I hesitate between the .416 and .450 Rigby for DG ?
Which is the better?

better?
that's choice...

looking for a wicked hunting rifle, that will allow 200 yard shots?

HAVE to have a scope?

then the 416

want one that will make a 200 yard shot, if YOU practice with your load?

that IS a stopping rifle....


and can shoot dirt cheap bullets?

450

brass and dies will be a wash for cost, for practice loads,

jeffe

I would prefer the 458 Rigby
I like the bigger bore for DG, and practice/deer pig bullets are much cheaper for the 458 bore as jeffe has stated.
For 200 yard shots look at 400 to 450 gr premium bullets such as the Swift, Trophybonded, or Barnes X [ie pointed] and you will see the 458 Rigby can do anything the 416 Rigby can do.

For a while my .450 was for sale as I had purchased a .404 and its ballistics can duplicate the .416. Then I shot a buffalo, killed it but was charged anyway! Sooo . . . I think I'll use the .404 as my 'African medium' from now on and restock the .450 longer and straighter. It isn't for sale anymore as the day may come when I go buff hunting again and have decided that the need to wear both a belt and suspenders dictates the use of the .450. "These things numb buffalo!" - Boddington.

Oldsarge, you didn't mean to say the 404 can duplicate the 416 Rigby ballistically did you?

quote:

Originally posted by Alain:
I hesitate between the .416 and .450 Rigby for DG ?
Which is the better?

An EXCELLENT ARTICLE comparing the Big Bores written by a compatriot here. Read it before you make your decision. I like the "Penetration in Plywood" test!

quote:

Originally posted by JoeR:
Oldsarge, you didn't mean to say the 404 can duplicate the 416 Rigby ballistically did you?

NOT WITH MODERN POWDERS!!!

Given that the .416 case has the same capacity as the biggest Weatherby, it obvious that no .404 can be loaded as hot as the .416 at its greatest pressure. What I meant is that a .404 can be loaded to equal the factory loading of the .416 Rigby/Remington. That isn't subject to discussion. My chronograph says so. The Woodleigh that I spitted the buff with was going over 2400 fps when it left the barrel and the physical evidence (blood gushing from mouth and nostrals) clearly showed that the old bull was dead. He just wouldn't lie down! Greater frontal area makes a big difference. The first one I shot, with the .450, sat down and fell over. Much more satisfying. What's the difference? The .416 Rigby is a good Class II DG cartridge. The .450 is a Class III!

I would want both......................I think with 340 gr bullets the .416 is a versatile gun and the .450 Rigby is just more of a good thing, I own a .458 lott but really should have spent the extra on cases and dies and gotton z .450 Rigby in hindsite. Baffles me why Ruger did not pick up the .450 Rigby over the .458 Lott especially since they had the action for it and are also making the .416 Rigby.

I have both, well my 450 is a Dakota, but same thing as the Rigby. For general hunting of buffalo, lion and such I think the 416 will serve you very well. It doesn't punish you nearly as bad as the 450, which makes good shooting much easier. The 450 has more of everything, but when loaded to spec it isn't a pleasant rifle to shoot. IF you can tolerate the recoil it is a better hammer.

quote:

Originally posted by PC:
Baffles me why Ruger did not pick up the .450 Rigby over the .458 Lott especially since they had the action for it and are also making the .416 Rigby.

Sturm,Ruger, & Co. has always had a logic in what it chooses to produce, which I can not easily follow.

I've always wondered why they didn't make a limited production three or four year "African Series" in the No. 1...where the first year they produced the .450/400 3", the scond year the .450 Rigby 3-1/4", and the third year the .500 3". If they wanted a 4th year, a .577 3" would pretty well top things off. Rifles of the first couple of years could weigh about 9 to 9-1/4 pounds without the scope, while rifles of the last two years could weigh 10-1/2 to 11 pounds, again without scope. That would moderate the recoil and still leave the rifles fairly easy to carry/handle. (And, no, I would never want a scope on the .500 or .577, and likely not on the .450...but it would be danged handy to be able to use the Ruger mounts for one IF a person did want one.

Another practical alternative series could be a .375 H&H Flanged, a .450/.400. a .450 Rigby, and a .500 Nitro Express.

The guns could be sold by subscription, with their own serial number range...the buyers receiving the option to buy the next year('s) rifle(s) with the same serial number as part of their "subscription". (For example, serial #1,002-.400, serial #1,002-.450, etc.)

I know I'd sure buy the whole series....

quote:

Originally posted by PC:
...Baffles me why Ruger did not pick up the .450 Rigby over the .458 Lott especially since they had the action for it and are also making the .416 Rigby.

PC,
the rigby is actually barely over 10 years old, as a saami round rather than wildcat. Expensive brass, custom dies, and no one was clamoring for one.

