quote:

Originally posted by lickilovac:
well we can argue for sure who makes best guns but not american for sure,hunt with best and classic,well when u walk from some european store filled with merkel heym krieghoff berreta holland&holland, boss,ziegehahn hauptman fusch ,and many more u dont wann look at winchester ruger and many more guns,thare is no comparisone,its like from mercedes benz u sit in some cheep pontiac,its my opinio dont take me wrong but germany is hundreds and hundreds generations ahead of usa in craftmanship,

No, your bias is showing here and a lot of you Euros. come here and make such offensive comments. American gunmakers are EQUAL to ANY on Earth and it is determined by PRICE. I own and have owned "big name" rifles/guns by Euro., UK, and American makers and, frankly, I doubt that you have even seen some of the guns you list and denigrate.

My Dakota 76 is FAR superior to the Sauers and Blasers in it's price range and better than almost any Euro-weenie rifle, excepting the old Brno 21/22, ZG-47 rifles and the Oberndorf Mausers in metal, their woodwork does not compare to Dakota's. It is smoother than my Mannlicher-Schoenauer and FAR better than a Sako of any type.

When you get to really costly guns, the Euros. DO make some fine ones, but, so does Champlin, Wells, Satterlee and on and on and on. Dollar for dollar, the Americans make the best, most functional and easy to repair guns in the world.

I think David Miller's rifles are now $40,000.00. I looked at 4 or 5 of them at his booth at SCI last month. They are nice.

However, they are built on Winchester actions. No matter what you do to it, its still a $500 action.

I also looked at quite a few of them made by John Bolliger of Mountain Riflery (sp). Many of his are also made on Winchester actions, but he is now important a Winchester copy from somewhere in Europe to make his rifles. His rifles range from about $15000.00 to a little over $35,000.00.

Dewey

What are you doing posting here on AR today. Your supposed to be downtown at the Olympics!!

22WRF,

I'll bet you lay the money down and you tell Miller, et al you want a H&W

or a Satterlee or what ever action as the foundation for a rifle and they'll

build the rifle on it. They ain't saying NO to a 20 thou $$$ or higher order

because a guy wants a Satterlee level action instead of an old Winchester.

"It just ain't happenin'"

I have shot 500grains 500 Nitro Ritterbusch on four or five seperate occasions.

As a 500 Nitro it kicks the piss out me...

However, whether shooting at "my" realistic elephant hunting distance of 6 yards or less, or at 15 yards, or 25 yards, I have NEVER fired a right and a left, that were not TOUCHING....

It is one of the most accurate, best regulated doubles I have ever fired...

It is not painful to shoot, it does however kick a little more than my heavier 450 No2...

But, it is accurate to the sights, and regulated most excellently.

It is a well built double, IMHO

quote:

Originally posted by BigFiveJack:
USA: David Miller, Echols, Wiebe, Biesen are just a few of a dozen or so "Killer" rifle makers who can best anyone whom they choose to best, from anywhere on Earth...

with all due respect to the fine US rifle builders who I have mostly met & inspected their work,
and with the same due respect & acknowlewdgement,
There IS also a handful of not so well known western world cottage rifles builders on this planet, whos works do not take a back seat to anything those more well known US Doz. can do.
Some really dont care to be part of ACGG or show at SCI...and they have more than enough ongoing work cut out for themselves as it is.

I don't doubt you. There are guys scattered about the land
scape that can do work at the utmost quality level.

HAHA WHO WOULD BUY DAKOTA RIFLE OVER EUROPEANS RIFLES,THEY HAVE BETTER FINISH QUALLITY ETC, WELL I WANT ARGUE,BUT I DONT HUNT WITH CHEAP PLASTIC RIFLES FROM USA

GO TO JOHAN FANZOY SHOP, HAMBRUSCH, LUDWIG BOROWNIK, MR JENS ZIEGEHAHN ,I WENT TO THOSE SHOPS AND I OWN SEVERAL RIFLES THAT U CAN JUST DREAM ABOUT IT,I DONT DRIVE CHEVY A MERCEDES A BIT BETTER I THINK

lickmydick,

you're getting obnoxious; first you dig up dead threads. then you type in caps. standard internet protocol tells us that the cap lock button means you are screaming.

and nobobdy gives a damn what you drive.

if you have something to offer the members through thoughtful commentary or insight then we'd love to hear it. otherwise, perhaps it's time you explored the bottom of the falls beginning at the top.

quote:

Originally posted by lickilovac:
HAHA WHO WOULD BUY DAKOTA RIFLE OVER EUROPEANS RIFLES,THEY HAVE BETTER FINISH QUALLITY ETC, WELL I WANT ARGUE,BUT I DONT HUNT WITH CHEAP PLASTIC RIFLES FROM USA

Dakota brand does not stack up to the Euro makers

you refer to, however the true custom rifle makers

of the USA, like those I already named, can stand

with, and best any of the Europeans on a given day.

The next day the European will create the gem. And

really "lick", learn how to "play in the sand box".

lickilovac tries to affect a middle European speaking in semi-familiar English perona.

Read his recent posts closely, one line at a time, and close your eyes to pause a bit between each line.

His overall syntax and sentence construction is American.

I smell a troll.

Trolls we have had, trolls (often the same troll) we have now and trolls will always pop up here.

A certain percentage of humanity is cursed with personality disorders; the internet is a perfect venue for them (yes, the White House as well).

Anyway, my (obviously) unsolicited advice with Mr. lickilovac is to:

click on his board name and "And ADD Him/Her/It To The IGNORE LIST".

This particular topic has been trodden many times on AR. The demographics of the hunting community in the USA is quite different than in Europe. Part of that reflect the amount of open space and public land that we have here, some of it reflects the differences in history and culture between the USA and European countries.

Most hunters in the US are of modest means. The manufacturers produce millions and millions of firearms per year for the US market. Much fewer hunting rifles are produced for European consumption.

Many US gun users/cranks/loonies/afficianados own over 100 rifles, sidearms and shotguns. I used to. Most European countries place a limit on the total number for firearms an individual may possess.

To hunt generally costs more in Europe. It "tends" to be more a sport of wealthier people than in the US.

Anyone can hang out a "Gunsmith" shingle here. I can only dream of having a class of gunsmiths who have trained at Ferlach available.

The European rifles I have owned have tended to cost more than US models. They tend to be more complete, more thouroughly thought out and in less need of after purchase corrections.

The refrain of "that's the way we have always done it" is more often heard in Europe than in the US. Shooting a rifle with a scope mounted as on the Ritterbusche picture is an exercise in total masochism, but those E.A.W. type mounts are "traditional" (as are claw mounts) on the continent.

And on, on, and on some more.

Anyway, I am putting Mr. lickilovac on ignore and pressing on.

Now, I have to go send some PM enquiries about Jorgen.

LD

PS Mr. Saeed, thank you for providing the ignore function.