon from the states and then brought over to zim where it will be used to hunt by a friend then it will be left as a "tip" for me. From what i am hearing CZ seams to be the way to go i am thinking. | |||
|
| one of us |
CZ has pretty much cornered the receiver market. There are a lot more CZ's in southern Africa than Rugers. Parts if ever needed will be much easier to find for a CZ. Holding 2 or 3 down in a Ruger is not within light years of 5 down in a CZ. Nothing particularly wrong with a Ruger except the weight and magazine, but given the choice, it's a CZ. Opinions are cheap. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I have both Ruger and CZ. I like both but I prefer the CZ - BUT ONLY AFTER AHR TUNEUP. Or for cheap toy as-is. The basic CZ American safari have so many problems out of box it is just a disgrace. But, the cost is only $1000 and for a couple hundred min AHR can make 100% dependable. For a couple hundred more AHR can add upgrades dejour. The best upgrade (IMHO)is bolt safety. My CZ 458 actually holds 6 down! It also came with two feeding problems and a bent barrel, thank you! So buyer beware. Test fire, shoot it more, and sight it in open site and scope - before sending it out for the mandatory AHR rework. | |||
|
One of Us |
Just buy Jeff's RSM. It's in the classifieds right now. Jeff, send him some pictures. P.S. I have have had four or five CZs and never had a problem with any of them right out of the box. Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
|
| One of Us |
Another though at Ruger v. CZ. Ruger is a one size fits all old-school american company. CZ is a try harder, listen and make changes company. Since introduced the CZ has undergone a lot of changes such as safety, cross bolts and bedding. And new options include synthetic stock (not for me). You also have choice of semi custom built CZ by the custom shop. Cost $3000+/- but worth every penny. Choice calibers, any barrel length and weight, other features. And, you have AHR full custom built on CZ action for 4-5k ( it think, more less) I guess the point here is Ruger is very slow to make changes offer choices in low volume RMS product. CZ is tweaking designs and offering more choices every year. Much as I like to buy American and like Rugers, I have to give CZ big points in effort, listen & improve dept. I say thank you with my wallet. | |||
|
one of us |
I also vote for the CZ550. Have one in 375 and love it! Since you mentioned a budget of ~ $1800, then I would say to buy a new CZ for $900 (or even a used one at that), then send it to Wayne at AHR. He'll make your rifle feed and function flawlessly (which is what you want in a DGR). You can do upgrade number one ($500) or pick and choose stuff. I like the 2 position safety, so opted for a barrel band sling swivel over a new safety. Wayne has a great turn around time and does excellent work. ____________________________ If you died tomorrow, what would you have done today ... 2018 Zimbabwe - Tuskless w/ Nengasha Safaris 2011 Mozambique - Buffalo w/ Mashambanzou Safaris | |||
|
| one of us |
CZ..my 416 Rigby functioned flawlessly right out of the box. As told here before, but for a brief condensed version, my Ruger RSM in 416 wouldn't feed more than the top round reliably. Different bullets, etc, failed to correct it. Ruger wouldn't work on it since I had added a recoil pad and according to the Ruger rep, that was the reason it wouldn't feed...that and she told me that I was probably using an aftermarket magazine, since they are available for every Ruger firearm manufactured (her words). Finally had a gunsmith get if feeding right and then sold it as fast as possible and bought a CZ. So, yes, this was a personal experience with both Ruger and CZ. | |||
|
One of Us |
I have both in 416 Rigby. The CZ is better balanced, less felt recoil, lighter and overal I like better _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
|
| One of Us |
its looking like CZ is the way to go. PLEASE CAN ANYONE GIVE ME ANY ADVICE ON WHAT TO GET DONE TO THE CZ BY A SMITH BEFORE I GET IT. THE WEAPON WILL BE BOUGHT IN THE STATES BY A FRIEND AND HE CAN GET THE WORK DONE THERE BEFORE IT COMES TO ME | |||
|
| One of Us |
I have no idea why people modify the safetys on Brno ZKK/CZ rifles.  I have a 1989 production ZKK-602. It began life chambered in .375H&H. The original owner had it rebarreled to .416RM. It's still got the original 'backwards' safety and the funky 2-piece trigger. It functions perfectly in every regard. I have a CZ-550 that was chambered in .458WM. I had it reamed to .458 Lott. Still has the stock safety, functions perfectly, same as the old ZKK-602. The only mods I consider absolutely necessary on the Brno ZKK/CZ rifles, is a barrel band. Secondary importance is to get the action glass bedded in the stock. My old ZKK-602 is at the 'smith right now. I bought a McMillan stock for it. So it's being inletted and glass bedded, plus I had him shorten the barrel from 25" to 23.5" and install a barrel band. But I'm leaving the original trigger, safety, sights etc alone. I can't wait to get it! Maybe I'll have it on time for a spring bear hunt this year!  | |||
|
| one of us |
I suspect this is more the norm. If there was a problem w/a CZ I'd just send it back and get 'em ti fix it. Nothing against AHR but one might want to evaluate the real need for this work if: The Lott will probably see out it's life riding around in a dusty Land Cruiser, being dropped repeatedly on the ground, having the dust cleaned out from inside the bolt maybe once in it's life, or maybe not, having the front sight broken off the second week in the bush, and probably staying that way for ten to fifteen years, getting it's stock broken at the wrist only to be put back together with a bit of copper wire from a dead poacher's bangle. Need I say more? ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