So, the lott, which already had a pretty steady wildcatter following, backed by Lott, Ackely, Watts, and others.
jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by PC:
...Baffles me why Ruger did not pick up the .450 Rigby over the .458 Lott especially since they had the action for it and are also making the .416 Rigby.

PC,
the rigby is actually barely over 10 years old, as a saami round rather than wildcat. Expensive brass, custom dies, and no one was clamoring for one.

So, the lott, which already had a pretty steady wildcatter following, backed by Lott, Ackely, Watts, and others.
jeffe

I'd definitely clamor for one to compliment my RSM in .416!!! By the way it is looking, my next big bore may be a .460 Weatherby, and I loathe BELTS on cases.

Young Grasshoppers must remember that the .460 Weatherby belt is not so bad as the rebated rim that comes with it.

This Gray-Haired Grasshopper chooses .450 Dakota and .458 Lapua-Simba ... oops, .458 Nyati or .423 Simba ...

And .416 Rigby ...
And .458 Lott ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Young Grasshoppers must remember that the .460 Weatherby belt is not so bad as the rebated rim that comes with it.

This Gray-Haired Grasshopper chooses .450 Dakota and .458 Lapua-Simba ...

And .416 Rigby ...
And .458 Lott ...

Yes, most perceptive master. I stand humbled by your experience! I must graduate to a larger caliber. I hear a stainless No.1 in .458 Lott beckoning my name.

A stainless Ruger No.1 in .458 Lott is very easy to rechamber to ".450 Rigby 3-1/4" Nitro-Express Thin Rim" just for Kicks. Any smith worth his salt can do that.

I could put Quigley's Sharps to shame with mine, and no paper patched bullets required.

Of course a stainles-laminate .450 NE single shot really deserves a laser sight.

quote:

Posted 18 December 2005 01:40
Given that the .416 case has the same capacity as the biggest Weatherby, it obvious that no .404 can be loaded as hot as the .416 at its greatest pressure. What I meant is that a .404 can be loaded to equal the factory loading of the .416 Rigby/Remington. That isn't subject to discussion. My chronograph says so. The Woodleigh that I spitted the buff with was
going over 2400 fps when it left the barrel and the physical evidence (blood gushing from mouth and nostrals) clearly showed that the old bull was dead. He just wouldn't lie down! Greater frontal area makes a big difference. The first one I shot, with the .450, sat down and fell over. Much more satisfying. What's the difference? The .416 Rigby is a good Class II DG cartridge. The .450 is a Class III!

Sarge

One game animal each does not make or break a round. There are way to many factors in each shot to use just one animal each as a test if one round is better then the other.

To many shooter use a very limited amount of kills to rate a round or caliber.

My guess would be that if one could shoot50 to 100 animals in the same spot at the same distance with each ,one might be able to say one round is better then the next.

I would definitely do the 450. Cheaper bullets, and when you come against that charging scary, you won't wish you'd bought the 416.
If you aren't really planning on DG, I'd get the 416, for class and history. It might get use on this continent as well.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
A stainless Ruger No.1 in .458 Lott is very easy to rechamber to ".450 Rigby 3-1/4" Nitro-Express Thin Rim" just for Kicks. Any smith worth his salt can do that.

I could put Quigley's Sharps to shame with mine, and no paper patched bullets required.

Of course a stainles-laminate .450 NE single shot really deserves a laser sight.

Why do you think I was looking for the No.1?!? BUT......I was thinking a .510 Nitro Express with a quick twist, able to fire BMG bullets! I was originally looking for one of those when I found my new RSM.

quote:

Originally posted by Alain:
I hesitate between the .416 and .450 Rigby for DG ?
Which is the better?

A .416 DROPS an elephant in it's tracks in this video. Shot placement is KING!!! View them all HERE.

quote:

Originally posted by woodsracer:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
A stainless Ruger No.1 in .458 Lott is very easy to rechamber to ".450 Rigby 3-1/4" Nitro-Express Thin Rim" just for Kicks. Any smith worth his salt can do that.

I could put Quigley's Sharps to shame with mine, and no paper patched bullets required.

Of course a stainles-laminate .450 NE single shot really deserves a laser sight.

Why do you think I was looking for the No.1?!? BUT......I was thinking a .510 Nitro Express with a quick twist, able to fire BMG bullets! I was originally looking for one of those when I found my new RSM.

Young Grasshopper,
Is ".510 NE" a newer wildcat or just .500 NE 3" or .500 NE 3-1/4"?

Old Grasshopper has Ruger N0.1 in rimmed (450NE3.25"-rechambered from .458 Lott), rimless (factory .416Rigby), and belted (.500A2/.510JAB rebarrel).

