I was in the local gun shop and they just got the new 2005 Remington catalog and what do I see, the Biakal guns under the Spartan label. It appears that big green is going to market all of the russian made guns including the single shots, over unders as well as the double rifles. I knew they were doing shotguns and have seen a couple on the shelves so now perhaps we'll actually see some now. Not holding my breath though.

funny,
i had just got an email from eaa that said remington will have them out in mid 2005 as the spartan....

jeffe

http://www.baikalinc.ru/eng/prod/rifle/mr221/

Funny but the Baikal website lists the SxS 45-70 rifle as being in the "pre-production stage>"

They also have an O/U at http://www.baikalinc.ru/eng/prod/rifle/mr251/

But the 45-70 is not listed.

Good hunting!

http://www.spartangunworks.com/riflescombos.htm

its on Rem's site.

Billy,
THANKS!!

Now i have to find a distributor to take my order...

jeffe

Maybe I am a pesimist, but I always chuckle to myself about the "mysterious" Russian 45-70 double rifle that is supposed to cost less than $1000 and come out "next year."

10 years ago, the FFL guy at my local Fred Myers in AK kept telling me about it, and the years went by and the years went by and nothing showed up. Every year or so someone starts talking about it again, but mysteriously it keeps getting put off and put off. It seems to have been delayed longer than the Ruger Gold Lable and the Norma reloading manual put together.

Chasseur,

From Reminton's Spartan catalog section:

Model SPR18, SPR22, & SPR94 Specifications
Model
Item # Ga./
Caliber Chamber BBL
Length Trigger Choke OA
Length LOP Wt/
Lbs MSRP
SPR18 89942 223 Rem — 23 1/2" ST — 39 3/4" 14" 6 3/4 $223

SPR18 89944 243 Rem — 23 1/2" ST — 39 3/4" 14" 6 3/4 $223

SPR18 89946 270 Win — 23 1/2" ST — 39 3/4" 14" 6 3/4 $223

SPR18 89948 30-06 Sprg — 23 1/2" ST — 39 3/4" 14" 6 3/4 $223

SPR22 89976 30-06 Sprg — 23 1/2" DT — 40 1/2" 14 1/4" 7 1/2 $559

SPR22 89980 45-70 Govt — 23 1/2" DT — 40 1/2" 14 1/4" 7 1/2 $559

SPR94 89392 410 / 22 LR 3" 24" SST SC-3 40 1/2" 14 1/4" 7 1/2 $237

SPR94 89390 410 / 17 HMR 3" 24" SST SC-3 40 1/2" 14 1/4" 7 1/2 $237

SPR94 89394 410 / 22 WMR 3" 24" SST SC-3 40 1/2" 14 1/4" 7 1/2 $237

SPR94 89330 12 / 223 Rem 3" 24" DT SC-4 40 1/2" 14 1/4" 8 $516

SPR94 89338 12 / 30-06 Sprg 3" 24" DT SC-4 40 1/2" 14 1/4" 8 $516

SPR94 89334 12 / 308 Win 3" 24" DT SC-4 40 1/2" 14 1/4" 8 $516

Roger QSL

Roger,

Sorry if my post seemed a little rude. Just been hearing about this thing for so long with no proof I just I'm pretty dubious that I'll ever see one.

Taking a look at the website it appears to be the pictures that I've seen for quite some time. I am curious to how the barrel regulation is for the price that they are offering. I assume its a type of self-regulation.

If it works and they become availible I'd be interested in checking them out, but I still have doubts they will be out.

Thanks for the information.

I made the comment a yr or so back, I doubted they would ever get tooled up and produced. If I had to bet one way or the other, I'd bet they make it this time, although not at the target date whatever it is.

Chasseur,

No offense taken. Just thought you might like to see what big green was offering. BTW, I looked at one of Spartan's SXS in 12 gauge, and what I saw would be truck gun equiptment. Very heavily built and rough in texture. I think I would rather plunk down a few more hundred and get a shiny truck gun. JMO
Not sure if the SXS double rifle is going to be as rough, just have to wait and see.

Roger QSL

A dble rifle in 45-70 ? Ladies& Gentleman This is proof there is a God!!!! Only problem now is are they going to come to Australia.Or will our beloved Prime-minister Ban em like his tried to ban everything else to do with shooting????

DOK
I sure wish Raytrade had a web site.

I just got done talking to my brother he was at the remington booth at the shot show. He handled one of the 45x70 double rifles he thought was boy this light he is guessing under 7lbs. He said that it had decent triggers. It has a 11mm scope rail seems to be well made. He going back and look at it some more tomorrow. Well up date if I learn more.

416SW I'm sure Raytrade will come to the party one day.I'm going to try my daer friends at Gold coast gun supplies

DOK
I will ask Pro-Cal Wednesday if I remember, we should get PC to enquire through whoever he buys and then Raytrade will have enquiries from 3 different dealers.

This topic is running on the african forum as well where they are talking about the possibility of rechambering the 45-70 to a nitro express size case.
I'm still not sure if they are playing around or not since I know nothing about this action type.
Jeffeosso what do you reckon mate? BS or possibility?

Karl.

Karl,
g'day...

the thing weighs in at 7.5... that's a tad light for even me for more than 405's at 1800...

with tungsten powder and mercury, you could get it to 9... MAYBE

I am thinking, as I sit here, sight unseen, that 45/90 or 45-rcbs (2.75 case) will be a better choice..

