i am looking for a second elephant rifle and im really tossed up on what to get

these are the rifles and caliber i am considering

- searcy double 500 nitro box lock under lever

-585 nyatie bolt action (havnt desided who i will get to make it)i am left handed so i my choises of actions are limited.

-searcy farquson 577 nitro

basicaly nothing under 50 caliber and must obtain at least or around 6000 foot pounds

Have AHR build you a 585 AHR or 500 AHR and be done with it. It is just a matter of an opinion as far as which is better for you. Good luck.

If I remember your other rifle is a Searcy 577 underlever. If so I would get the 500 underlever or even a 470 underlever so as to have the rifles as alike as possible. This rifle would be a little lighter than the first, and it might be easier to get 470 ammo in a pinch.

ya im defintly leaning twords another double and i think i may leave the bolt as my third project i would defintly like to have two double for elephant befor i worry about a bolt gun besides im more comfortable with a double anyways

450 i changed my order from a 577 nitro to a 700 nitro

im thinking my 3 elephant gun battery is going to look something like this

-700 nitro double
-577 nitro double
-500 nitro double

i like idea of the 500 because its always nice having a back up with plenty of hoars power but in a lighter package if i so wish to use it.

[ 03-01-2003, 23:59: Message edited by: black-powder-big-bore ]

Bear in mind as I say this, if I had the money, I would have a couple of dozen double rifles, all "shooters" as I really like them. But why 3 elephant rifles? You can usually only take two rifles to Africa without a big hassle. Get two and go elephant hunting.

If you start thinking about a bolt again, .500 A-Square or one of the other .510-.460 Wby cartridges makes a lot of sense. Look at the work that has been done lately on the .600 Overkill cartridge. Both of these may be better choices than the .585 Nyati. Then there is .500 Jeffery, and/or .505 Gibbs or .510-.505 Gibbs.

I think there is a Montana 1999 action in LH coming soon that will be big enough to do a lot of good things for LH-ers. I have not been watching the thread, because the discretionary budget is a bit thin right now....I do not know the dimensions, but I do know that there is a subscription for the first few hundred actions at an appallingly reduced rate. These actions are considered to be highly desirable by the CRF experts.

Black powder BIG BORE- You are definately not smart enough to own a 500AHR or a 585 NYATI/AHR. I don't believe you could even reload a 700NE. These are weopons for elite degreed mechanical engineers like myself. Heck you are not even smart enough to reload a belted case!I read your post on that one a few weeks ago. Do you even know how to load a 700 NE? Just buy something you can shoot like a .22 Marlin and brag somewhere else. If I didn't know you, I'd think you were stupid!AS you know, only I have a true 700 NE made by Butch and it shoot MOA at 200 yrds.-Jim

[ 03-02-2003, 10:25: Message edited by: 470nitro ]

Hell,I'd buy a bolt gun in a suitable caliber for $1200,and take the $30,000 (or more) I saved from not buying the three doubles you listed,and head to Africa.

You are aware,aren't you,that for what you'ld pay for a new 500,577 and 700,you could hunt the Big 4 (no rhino)and a plethora of plains game???

Brian.

brian m i under stand that bolt actions are much cheaper but there is something that really gets me about doubles

and of course there is always personal preference
you prefer bolt guns there is nothing wrong with that and i am repectful of your choise i just prefer doubles

i will most likely end up with only two doubles and 1 bolt.

470 nitro i send the die to hornady i was in fact doing nothing wrong the die was actually to tight and they refunded my money or i had the choice of a new die set i said since i havnt had this problem befor i will take the new die set it works perfectly.

ne 450 no 2 have you been elephant hunting befor if so could we exchange some email i would like to hear anything you may have to say on the subject.

black powder, I would recommend the 500 A2. Mine has been absolutely awesome and I have no complaints. I admit however, I have not shot elephant with it. Lesson learned, do not shoot the Woodleigh bullets in the A Square as these bullets seem to come apart at velocities over 2100 fps! I did not have any lost game due to failures, but the recovered bullets were near total failure.
470nitro, what big bores do you own, and what is your hunting experience?
Lucs

BBPB,
I am tired of hearing $25 bucks a round for 700 nitro. This is simply not the case if YOU reload.

