Just a quick pop-quiz to see if we can attempt to answer the question of which one is the most often found in a gun safe....

Question:
Do you own one or more 500 A-Squares?

Choices:
Yes
No

Question:
Do you own one or more 505 Gibbs?

Choices:
Yes
No

Question:
Do you own one or more 500 Jeffery's?

Choices:
Yes
No

Question:
If I HAD to pick, my favorite of the three is...

Choices:
500 A2
505 Gibbs
500 Jeffery

 

I would think the vote should be/have been with your pocketbook...which did you buy?

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Chris,

Actually my favorite would be the 500 AHR or similar 500 Jeffery Improved.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I would think the vote should be/have been with your pocketbook...which did you buy?

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Always a critic, eh? Seriously though, I don't quite follow. Other than an inheritance, I guess, I assume they bought them in order to own them. I don't think your nuance would change the results much.

Maybe we need a poll about that too.

Cheers,
Canuck

quote:

Originally posted by ScottS:
Chris,

Actually my favorite would be the 500 AHR or similar 500 Jeffery Improved.

I thought of adding the 500 AHR, but figured it would just detract from the intent...which was answering the question that some fellas were willing to bet on, on another thread. That, and I was curious...I have no clue which you'd find more of out of these three.

Cheers,
Canuck

Pretty darn close race so far. 18 votes, 6 A2s, 7 505s and 5 jeffe's.

I expected to see more "multiples" (ie. owning more than one of the three). But I do see a small flaw in my questions....one could answer "NO" to all of the top three questions and still pick a favorite (even though they don't own any of them)...which would also counter anyone that had picked "yes" to more than one of the top three questions. Not that this really matters...the most interesting point is to find out which cartridge is the most prevalent amongst the membership here at least (which may or may not be a representative sampe of big bore enthusiasts!!). The question about which one is the respondents favorite was more for fun.

Cheers,
Canuck

You really ought to just call it the .510/460Wby instead of the 500 A-Square.

500 Buhmiller
500 Weatherby
.510 Wells
500 A-Square
495 A-Square
.510/460 Weatherby Improved Jenkins and Berry
50 Peacekeeper
And More ...

Those owning more than one "fifty" are obviously happiest with their 500 A-Square or equivalent.

However, I am disappointed that you did not include the 500 Mbogo in the poll.

quote:

However, I am disappointed that you did not include the 500 Mbogo in the poll.

It was a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. "Ignore" it, or draw attention to the fact that no-one owns one. YET, that is!! No-one owns one YET! Next year will re-do the poll and I'll be sure to include it.

I had the same dilemma with the 500 AR.

Cheers,
Canuck

Jenkins is at work on the 500 Mbogo. Next week is next year.
Stuart Satterlee eat your heart out ... and finish that action (ordered in 2006) sometime in 2008, please.

I have a 500 jeffe, and forgot i have a 510wells barrel in the works and I do have the 500 AR, (neither fish nor fowl for purposes of this discussion)..

so, 3 .510s,

and 2 more .510 barrels waiting for me to decide what to do with them

RIP, how do you like your .495 A-Square?

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
RIP, how do you like your .495 A-Square?

Dave

The listing above is just a chronological partial listing of .510 caliber rifles based on the 460Wby.
I do not own a .495 A-Square, but it would be my preference over the .505 Empire offering, which is a .495 A-Square necked down to .505.
My 50's:

500 A-Square
.510/460Wby I JAB
.505 Gibbs
50 BMG
500 Mbogo (any day now)

I have resisted the urge of the 500 Jeffery but have some 500 Jeffery dies I use to neck size and crimp the 500 Mbogo 3".

.........I had one and I,ll have another 500 A-Sq ......But built my way this time ....The other one thats interesting is the 500 AR

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
....The other one thats interesting is the 500 AR

Gum, having shot jeffe's 500AR, it is a neat package in a standard length aciton. It will beat the 500NE with ease. It is not a stunt gun, ie: recovery time is good. 600gr @ 2400fps is getting into stunt league stuff. Yes, I have shot this level in the past and will do so again. But they are more "thrill ride", than practical for quick follow up shots.

