Below is the text of a message I sent to Remington and their response. How in the world can a company the size of Remington say they "hope" to have them available over a 4 to 6 month period. Statements like that usually get project managers fired.

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Discussion Thread
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Response (Chris) - 08/08/2005 04:17 PM
Dear Mr. Shaffer,

Thank you for your interest in Remington firearms. The Spartan rifles have not been distributed at this time. We hope to begin distributing them later this Fall or by early Winter to Remington Wholesalers.

Customer (art shaffer) - 08/04/2005 09:56 AM
Are the Spartan Double Rifles ever going to be available? There has been tremendous interest in the 45/70 version on the internet bulletin boards concerned with heavy rifles and large animal hunting. It appeared early on that there was a large potential market for this rifle. However, interest seems to have fallen off and the attitude of most people is that they may never come to market. This is causing a lot of negative publicity for Remington. I personally have had my dealer on a waiting list for a couple of months with no word from any of the distributors as to when the gun may be available.


Question Reference #050804-000010

'Cats' claims to have one on the African Forum. Maybe you can buy his?

I've spoken to remington several times on this (and to eaa, for what it's worth)

per remington
there are a FEW in the hands of distributors/special stores, high profile clients, etc..

baikal did the same...

not being distributed means "not a shipping catalog item"..

yeah, i tried to find one of those few.. might have a line on one, and I would do a thorough review on it.

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by Mickey1:
'Cats' claims to have one on the African Forum. Maybe you can buy his?

***Cats not only "claims" to have one, HE HAS 2. One SPR22 in 30-06 the other in 45-70. I had mine ordered and paid for for several months when the '06 came in with a batch of shotguns the dealers called and I took the '06 thinking it better than none. Not long after he called an said he got a 45-70 out of the blue asked if I wanted to swap...I bought it outright.
Mickey1 had it not been for accusations such as yours a lucky AR member could have won it in a raffle as I had offered to donate it to AR with the proceeds going towards a DG hunt to be raffled....Mickey1 what did you offer???????????????????????

it seems typical of firearms companies to bring something out on paper, have the scribes brag it up and then wait for 6 months to a year to make any. I'm not sure why, maybe to develop enough orders, but it seems to happen all the time (like the ruger gold label for instance)

Cats: A report, puh-LEEZE!
AS to the delay, I think part of it is that EAA carried the mail for Baikal in the U.S. for several years and then I am guessing Remington made Baikal a better offer and jerked the franchise out from under EAA. I will bet this delayed matters, and that Remington Spartan also re-speced the product line, which surely would mean further delays as the Russians had to jump through Remington's set of hoops.
I am just guessing, but would bet this is at least part of the story behind the double rifles' delay.

The walnut on both rifles is lighter than I prefer but not the sickly Remington norm.
The wood/metal fit is better than I expected out of a rifle under $1000 (much under) but on par with a normal run of guns straight from the mass production ranks.
I have not fired the 45-70. But I have shot over 150 rounds thru the 30-06 which is a bunch when you stop to think it is a Dbl gun. The jack screw alignment system was new to me. To be totally truthful it was a bitch to sightin. I am used to sighting in scopes with less than 4 shots as an average after bore sighting them with my laser. This SPR22 '06 took me 24 shots,partly because I wasn't moving the jack screw enough and partly because i was doing my intital shots at 25 yds...duh. I backed up to 50 yds and shortly brought them together but not 1 holed
The overall opinion I have is like all Russian made firearms...the size could have been reduced as well as weight. Quality of lockup is superb though! Accuracy is on a level with every DBL gun I've ever shot, decent but not to be considered a bench shooter.
A scope rail came with both rifles and I am thinking of mounting a 2.5X Heavy Duplex Leoupold 20mm on the '06. cats

I bet Jeffesso will test the 45-70 for you if your too busy.

Yeppers!!
I would be more than happy to do that eval!

jeffe

I am sure that there would be a full "Band of Bubbas" shoot and evaluation of said 45-70, if it got down here for us to check out.

Hog Killer

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:
I am sure that there would be a full "Band of Bubbas" shoot and evaluation of said 45-70, if it got down here for us to check out.

Hog Killer

It'd probably be shot off the face before he got it back!

"..before he got it back?"

Nah, I offered to buy it...

just because most of us are southern don't mean we are dumb!!! I am the youngest in reloading of the bunch... and about middle of the road in safety.. which means book max is WAY max

jeffe

These techniques are apparently what they teach in schools for MBAs !When they started to make the rolling block again I saw it in the catalog and I was interested .When Ichecked it out [6 months after the catalog came out] it turned out to be a custom shop gun which eventually would become a rate of a few per week.I went elsewhere .....And then there was Rugers 308 version of the Mini-14 advertised but it was never made !!

Jeff has made a more than fair offer on the 45-70. My problem is with a very few posters here on AR jeff not you, I hope you did not take my replies to heart.
Some of you may well have read a few of my posts on the African Hunting forum (Well OK maybe more than a few) where I have gone toe to toe with a handful of major league asswipes.
I will not shoot the 45-70 until I see what happens with production. If it is canceled I want a 100% rifle to market.cats

quote:

Originally posted by cats:
Jeff has made a more than fair offer on the 45-70. My problem is with a very few posters here on AR jeff not you, I hope you did not take my replies to heart.
Some of you may well have read a few of my posts on the African Hunting forum (Well OK maybe more than a few) where I have gone toe to toe with a handful of major league asswipes.
I will not shoot the 45-70 until I see what happens with production. If it is canceled I want a 100% rifle to market.cats

Cat's,

I find it hard to understand why one would sit on the 45-70 regardless of the intenet or not unless you just don't have the time or don't see an application for the rifle.

It would be interesting though to hear from you on it........

[:

quote:

I will not shoot the 45-70 until I see what happens with production. If it is canceled I want a 100% rifle to market.cats

Cat's,

I find it hard to understand why one would sit on the 45-70 regardless of the intenet or not unless you just don't have the time or don't see an application for the rifle.

It would be interesting though to hear from you on it........[/QUOTE]

Savage what part of that don't you understand? If Rem/Spartan does drop production of the SPR22 with only the few that were issued with stamps from Baikal & Spartan Gun Works on them the $575 I paid or the offer from Jeff will eventually be surpassed quite handily.

Cats,
my offer stands. you have it in email.

surpased? I doubt that, as the remingtons will be available before christmas

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
the remingtons will be available before christmas

Uh-huh! Remember, this is Big Greed we're talking about. Personally, I think cats has a collector's item in his safe and I think he's playing his cards right.

Sarge,
you might be right... then again, big greed has websites saying it's coming...

hmm, corporate failure vs anticipation?

Winchester, you listening?!?!?!

Cats,

If they do hit the market...........you get to compete against Wal-Mart.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Sarge,
you might be right... then again, big greed has websites saying it's coming...

hmm, corporate failure vs anticipation?

Winchester, you listening?!?!?!

Don't hold your breath Jeffe. Neither you nor anyone wlse will ever see that rifle. I wouldn't send any money up front either.

quote:

Savage what part of that don't you understand? If Rem/Spartan does drop production of the SPR22 with only the few that were issued with stamps from Baikal & Spartan Gun Works on them the $575 I paid or the offer from Jeff will eventually be surpassed quite handily.

Ok fine it's your gun. It's just that if it were mine I could not wait to try it.

As to it's future value I just can't see how it will be worth all that much one way or another.

Come on, shoot it and send us some pictures. You can email them to me and I will post them for you.

quote:

Originally posted by Mickey1:
'Cats' claims to have one on the African Forum. Maybe you can buy his?

Funny how Carmelo receives magazine in the mail before they have been published, and Cats purchases rifles before they are offered for sale to the public.

Cats: I don't blame you for sitting on the .45-70 until you see how the production run shakes out. But how about a couple of photos? Also, can you explain a bit more about that jackscrew? I've heard of these on Valmets and on M-D passenger jets. How's the Baikal setup work?

Bill: As you must know by now from my past posting on the matter of pictures how I feel about that subject. Those that wish to dispute will do so with even a picture.
Old Sarge said it best a few posts back, I'll play the cards I've been dealt. Should Spartan flood the market with SPR22s what I have left is a Dbl rifle I wanted to begin with....nothing ventured nothing gained.

500gr I'm surprized your hands are free to type....OH YES! I forgot you gave that Afro Heat rag to the trackers....better check between the mattresses you may have another stashed there where mommy won't find it!

Cats,
just to clarify my offer...

I offered you $XXX for the baikal.. You told me you wont be selling to an AR member. I won't be changing my AR status, so if you change your mind...

if you do the offer stands until the first second I confirm that big greed will be having them in country..
after that, my offer becomes dealer cost on the remmy, therefore little greed loses out.

but you refused to sell to an AR member, and are now stating the offer will be surpassed.

Great, just tell us all that you aren't selling to an AR member....

Your views on posting pics, well, are quaint, especially for a new chum who gets upset of people are not fully convinced that a person owns what he CLAIMS.

we had a long term troll that would claim to own every thing from a fully auto BAR to a 500 ahr... and had pics.. but obviously "stolen" pics.

so, take a quick pic, with a recent newspaper front page for background, and we'll all know

won't matter, as you won't post pics, wont sell to an ar member, and wont shoot it...

oh well.. do or don't..

Billy...
"compeating with walmart".. LMAO

jeff I don't know why you would make a post such as that other than trying to engage in some sort of argument like you have with another AR member on the African forums over his 45-70 loads that look as though they have been confirmed by several other posters.
Could it be sour grapes...must be as I replied to your PMs...all 6 of them over 3 days...trying to get me to sell you this rifle for $700.
I replied to you why I would not sell to you or any AR member for that matter, twice in a professional manner, yet you make a post like your last for what reason? To try an discredit??? I live on LI take a drive up north if you wish to see the gun for yourself.
Posting pics is a matter of principle with me, you question my honor/I won't do it for anything then.For the record I do not download pics sent to me either due to viruses out in cyber space.

Cats,
I don't see anything in the least arguementative in my previous post. Sorry you feel that way.

128.4% return on what you paid for the rifle seems fair, and you didn't counter, rather told me you aren't going to sell to an ar member, unless "ar cleans up it's posters and postings" or words to that effect. I merely pointed out that your posts are taking the exact tone you complained about.

Sell it, keep it, shoot it, auction it off on gunbroker, or even post a picture.. it's all your call.

your call..
jeffe

Vaporware.

Art: Sorry your thread ended up in the men's-room urinal.
Thanks for letting us know what Remington is thinking about the Spartan double rifles.

That's OK. I've come to find that any thread that contains the numbers 5,7,0 and 4 in any order will self destruct. After the last few days, I believe that if there were a moratorium on the words 45/70, PF, 700 and Ruger, the message board would be abandoned.

Well, I am still looking foreward to the Spartan 45-70 Gov't getting here. I really want a SxS and right now this is about as close as I will get to one. Unless one of my SxS shotguns gets some new NE barrels.

Hog Killer