If you do .500 NE for BMG bullets, you need to make it heavy and use a muzzle brake on a long barrel that is about 1.000" muzzle diameter. This spoils the handiness of a light weight, sporty .500 NE single shot.

My.510 JAB Ruger No.1 works well to 1000 yds with Hornady .510/750 grain A-Max at 2150 fps. Throat it so that the COL with that bullet can be 4.750" with the .500A2, or .50 Peacekeeper, or .510 JAB which are all the same thing.

If you use .500 NE 3-1/4", each of your cartridges will be over 5" long with that bullet.

You need two Ruger No.1's in .500 NE, one sporting rig with light barrel and open sights. One heavy barreled one with a picatinny rail on the barrel for scope.

BTW, my Ruger No.1 in .416 Rigby has been used to drop a water buffalo with 50 yard neck shot after the first lung shot at 150 yards got him primed, and has made a one-shot knock down of a tiny fallow deer doe at 342 yards laser verified.

Both of those kills, close and far, were with .416/350gr Barnes XFB at 2700 fps, with a 2.75X Burris Scout Scope pushed all the way forward on the quarter rib of the Ruger No.1 in .416 Rigby.

Well, it has been fun this weekend, but I gotta make myself scarce and get back to work for another week. Chow.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

Well, it has been fun this weekend, but I gotta make myself scarce and get back to work for another week. Chow.

Tell me one more thing enlightened one before you get back to the real world. Does the 450NE 3 1/4" out do the performance of the .458 Lott with modern loads in each?

woodsracer,
I am a ridgerunner on chores right now, but passed by the PC and had to take a peak.

The .450 NE 3.25", the one that started it all in 1898 for The Clan Rigby with the "Nitro Express" moniker (Nitroglycerin and Express Trains combined into one powerful descriptive): It has a case water capacity of 130 grains.

IIRC, the .458 Lott is about 105 grains.

I have Horneber .450 NE brass that can surely handle 60,000 psi IF I wanted it too.

Picking the right powder, you could surely equal the .458 Lott at lower pressure, whatever velocity you want get with whatever bullet. Or you could beat the .458 Lott at equal pressure.

The .450 NE cleans up a .458 Lott nicely in chambering, and can clean its clock ballistically too.

However, that is not its purpose unless one wants to get some VLD pointy bullets of heavy weight and make the Ruger No.1 in .450 NE into a Quigley Down Under/Billy Mills 3/4 mile rifle.

The purpose is just to have a rimmed cartridge in the single shot.

quote:

Originally posted by woodsracer:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Young Grasshoppers must remember that the .460 Weatherby belt is not so bad as the rebated rim that comes with it.

This Gray-Haired Grasshopper chooses .450 Dakota and .458 Lapua-Simba ...

And .416 Rigby ...
And .458 Lott ...

Yes, most perceptive master. I stand humbled by your experience! I must graduate to a larger caliber. I hear a stainless No.1 in .458 Lott beckoning my name.

He must like going to the range for a butt kicking session instead of a shooting session...

quote:

Originally posted by gixxer:

quote:

Originally posted by woodsracer:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Young Grasshoppers must remember that the .460 Weatherby belt is not so bad as the rebated rim that comes with it.

This Gray-Haired Grasshopper chooses .450 Dakota and .458 Lapua-Simba ...

And .416 Rigby ...
And .458 Lott ...

Yes, most perceptive master. I stand humbled by your experience! I must graduate to a larger caliber. I hear a stainless No.1 in .458 Lott beckoning my name.

He must like going to the range for a butt kicking session instead of a shooting session...

Honestly, I am just an adrenaline junkie. I race ATVs in the woods.....I rock climb and rapel the local clifts here on the Cumberland Plateau.....I drive a 2003 Ford F350 with a 6.0L Powerstroke diesel that pumps out over 400 rear wheel horsepower.....and I also like shooting/blowing up things!!! Read this story. Oh, yeah, I am also a Civil War Artillery enthusiast and am truly wanting one of THESE!!!

Seriously!!!

RIP, that sounds too cool!!!

I can identify with the desire for a cannon, though I think I might prefer a Whitworth with its hexagonal bore . . . or maybe one of those steel rifles like they designed for coastal artillary. Unfortuately, the local noise ordinances keep a lid on my desires. But years ago, in Eastern San Diego county, there was a chap named Charlie (no last name given) who loved and collected cannon. He even named his home "Cannon Hill" and every evening all the neighborhood kids would flock up to Cannon Hill for the evening gun. I guess he qualified as the neighborhood eccentric and was looked upon with amused tolerance by his more conventional neighbors. Today, I suppose, some horrified dragon from the ACLU or HCI or some other terminally offended organization would take him to court but back then, the LA Philharmonic took him to the Hollywood Bowl to provide the proper sound for the 1812 Overature. Whadda combination, culture and cannon. How c'n yer beat it?