Keith

ps: the 500AR will be a more affordable build, by using a std size action.

....I like the 77mk2 Ruger better than any other action I,ve used ... Followed very closely by the CZ 550 Safari Magnum action ....To put a .510 cal rifle in that action would be great ....But I have too many building projects at the moment and the A-Sq. is a definite..on a cz action ...

I don't understand statistics. It seems that 23 people have voted, of which 6 own a 500 A2. How can 11 voters say that the 500 A2 is their favorite of the three? Also, 6 voters say they own a 500 A2, 7 say they own a 505 Gibbs and 6 say they own a 500 Jeffery. Assuming none of them own more than of the calibers, that still only makes 19 maximum who own one or more of these rifles. But there are 23 voters?

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:
..It will beat the 500NE with ease. It is not a stunt gun, ie: recovery time is good. 600gr @ 2400fps is getting into stunt league stuff. .Keith

ps: the 500AR will be a more affordable build, by using a std size action.

Remember, designed the 500ar to be 2350 with 535s, and 2200 with either 600gr or 570gr, for several reasons, mostly recoil/recover, suggested impacts max speeds for woodliegh bullets, and extended brass life... but it will easily do 100 to 150 fps more than that, but then recoil becomes an issue!!!

it really is a neato .510
jeff

I felt obliged to vote for the Jeffery, simply because it is the one I own at the moment and so far I am happy with it. I had a CZ in the Gibbs for a while which I enjoyed but ended up selling to fund the Jeffery.

The nostalgia factor aside, I do think that the A-Square would be the easiest and most practical, but all three are wonderful and I wouldn't turn my nose up at any of them.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I would think the vote should be/have been with your pocketbook...which did you buy?

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Well, You did ask... RIch, I have a bbk02 action, sitting in a box, that i haven't used, and i had built it to build either a 470mbogo or a 505gibbs.. and I can build anything I like... I am still shooting the 500 jeffe and the 500ar on a regular basis, though

quote:

Originally posted by DGR Shooter:
I had a CZ in the Gibbs for a while which I enjoyed but ended up selling to fund the Jeffery.

and when I did the group buy of hundreds and hundreds of 500 or 505 brassw (offered both) it was just about split down the middle for cases..

BUT -- and here's the kicker... only about 1/3 of the gibbs cases were bound for .505 bores.. most of the rest went to .510/505 gibbs... which is a WILDCAT

jeffe

My comment was to point out the two possibilities this poll offered: a beauty contest VS working man's choice.
There is a tremendous gap between "what is your favorite/choice" and "which one do you own".
F'r instance: Would you rather have:
1. A new Ferrari Enzo
or
2. A new Dodge Diesel Longbox, four door pickup truck.

Everyone will go for the Enzo, until they find out it won't pull a four horse trailer or a 30-foot 5th wheel.

What did you buy, what do you own...?

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:
I don't understand statistics. It seems that 23 people have voted, of which 6 own a 500 A2. How can 11 voters say that the 500 A2 is their favorite of the three? Also, 6 voters say they own a 500 A2, 7 say they own a 505 Gibbs and 6 say they own a 500 Jeffery. Assuming none of them own more than of the calibers, that still only makes 19 maximum who own one or more of these rifles. But there are 23 voters?

---------------------------------I,m guilty on that charge , as at this moment I do not own a 500A2 ....However I did and will ...So I voted ....Sorry if I skewed statistics ...

.... i drive a dodge pickemup... LOL

and should be receiving 7 sets of 500 AR dies in the next couple weeks!

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
My comment was to point out the two possibilities this poll offered: a beauty contest VS working man's choice.
There is a tremendous gap between "what is your favorite/choice" and "which one do you own".
F'r instance: Would you rather have:
1. A new Ferrari Enzo
or
2. A new Dodge Diesel Longbox, four door pickup truck.

Everyone will go for the Enzo, until they find out it won't pull a four horse trailer or a 30-foot 5th wheel.

What did you buy, what do you own...?

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Idaho...I am still not sure what you mean? The first three questions say "Do you own one or more...". The idea being that the respondent made a choice and put thier money down to get one.

Assuming that at least a few here own more than one of those cartridges, the last question (which is your favorite) was supposed to capture which one was most liked by those that have owned them. I realized that people would likely vote for the only one they had if they only had one, but figured one could tease that out of the stats. I overlooked the fact that people that have never owned any of them and voted "no" to the top three questions, could still pick a favorite and that would make it difficult to tease out the experienced opinion.

Your Enzo/Dodge truck analogy doesn't seem to fit here at all. None of those three cartridge choices are that different than the other. I highly doubt that someone owns one of them but covets another. If you can afford one, you can afford any of them.

Cheers,
Canuck

At least one of those who own both a .505 Gibbs and a 500 A2 has picked the 500 A2 as favorite.

Rich,
How many 500 jeffe or 500A2s have you had to select your fav from?

That would be me. I have all of them. The 500a2 is far and away my favorite. But you knew that.-Rob

Jeffe,

remember me and the 510KX from last summer? Same-same for all practical intents and purposes as the A2. Did I tell you I could drop a 500 A2 inside a cylindrical 505 Gibbs, like the 577BME?
But, the 500 A2 has to be a better 50-caliber cartridge because it's smaller than the 505 Gibbs, right? About .150" shorter, that'll help. Shorter action and bolt throw, eh?

BTW: I am still waiting for a valid excuse for shooting a higher pressure cartridge to get the same results...? It is interesting to see all the lame comebacks on that issue.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

500A2 = Billy Bobification of a proper Weatherby Invention with no significant improvement in performance.

505 Gibbs = The real deal! A cart. with provenance and PLENTY of performance if you know how to load/shoot it!!

Shooting the 505 at period nominal loads for comparison to the 500A2 O.O.B. (out of business) especial is like comparing 19th century 45-70 loads to modern ones!!!

PLEEEEEASE!!! The 500A2 is like everything else A2!! A bastardization of someone elses work!!!

A2 Actions? - Leftover 100 year old obsolete Enfield stuff from when soldiers were 5'-4" tall!!!

A2 Cartridges? - Someone elses design with a home brewers tweak. The ones they made themselves were crap as anyone here will tell you. A2 Brass = Crap! A2 Bullets = Crap!

Can we get a real thread here please cause this stuff is Romper Room Material!!!

At least the 600 OK is an original!!

That is why I had a reamer made with 30-degree shoulder instead of 35-degree and called it the .510 JAB. Now that is perfection!!!

OH! Yeah!!!!

Well I'm going to invent the new Jeffe-Gun-Rob-Idaho-RIP-builder 505-510 taper-bullet DVR shed built express!!

It will make the other 293 1/2 fifty caliber sissy guns obsolete on it's first outing!!!

quote:

Well I'm going to invent the new Jeffe-Gun-Rob-Idaho-RIP-builder 505-510 taper-bullet DVR shed built express!!

Can the barrel be a reverse-double-gain twister??

A simple gain twist could be a nice compromise. Starting at 15" for those worried about pressure and increasing to 10" for maximum stabilization...

Cheers,
Canuck

Sure! Anything you wan't Boss!!

I usually employ the Canadian Military Twist in high velocity jobs!!

(It starts at the breech as a 100:1 RH twist and ends at the muzzle with a 10:1 LH twist!! )

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck:

A simple gain twist could be a nice compromise. Starting at 15" for those worried about pressure and increasing to 10" for maximum stabilization...

Cheers,
Canuck

Why didn't I think of that?!

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I am still waiting for a valid excuse for shooting a higher pressure cartridge to get the same results...? It is interesting to see all the lame comebacks on that issue.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Rich
Man, you asked the question.. remember, we are buddies, discussing our favorite color, or ginger vs marieanne... and, well, we are both naturally gifted at being smart asses, and we've made it a study as well

but you asked

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
There are two ways to make 7500+ft lbs of ME, a big case or a lot of pressure. The Gibbs factory loads are in the 45,000Psi range. {sic: which is 525gr at 2350} I have loaded one case sixteen times with a cast load: 650gr GC flat-roundnose at just over 2400fps and the primer pocket is still tight. Extraction is still a one finger bolt lift. I got Macifej's 558gr solids to just over 2500fpt under similiar conditions. How much more power than that can you use?

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

You tell me, what is the pressure of those loads?

If we are talking Apples to apples
525 OR 535 gr at 2350 ...

the jeffery CIP pressure is 46Kpsi, and the gibbs is 40K psi...and the 500 AR can get at 50K psi... all of which is about 32k cup, 39K cup, and 43K cup...

ALL ARE LOWER PRESSURE THAN THE 375 HH, 55K cup., or about 62K psi ... and ifin ya load the 375 ruger to 2500 fps, its LOWER PRESSURE than the HH as the case actually IS larger, and there's no replacement for displacement....

I don't think pressure is the problem, or even bolt thrust (which, at 55kpsi in a gibbs, is huge) rather preference.
jeffe

I agree jeffe. My point above was basically "who really cares if the pressure is less, if all the cartridges are performing within safe limits". The 500 A2 gets 2450 to 2500 fps within very safe limits and long brass life....I don't see any practical pressure advantage to the 505 Gibbs.

Cheers,
Canuck

So, now we are at a point where significantly lower pressures at the same velocity or significantly higher velocities at the same presssure as a smaller case are (for the purposes of this discussion) no longer germane to the issue of choice?

So then, the only major advantage left to the Gibbs is the fact that it is a factory chambering and has factory loaded ammunition available for it at the store...? Or is that also no longer a valid comparison factor either?

You guys probably believe that a good little man can beat a good big man.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Rich, it boils down to preference, ONLY,

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
So, now we are at a point where significantly lower pressures at the same velocity or significantly higher velocities at the same presssure as a smaller case are (for the purposes of this discussion) no longer germane to the issue of choice?

So, now the 375 ruger is a better round than the 375 hh?

quote:

So then, the only major advantage left to the Gibbs is the fact that it is a factory chambering and has factory loaded ammunition available for it at the store...? Or is that also no longer a valid comparison factor either?

i have seen more boxes of 375 ruger THIS YEAR and at 1/2 the price, than I have seen of hh in 10. And exactly the same number of 505 vs 500 anything... and all are factory loadings, and the 500a2 is loaded by the same people that load the 505 gibbs..

quote:

You guys probably believe that a good little man can beat a good big man.

my martial arts instucture was 5'2, I was 20, 6'4 and 200# .. he beat me like a rug

quote:

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Rich, I think Jeff makes a lot good points.

Some of these rounds are indeed higher pressure rounds than the .505 but none of them can really be considered as "high" pressure. It all boils down to a matter of personal preference. The Gibbs is great but it requires a really big action for best results. The Jeffery works better in a CZ I think but then there is the rebated rim that everyone seems to worry about. The .500 A-Square makes for the easiest conversion and is probably the best of the three but, even though I have the Jeffery, if I could be assured of a ready supply of good brass, I would pick the .500 AHR.

Dave

quote:

You guys probably believe that a good little man can beat a good big man.

That is a silly analogy. You are anthropomorphizing a cartridge choice.

If the pressures are well within safe limits, and brass life is basically the same as a result, what the heck is the difference? ie. For what practical purpose is the lower pressure actually better?

Of course I put lower pressure in the "Pro" column, but it doesn't carry a heckuva pile of weight with it unless the competing cartridge has to go into marginal or unsafe pressures in order to match the desired performance.

Cheers,
Canuck

I guess we all vote with our pocketbooks, and that is as it should be.

I just got back from shooting the Gibbs with the 558gr solids behind 150gr of N160...there's something to be said for seeing the chronograph rocket to 2600+fps. And, I can always download to the other's ME levels. I still do not understand, for CZ owners anyway; why one would choose the other rounds over the Gibbs. The rifles cannot be told apart if you tape over the chambering stamped on the barrel. The 505 Gibbs, you see, simply has Panache.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...