|
| Moderator |
Well, which one? the ZKK is an entirely different and BACKWARDS safety, even compared to the CZ opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
|
| one of us |
And ya don't need no stupid barrel band swivel either. It's just for looks. You guys got just too much money! ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Model 70 safety and barrel band for the sling are nice, but get the bedding checked for sure! AHR seems to do very good work, just in case feeding also needs checking. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I've been looking at this precise question pretty carefully lately. So far, I have concluded (tentatively) that CZ may be the way to go, if for no other reason that that one can get it, factory, in a laminated stock. For a few bucks more, A-Square Hannibal. This summer, I hope to shoot those three so that I can make a decision based on something other than Internet research. I may just decide the hell with it, and stick by Holland's .375. | |||
|
| Moderator |
sometimes i wonder if your idiot cousin gets on your computer .. a 458lott with a stock mount recoil stupid is just stupid ... but, then again, you tend to buck convention just to make hay opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
|
| One of Us |
Either one could be considered ass-backwards, but to me I have no issues. The CZ-550 safety is virtually identical functionally to the Rem M-700s, which I have grown up on. I have had ZERO problems with mine. Since I am so used to the Remington safety, I see no advantage to the 3-pos Winchester, and yes I understand the merits of it. But I should add that I did consider that mod. Dropped the idea though.
I had problems with ripping my hand on the front sling swivel stud. My hand wants to be right there, so it had to go, and so I hadda get a barrel band. I do consider it a must have! | |||
|
| one of us |
Okay, CZ has a american magnum safari on their site, comes in 505 gibbs, has a barrel band sling swivel, double crossbolts, mercury recoil reducer. two questions 1. what could it possibly need, other than a safety if you don't like the factory one? 2. list is something like 3200, what is DEALERS cost? okay, last question 3. if a guy does a semi-inlet stock himself, can he build a 500 jeffery mauser for less than he can buy a cz 505 gibbs? isn't the barrel on the RSM an integral quarter rib barrel? Red | |||
|
| one of us |
Guys, Can I point out that the guy who asked the question is called Zimguide which would indicate he's probably in Zimbabwe and a guide. If I'm right in that assumption(?) then the prices you're quoting are irrelevant because he'll have to add on shipping & taxes etc from the USA. If he is in Zim and assuming he can't buy a rifle locally, he'd be better off buying from SA where incidentally, the country is awash with good second hand rifles being offered for sale at knock down prices. If my assumption is correct and he wants a good qulaity rifle, I'd look at the Sabi Rifles, Ranger model and if budget didn't allow for that, I'd suggest looking for a used rifle or something like a Marlin in SA. Of course, it could be that I'm wrong in my assumption in his location and profession in which case he chose a bloody silly name!  | |||
|
| One of Us |
Steve You are 100% correct in all your assumptions. I am a guide in Zimbabwe. However i do have a client that is happy to buy the weapon in the states for me and then bring it out to zim on a hunt then leave it with me as a "tip" However the max the absolute max i can spend is $2000 on this. I am looking into what the duty would be on getting a rifle from SA up to Zim. I am going to get in comms with sabi rifles and see if they know anything about this. Basically i am trying to cover all bases and do as much research as possible before i lay out my hard earned cash!! "zimguide' | |||
|
| one of us |
Mate, I think you'll find he'll have problems legally bringing you one from the States..... he can probably do it but this post 9/11 society in which we live makes these things difficult. My guess is that if you buy something in SA the dealer will be able to deliver it to the border crossing for you and you can collect it from there........ and bringing in that way instead of through HRE would probably mean less import tax...... if you get my drift. If you get down to Sabi Rifles to take a look at anything, give me a call on 0832777114 and we'll have a beer.  | |||
|
| one of us |
FWIW, I just called Eugene at Sabi for something else and one of his .458 Ranger models is about US$2600 but he's probably got some used 458s for sale and it's probably worth sending him an email or giving him a call anyway. you might also find he can do you a lower price if you go for a plastic stock. | |||
|
| one of us |
I own the CZ 500 American Safari 458 Lott And I didn't do anything to it I shot it right out of the box. It a beatuful Rifle the stock is Laminated. It holds 5 rounds. And shoots like a dream. | |||
|
One of Us |
I would probably go for a Winchester with a Controlled feed action. All of these recommended rifles must have their bedding and feeding checked. I left a rifle with a Zim PH with no fuss. But I am from Australia and not the USA so don't now what the issues would be from there. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia