how much would one help in my 416 remington mag? never tryed one befor has anyone here?

It is simple physics. Adding mass to your rifle will mitigate recoil. How much can be measured in terms of free recoil; 'perceived recoil' is subjective and can only be 'measured' by the individual.

However, adding weight to a gun can throw off the balance.

Another option is to add length of pull by either restocking, or installing a thicker recoil pad (which will also increase LOP).

If you find the recoil of your .416RM obnoxious, install a Pachmayr Decelerator or F990 pad, a Limbsaver, or other soft pad.

George

thank you George.

Is it really "adding mass"? Or is not the inertia of the mercury in the tube an important factor? If it were only a matter of mass, a lead weight in the buttstock would suffice. But the liquid mercury, due to its inertia AND mass, exerts a cumulative effect.

I have a Kick Stop in a Blaser R 93 which, I believe, is pretty much the same thing. It's about the softest shooting 375 H&H Magnum you'll hope to find. It doesn't add much weight and I don't think there is a negative effect on balance.

conifer,

These mercury recoil reducers do have some weight to them. The Dead Mule weighs seven ounces. That will reduce free recoil measurably.

The inertial dampening reduces perceived recoil, but that is subjective and not measurable.

George

You might want to consider net weight with these mercury reducers or anything in the butt stock. You may be removing wood (mass) to add a denser insert. You may be adding +10 oz and removing 3 or 5 in the process pending the density of the wood or the weight of the reducer. I have reducers in 3 guns and 2 of them have a little weight added to the forearm to help the balance.
I am not sure about any inertia effects but the weight does help.

EZ

I think the real issue is marketing....it's hard to get $200 for a bar of lead, but create some shifting weight gizmo and you can make some real money. A well known rifle maker I know adds 00 Buckshot into the stock, and when it's balanced and weighted right, cements it in place with Accraglass. I think the weight is the important component.

A mercury (or tungsten bead) filled tube absolutely does reduce felt recoil.

I think it must have something to do with spreading the duration of the recoil force over time; it seems to me to be more than just recoil attenuation caused by increased weight.

Mike's right, and the effectiveness is due to the material. I've found both mercury and shot are excellent, mercury better being a liquid.

You rarely remove weight, it's installed in the drawbolt hole, and there are different sizes...length, diameter, and weight of course. My Verney-Carron (Demas) 470 had a huge shot filled reducer, weighed like 14 oz. I replaced it with a smaller 8 oz merc tube and it was better in every way.

What is "ProBoards"?

You aren't a skateboarder are you?

Rich
DRSS

To add a recoil reducer, you remove some amount of wood from the stock. With a heavy recoil rifle, does this affect the strength of the stock?

This is only in a double rifle. A bolt action has no draw bolt. I have seen some over the years that do have a hole drilled in the butt stock however that must only be to reduce weight.
I doubt the gentleman that began this thread is using a double when he mentioned a 416 Remington

quote:

Originally posted by Showbart:
Mike's right, and the effectiveness is due to the material. I've found both mercury and shot are excellent, mercury better being a liquid.

You rarely remove weight, it's installed in the drawbolt hole, and there are different sizes...length, diameter, and weight of course. My Verney-Carron (Demas) 470 had a huge shot filled reducer, weighed like 14 oz. I replaced it with a smaller 8 oz merc tube and it was better in every way.

I have two in my 500 Jeffery. I love them. They don't gurgle or make noise. They improved the balance point to be right in the middloe of my magazine which is where I like it (it makes for a lively rifle). My 500 jeffery weighs right around 11.25 lbs without scope, 12 lbs with. 570g TSX's at 2300 fps are not a problem offhand recoil wise at all.

Regards,

Chuck

thanks guys lots of good info here. ya its going in my safari 700.

Fishguts:

I have a remington .416 in a synthetic stock. A really light gun. I had a gunsmith add a mercury recoil reducer and it helped significantly. It didn't effect the balance of the gun or how it handled. Hope this helps.

its my opinion that, for weight, the merc tube is more effective than lead ... though you can put more mass of lead in the same sized hole.

balance, more specifically, counter balance, is the important part.

Chuck, merc tubes slosh, just rattle your gun .. that's how it works, the tube is 2/3 full and it delays recoil .. i can feel 2 distinct "hits" when shooting a gun with a tube in it.. like an AR's recoil buffer ..

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
I think the real issue is marketing....it's hard to get $200 for a bar of lead, but create some shifting weight gizmo and you can make some real money. A well known rifle maker I know adds 00 Buckshot into the stock, and when it's balanced and weighted right, cements it in place with Accraglass. I think the weight is the important component.

Lead shot is a classic butt stock filler as you describe for Remington 700 PSS rifles, especially ones that spend a lot of days locked up in the trunk of a cruiser which will cause cracks in those butt stocks over time.

Regarding the "hype" factor of the mercury tubes with bearings or something similar in them. I have shot pistols with Tungsten guide rods and the old Haarts Mercury tubes and the Mercury tubes definitely worked better in MY hands in MY pistol - even with a 9mm Glock model 17 which doesn't kick bad at all.

Placebo effect? Perceived recoil reduction? All I know is it works for me.

As most of you know, recoil (a momentum reaction) is determined by the formula for momentum M1V1 = M2V2 based on the fact that for every momentum action there is an equivalent momentum reaction.
Say M1V1 is the bullet & gas mass times the velocity of them both then M2V2 is the rifle mass times velocity rearward into your shoulder.

By looking at the formula it is easy to see that once the value for M1V1 is established i.e. a given weight of bullet, muzzle velocity, powder type and therefore charge weight, then you can play around with values for M2 and V2 to arrive at a recoil that is bearable.

If we raise the mass of the rifle the rearward velocity of the rifle will be lower to arrive at the same value as M1V1, hence recoil will be less. Perhaps the mercury recoil reducer tube affects the rifle velocity?

To be honest I have not seen a mercury tube, not commonly used here in NZ. We are men here so we just take the pain.

If the mercury blob is at the rear of the tube on firing (and I don’t know how you ensure this unless the rifle happens to be tilted upwards?) as the rifle recoils rearwards, the actual mass recoiling is only the rifle as the blob is stationary until the front of the tube recoiling rearward with the rifle hits the mercury blob. That is, the mercury blob itself does not actually go forward but the rifle and tube go rearward at V2 the value of which will be higher than if the extra weight in the stock was a fixed lead blob equivalent in weight to the mercury tube and blob. But, and this is the theory, once the front of the tube contacts the mercury blob then some of the rearward momentum (recoil) of the rifle is absorbed because then we have a momentum reaction operating in the opposite direction to the recoiling rifle as the mercury blob for all intents and purposes is moving in the opposite direct to the recoiling rifle.

So while the rifle recoils for an instant faster than if it had the extra fixed weight of lead in the stock, once the mercury blob contacts the front of the tube, the rifle will decelerate and felt recoil should be less.

From my point of view there are a few variables that could influence the working of the mercury recoil reducer if indeed because there is a delayed “reaction”, this is what makes the recoil feel less. To maximize this “reaction” How do you ensure the mercury is at the back end of the tube on firing or does it not matter at all as momentum is only a product of V and M and not distance? If the mercury blob happens to be at the front of the tube then it will act just like a fixed lead weight of equivalent mass and reduce recoil anyway. What effect does how tightly the rifle is held, or what type of recoil pad is fitted, have on the operation of a mercury reducer?

It’s all very simple, or is it? Perhaps we have a physics expert on the forum who could give us the real low down on this question?

i think im gonna scratch NZ off my bucket list.

I have one in my .505 and and non-mercury tube contraption in my .416 and I think they both work. Be it weight or momentum, they reduce perceived recoil from my shoulder's standpoint.

Yes, Mercury and mechanical recoil reducers do work to reduce the felt recoil. I have them in two of my rifles and 3 of my shotguns. I have installed both mercury and mechanical, and I can't tell the difference.

25 years ago when I was shooting competitive Trap, I installed an Edwards reducer in both my BT-99 and Citori shotguns. Even with custom fitted stocks, the reduction in felt recoil was noticeable after I installed the reducers.

Last year I put one in my 870 12 ga shotgun. This is my plain Jane "ugly" gun for every day bird hunting. It has a black barrel and a black plastic stock that I added a Limbsaver pad. Every year about a month before bird season opens, I bring this shotgun to the range and shoot several hundred shells through it at Skeet. Even with light 7/8 oz target loads, shooting this gun would result in a bruised and sore cheekbone. The reduction in felt recoil was immediately noticeable after I installed the reducer in this shotgun. It no longer bites my cheekbone!

My rifles with stock reducers in them are my .375 Ultra mag and my .300 Weatherby. Both rifles are comfortable to shoot, even from a prone position.