Any suggestions? At the moment, I'm thinking a Ruger Alaskan, with the barrel shortened to 16", and a muzzle break, and limbsaver pad put onto a canoe stock -- I realize it's kind of the impossible (light weight, and low recoil) but that's my best guess....

I don't think you should have such a short barrel as the muzzle blast will be worse than the recoil. Put an F990 recoil pad on it as well. Leave the barrel longer combined with the muzzle break it should be pretty tame. You didn't mention caliber. I'm thinking along the 375 H&H.
Take good care,
Dave

Just my two bits but... a 16" bbl will be real loud and the blast will be up there too. These two items can contribute to a gun shy situation as well as recoil can.

MBOGO
Beat me to it.

If it was me I think I would go with a Mag na port job tho if you decide the Muzzle breaks a must. It is as quiet as you can get from a break and still get meaningful recoil redux. Plus should help the muzzle flip.

If african DG is the subject then you are stuck w/ the .375 minimum. In that case the Ruger or the HH are in order, but I would recomend not getting carried away w/ shortening and lightening. If north american DG is the fare then the .338 is a good one. The .416 Taylor is a great caliber for ladies in Africa. Dr.C

.....Aglifter .,.,.,.,., I am strongly aware of the delima of setting up a rifle that will be RIGHT for a special woman .......The US Forest Service has women qualify with and carry in the woods 375 H&H.........It is a case of if they want the job they have to do it ......,.,No qualification,.no career in the rain forests of coastal Alaska....Alot of them do qualify... They have shown me their bruised shoulders to prove it ......Heavy old model 70,s and model 700,s with sometimes 20-22 " barrels and peep sights .........If men can and do pack around 26" barrel rifles women can carry a 20" ....I think the Ruger Alaskan , back bored about 1.5 "and ported with side ports,.,. The non canoe paddle stock is prob the best for light weight and shortenability ,.,., put a sorbathane pad on it like the KickEze magnum rifle / Hi Vis gtf ./Limbsaver ,ect...I would be tempted to try a fixed 4x leupold scope as they have lots of eye relief .... There are a number of female world wide huntreses here at Accurate Reloading and I think their input would be better than us guy,s ......A 416 Taylor with a 315 gr [I think that is the weight ] GS HV @ 2500 fps would be a very good allaround load .... or a 300 gr TSX @ same speed also .....but the 375 Ruger with a 270 gr bullet @ 2650 is hard to beat ...,,,,jmo

My daughter is 5'4" and weighs around 110#. She fell in love with the new Ruger 'Alaskan' with the 20" bbl but hated the Hogue stock so I removed it and ordered a factory Ruger synthetic stock from Brownells for $65 -cut an inch off the butt and re-installed the recoil pad and now she has a short, light (7#4oz) DGR that she shoots very well.
She and I both felt that 350 Gr Woodleigh bullets @ 2260 fps were more comfortable to shoot than the factory 270gr loads @ 2650fps.
She has shot five or six boxes of ammo through it but far only had to shoot one B&C brown bear.

Another simple way to go would be a Marlin 45-70 guide gun with a shortened stock

Especially if the guide gun is shooting BMB 540gr Garrets.

had this dicussion a while back with a gunsmith friend and what he did for this situation is exactly opposite of the way you guys are thinking. 375, wood stock fit to her (she wa 5'2 and 100 lbs) and a 26 inch barrel. Nose heavy and 11 pounds, on purpose. Think about it less muzzle rise, slower recoil. She loved it, and come on 11 lbs. is 1 more than a bag of potatoes.

Go with a .375H&H. The most important factor to make a good shooting gun for her is to make sure the stock is fitted to her. Correct the LOP, have it fitted to her shoulder with a Decelerator type recoil pad. Have the trigger made light.

For shooting practice on sticks, they create less bang on the body than a bench. Also have her practice dry firing. Don't over do bench shooting, I take a .22 to shoot inbetween. She should be able to handle 300 grain bullets with no problem (no hot loads).

Heavy gun = less felt recoil! Mine are all 11 pounds.

404 jeffery or 10,75x68, loaded to nominal..
or 416 taylor

do WORRY about lop, its important

375 something, and make it weigh 9.5 loaded

A 16" barrel and a muzzle break on the same gun would accomplish one thing, it would straighten her hair for sure and she would never hear again..that may or may not be a good thang!