BUT, I am calling remington in the morning to get an order in...

heh.. but, why, if the 45/70 is good enough for buff, would you need more?

I want to get my mits on one... even if it tops out at 1700 with 405s or barnes X 350s, it'll be a MONSTER in northamerica... and, frankly, fill in the dreams of lots of americans

i think it would be THE THING for pigs, grassys, roo's, scrubbulls, and maybe even a buff in oz.


quickload, at 35,000 psi (around 28.5k cup I THINK)

barnes X 350
barnes X 450
tops out at
45/70
1871
1380

45/90
1985
1692

45/rcbs
2255
1935

The RCBS can be loaded more... and it's just a VERY long 45/70 case.

jeffe

Interesting jeffe.That 45 RCBS then would seem to be able to handle itself.

Let me know what remington say about anything relating to these, if at all.

I was wondering, recoil aside(as foolish as it sounds) what about going further to a 45 basic up to 3", or even stuffing the 450nitro reamer into it.

Whether one could get the hallowed "2000fps with a .341 SD bullet" like the 458 win?

Or whether this would break several laws of gunsmithing on these actions simultaenously.

I can't even picture clearly a double rifle action in my head by the way.

Karl.

This rifle is built on Baikal SxS shotgun action.

I would like to get my hands on one myself. I think that it will work just fine as a 45-70 with 400-405gr @ 1500-1650 fps. At least that is what I think my limit will be with this flyweight SxS. I wish it weighed 10.5 - 11lbs. Then it would be a no brainer recoil wise for turning it into a 450NE.

Jeffe, let us know what Rem. has to say about when they can be ordered.

Hog Killer

Jeff & Karl
I had my 1886el loaded to 1925fps with Rem 405grns the rifle wieghed 7 1/2lb
Rifle is now away to become a 50-110.
Karl look at the ADI loads.
I was thinking if I bought a 45/70 double a rechamber to 45/90 or 45/100 would be the go.

Its going to be a long time yet. My brother talking with the Remington rep at the shot show. They said they only had the one rifle and they got that one just two days before the show.

Sounds like lots of BS for them to go through yet before any amount of them come into the states.

The distributor in my area won't take orders for them yet. I might get one, as well as one of the 12gauge 30-06 combo guns just for fun.

I think jeffeoso has the right idea. If this thing eventuates here in OZ then it'll be a great gun as is in 45/70. A hardcast 400gr FNGC at 1650fps isn't going to bounce of anything. If it'll hold 4MOA over open sights then I'll pick one up as a Sambar plaything, novelty gun, just imagine... you could play with cast and jacketed projectiles, smokeless and blackpowder. Way too much fun
Cheers...
Con

Mike I have one of the Bakails combos in 12 over 7x57R works well. I brought the higher grade it was well worth the extra money.

Slugs and the rifle barrel shoot to the same point of aim out to 40 yards. The rifle barrel will put the first two in under a inch at 100 starts to wander as she heats up.

FYI Garrett cartridges loads some pretty hefty 45-70 rounds with a 540 hard cast flatnose hammerhead. check out the site @ garrettcartridges.com. There is even an article how a guy with a marlin 1895 lever action killed buffalo, elephant, rhino, hippo, and some others that I cannot remember off the top of my head. If I do get one of those SxS in 45-70 for Christmas, I will be purchasing those rounds.

Anyone know what pressure these things are rated at? I see they have the '06....
Wonder how high you could safely run the 45 RCBS with it's larger biltface.

I think Vapodog estimated off the 30-06 at 60 KSI, a 470 could go 40 Ksi.
So higher for the RCBS I guess.

Karl.

Well, speaking strictly of backthrust, the 45 RCBS at 50k would match the 30-06 at 60k. I wager a 3 1/4" 45/70 case at 50k would beat a 470 NE at 40k. We might have us a winner for Miss All-American Mastedon Chambering 2005.

I cant wait to see one of these babies in person would love have it bear huntinmg in the brush in western washington..

I have to have one................I need it

I certainly wouldn't buy one with the idea that it might be "souped up" or rechambered to another cartridge.....The information coming out right now is very cloudy but it's reported the 45/70 barrels are stamped for 33,000 PSI Max.....If this is true we'll almost assuradedly be using factory loads and factory dupicating reloads.

There's a lot of talk about this new offering but don't get the hopes up too high as there's a lot to learn about it. Right now it's looking very iffy to me that this is a true gunsmith item for reworking.....rather use it "as is" and on with the show.

vapodog,
dave pedersolli says 28k on the kodiaks..

that are rechamered to 450 ne#2

sure wouldn't suggest you do anythign unsafe!

jeffe

I was just at the SHOT show and actually had one in my hands. The rep assured me they would be avaliable this August. The down side was they only say they can be used with Original 45-70 ballistics and not the higher pressure Buffalo Bore stuff. They also make them in 30-06 so maybe there is some leeway room.

458Win,
Ya, I had contacted EAA sometime back with the same question, and they stated exactaly the same thing. Only 45/70 pressure loads. They wouldn't even state which level of 45/70 loads. I'm sure it's lawyer talk as the 06 has a much higher pressure level then the 45/70.
If they are built on the same frame as the new Remington, Spartan, SXS, they are visually heavy duty. I checked one of the Spartan's out a couple of weeks ago, and it would make a nice truck gun.

Roger QSL