How about a .375 or 416 Rem with a muzzle break on a 24" barrel and load it down to 2000 FPS with a 350 gr. Barnes X...That will kill a buffalo and not stomp her much as all. Even a 9.3x62 with 300 gr. Swifts at 2100 would probably work well enough.

I consider women like leopards. Yes, they're dangerous but most medium bore cartridges with high velocity, placed correctly will do the job.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
I consider women like leopards. Yes, they're dangerous but most medium bore cartridges with high velocity, placed correctly will do the job.

I'd agree with a .375. If you can get away with it where you are, 9.3 might be an even better choice. Do no cut down the barrel, that won't do anyone any favors. It'll be louder, increasing audible strain, it'll rise faster, increasing perceived recoil, and it'll lighten then gun, allowing it to accelerate backwards in recoil faster - no good for building confidence.

Instead, look to reduced loads for lowering recoil. You can knock 100fps off a 300gr. .375 load and still get great penetration and performance at DGR ranges.

Note, by .375, that doesn't mean H&H automatically, .375 Taylor and .376 Steyr (edit: sneaking the .375 Hawk/Scoville in there) might be good choices to consider as well on a shorter action. That'll get you a more compact rifle. Fit with a 22" barrel, should be plenty for that amount of powder in that bore size. With a Decelerator pad and a shooting vest with padded shoulder, you might not even need a muzzle break.

No one needs a muzzle brake.

I'm in the process of building my wife a stainless 450 marlin 0n a stainless ruger mk11 action,20" tube with back-up sights and a 1x-4x scope.I think a 400gr@2150fps should work well

9.3 x 62 m/m. Easy to shoot. Depends on where she will be hunting. If needed to be "legal minmum", 375 H&H. No breaks, to noisy.

Keith

My take ... 416Taylor with a good soft/solid combination of 400gr at 2150fps in a 9lb rifle. No short barrels, no muzzle breaks.
Cheers...
Con

ag,

Pretty much all good advice above; my $0.02 worth as well.......

Conceptually, I'd reco the 375 Ruger Alaskan as well because it fits what you're looking for sorta straight from the factory. I've never had one in my hands though so couldn't speak from first-hand expereince with that particular rifle.

I've a Winchester Model 70 .375 H&H with a 20" barrel (had 4" chopped) and it simply made a world of difference in the rifle - to me. It was long, beefy & barrel heavy to begin with and now it has better balance, handles better & is certainly LESS heavy - but still solid enough to absorb a good chunk of recoil.

I also agree that all the modern Bells & Whistles (stock & recoil pad enhansements) should be optimized for a smaller/youth/more petite shooter but have to draw the line at a Muzzle Brake. If it was me I'd NOT have one installed and expecially with a such a short tube. I have Magna-Porting on another .375H&H (bought it second-hand) and my perception is that it isn't any louder (Whadyasay; Huh?), may help with the recoil (personally, I can't feel the JND myself) but it definately reduces muzzle flip on that rifle (and it's a LIGHT .375H&H). A consideration.

I'm not Mr. Sniper Rifle but have been around a few years possessing a German Hunting Instructor's License for the US Armed Forces here and have had a female student or two in my classes over the years. The vast majority of them that I've instructed didn't really give a hoot or actually seem to perceive more/less recoil but then again these aren't Boomers, rather "standard" hunting cartridges & rifles. They seemed to always comment on two things; the WEIGHT & BALANCE of a rifle or shotgun - just my $0.02. Finding that "Just Right" is key IMO.

Ruger.. leave the barrel, load 300gr to 2350

bang, flop

9.3X74R Chapuis with the stock fitted to her and a recoil reducer in the but stock and a limb saver recoil pad.
Seriously I have a friend who’s wife shoots every thing from whit tails to brown bear with her 375H&H. Don’t make the barrel to short and make sure it fits her and let her tell you what she wants.
Bill

A lot of good suggestions here.

My wife shot her cape buff with MY [she says HER] 450/400 double rifle, [scoped].

She used her 12x12x30-06 Sauer drilling for most of her hunting on the deer lease so she is familar with break open guns.

I NEVER have her shoot or zero a hard kicker off of a bench.

She only shoots them in the field, or while hunting.

From "picking" rifles for my wife I have learned;
You do not want a rifle that is too big, too long or too heavy, kicks too hard, lets the scope hit her in the face, or by operating it makes her break a nail.

I think a bolt action with around a 20" bbl in 9,3x62, or 375 H&H loaded down with 300 gr bullets at @ 2150 to 2200fps, or a Chapuis double in 9,3x74R.

Make her up some practice loads with bullets in the 220 to 250 range at @2200fps.

Then have start shooting the hunting loads a few at a time.

Be sure and mount the scope to fit her.

I would get one with a rubber rear ring, just in case.

quote:

How about a .375 or 416 Rem with a muzzle break on a 24" barrel and load it down to 2000 FPS with a 350 gr. Barnes X...That will kill a buffalo and not stomp her much as all. Even a 9.3x62 with 300 gr. Swifts at 2100 would probably work well enough.

I think that is getting a little on the slow side and would limit the distance on shots. It would be better to increase the weight a bit and keep the velocity up. I would think that a really good recoil pad would soften up a 375 enough. Women aren't made of sugar you know.

Take good care,
Dave

Gerry
I have Magna-Port on my and my wifes 300 Win Mag bbls and on a 375 H&H bbl.

I do not fine it any louder in the field either.

And when shooting non Magna-Ported bbls side by side [same gun Blaser R 93] when testing I noticed a definate reduction in sharpness of recoil and less muzzle jump.


470 Mbogo

I do not know about Canuk girls, but down here girls are made of sugar and spice and everything nice.

At least they start out that way.

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:
Any suggestions? At the moment, I'm thinking a Ruger Alaskan, with the barrel shortened to 16", and a muzzle break, and limbsaver pad put onto a canoe stock -- I realize it's kind of the impossible (light weight, and low recoil) but that's my best guess....

If she is big enough to require a big boar to do her in. You better hope she dont take it away from ya. Oh that is the reason for the 16" bbl?

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:
Any suggestions? At the moment, I'm thinking a Ruger Alaskan, with the barrel shortened to 16", and a muzzle break, and limbsaver pad put onto a canoe stock -- I realize it's kind of the impossible (light weight, and low recoil) but that's my best guess....

.375H&H, 24", proper American standard stock with decent pad. No brakes, that'll just blow her ears out because she'll forget her plugs.

Something in that vein, .416 Rigby or .458 WinMag as alternates, Buy a bloody Ruger .375 if you're still keen on those stubby things and are loading for those. Light weight and brakes are both stupid unless you are going mountain climbing with her when you're hunting.

Big question is: "Is she going to HUNT WITH IT, or is she carrying it along just in case?"

Just in case rifle can be overly light and stupid in many ways. If she aims to hunt with it, you need to arrange a proper hunting rifle.

NE 450 #2,

Yo - we're fully aligned. My #2 .375H&H Boomer is a Magna-Ported Blaser R93 standard weight barrel also. The entire rifle (OffRoad stocked); while not a featherweight is pretty light as .375H&H's go. Couldn't say much about recoil & muzzle blast in the field 'cause my (one-tracked) mind is fully occuppied on the game; funny how that works?

From the bench though it's a Boomer alright but the Magna-Porting seems (to me) to assist in calming things down considerably.

Gerry

In rough country I sometimes use my Blaser R 93 Tracker in 375 H&H [no Magna Port].

Without the kick stop to keep it as light as possible.

Like you I never notice the recoil when shooting at game, but it is a thumper off the bench.

I would think any well balanced rifle in calibers from 9.3 to 404 would work well, but most importantly with mild loads ( 2100fps to 2300fps).
And in my opinion that goes for any one and not just the woman.

....There are some things that my wife won,t do ,,,one of them is even pick up a rifle she considers too heavey the 2nd time ......She thinks the 375 Ruger Alaskan is [ok ] but a little heavy,, but not too bad ....I had her shooting a load I made up for her in my 458 of a 300 gr X @ 2500 fps ....The noise of the muzzel break didn,t bother her much .but the recoil definately would have and that would have been the end of her shooting it ..It weighed 9 lbs loaded slung and scoped ,., but she was the bear watch so she packed it ...,,.,.,Some of yall are kind of out there wusses when it come to your ears .............But to each his own i spoose.,.,.,..As an aside ,.,.,A friend of mine who has a bear rifle with him 7 days a week for 7 or 8 months every year told me that his 375 Ruger Alaskan kicked less than his Marlin Guide Gun .......

Somewhere in Nickudu's files is the article "Recoil versus Accuracy" by Ganyana.Good points including slightly reduced velocity giving significant recoil reduction.Proper stock fit is essential !!

one day I was handling my .35 whelen and realized that it had a lot of merit as a D.G. rifle for a woman.
It's a good bit lighter than my .338's and .375's the recoil is very manageable and having 5 down in the mag helps make up for what little loss in horse power you give up.
If a double rifle is an option I think a 9.3x74 would do well for most D.G.

Both of these rounds are light in anyones eyes for the biggest D.G. but we are hypotheticly talking about arming someone who could'nt handle rifles that are typicly used for elephant and buff. I wouldn't think twice about hunting the biggest bear with ether the 9.3 or .35

/

Aglifter:

I would NEVER consider a 7 3/4 pound .375 as a good rifle for a shooter of small stature or a woman. To much recoil. Your best bet would be a CZ in 9,3X62. They weigh about eight pounds. Put a Burris Safari scope on it and it will tip the scales at right around nine pounds. Perfect weight and a measurable decrease in recoil.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:

She and I both felt that 350 Gr Woodleigh bullets @ 2260 fps were more comfortable to shoot than the factory 270gr loads @ 2650fps.

I bet that would be a lot better for most peoples - and game!

Women can use virtually any rifle a man can use. they are usually just more practical. Didn't Osa Johnson use a 465 dbl when backing up her husband while he filmed charging animals- and she was five foot tall and 100pounds. Connie Brooks from Barnes Bullets is the same size and can use virtually anything. My daughter has used my 505 Gibbs as well as her brother's full sized 416 Rigby but she prefers a rifle that fits.
The point is that women - like men - shoot better with a rifle that fits them. Hindering them with a ten pound rifle with a longer barrel to keep the recoil and blast down is akin to us men using a 14 pound rifle with a 30 inch bull barrel.

Handling recoil is a matter of training and experience as well as personal tolerances.

My daughter actually likes her little 375
Ruger but she is actively guiding bear and moose hunters and carries her rifle all day so a short light one makes sense for her. If the women in your life simply plans on accompanying you on safari and isn't carrying the rifle more than a half hour away from the safari vehicle then the parameters for an "ideal" rifle are different.

I have a good friend whose wife hunts with him on a regualar basis and has been to Africa with him and taken her share of plains game. He started his wife out hunting deer with a .270 and then had a left handed Model 700 Remington converted to .338-06 for her. He taught her correctly, brouht her into shooting slowly and now, I think she is one of the best shooters that I know. They recently had the Montana Rifle Company build up a left hand .375 H&H for her but it is not light. It weighs in at 9.5 lbs or better to help mitigate the recoil. I am confident that she will learn to shoot it well.

I have a whole bunch of boomers that I like to shoot but as I get older, my tastes in hunting rifles tend to run to something a little lighter with less recoil. I don't want a .375 Ruger. The cartridge is great but when you start launching 300 grain bullets at better than 2500 fps, I want something that weighs more than a Hawkeye. My Ruger Safari Magnum in .375 H&H is easy to shoot because it weighs in at around ten pounds. If I don't want a .375 Hawkeye for myself, I would not inflict it on my wife either. The perfect compromise is the 9,3X62. It's light, handy and easy to hold and shoot. That's the gun I prefer and, if I was introducing my wife to shooting a gun capabale of taking larger game, that's the caliber I would select. A CZ 550 will only set you back abut $500 and if you want a stainless gun, Montana Rifle Company will make one up for you for about a $1000.

I promise you this. It you take an inexperienced shooter and start them out with something that is going to really belt them, they will learn to flinch and that is a really, really hard habit to break.

Dave

I'm near deaf as a post but I've noticed most women aren't and non-deaf people seem to be less likely to develop a flinch with less muzzle blast. That's where my comment on brakes or lack thereof comes from.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:

I do not know about Canuk girls, but down here girls are made of sugar and spice and everything nice.

At least they start out that way.

Never been through a divorce have ya

quote:

Originally posted by mete:
Somewhere in Nickudu's files is the article "Recoil versus Accuracy" by Ganyana.Good points including slightly reduced velocity giving significant recoil reduction.Proper stock fit is essential !!

There's also an article in those files called Dangerous Game Rifles for the Fairer Sex also by Ganyana.