In US dollars, you can load the 700 nitro for LESS THAN $5.25 bucks, us.

$4.20 for woodleigh bullets, (105per 25, delivered)www.huntingtons.com
83� powder (assuming $23/#)
2� per primer federal 215s

You once stated you can load it for about the same amount as 50 bmg, again, simply false. Match grade bullets
$1.50 (barnes or hornady)
$2.50 for powder
10� for the primer

$4.10, if YOU reload.

Sorry to go off on you, but if you can afford a 700 nitro gun, and expound on having more, you need a course in economics. Your $25 for 700 nitro is neary 4 times the cost, after dies and brass.

jeffe

(where's a bullshit meter when you need one?)

HEY PECOS, gimme that "sign"

[ 03-02-2003, 23:13: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

My first trip to Africa will be in June 2004, Zimbabwe.

Cripes, where do these people come from? Is there some sort of genetic engineering program going on to breed people to work at McDonalds?

BPBB, you may be able to afford a couple of rifles and hunts now but you are way to dumb to keep any of your money for long.

.470, well what can I say?

500A2, Woodleighs coming apart over 2100fps? Please.

Need Ideas for a Second Elephant Rifle? Need and idea for a Brain Transplant.

[ 03-02-2003, 22:43: Message edited by: Mickey1 ]

hey jeffeosso and brian m --- don't forget this one, courtesy of Pecos45 --- so I am clear on this, this is intended to address the four stooges, BPBB, 470nitro and 500A2 - maybe our old buddy SCOTT SWEET has returned, what say buttmunch?? how is your sister, ~Judy??? .............................................here's to you, dungflywannabe

what the hell did i say to up set you people all i asked was a simple question what would you use as a a back up elephant rifle thats it then i get raped in the ass just because ssome of you dont like my choise as a main rifle.

jeffoso what the fuck is your problem i said nothing to up set you yet you seem intent on attacking me personaly maybe your just a bitter man i dont know but your not going to get friends by calling people stupid.

i cant belive this this is the only forem on the net where peole call you stupid when you ask for there oppion on a rifle.??? i just dont get it....

700 nitro

102.00$ us box of 25 4.08 per head
20$per peice of brass
4-5 cents each
powder .28 cents and ill round to .30 cents

24.43 a complete loaded round

If your heart is set on a 700 NE, then so be it. Personally I would stop at the 600 NE for cost and reloadability reasons, not to mention penetration.

The other double I would suggest is a 500 NE. Personally it is at my recoil limit anyway.

Then I would get a bolt that can be used for both plains game and dangerous game. At the low end a 9.3 x 62 or 375 H&H, or if you insist on real power then a 458 lott or 470 capstick.

I would not go into the really big bores like a 500 A2 or 585 nyati with the bolt since you have that field covered with the doubles.

hey dan did you get the message i left on your machine i think its your work number you gave me i was going to ask you about your 585.

ya i think the 700 double and a 500 double would be my best bet i already have a 375 for plains game i just wanted a 3 gun battery for elephant and needed some opionons on the second and third gun.

Steve, to be honest I do not think a 3 rile battery for elephant is practical. It will be difficult to transport more than 2 rifles via international air. Further, you are limited to 11 pounds of ammo (5 kg). That means about 3.5 pounds of ammo per gun. With big bore ammo, you will use that limit up in less than 20 rounds. Personally I think it would be preferable to take 1 less gun and more ammo per gun.

I was shooting the 500 nE today, and to be honest it is my recoil limit. The 585 nyati kicks less sharply but moves my shoulder farther rearward. I do not think I could handle a 577 ne double.

Since you are a leftie, your options for building a 585 nyati are very few. I advise againt the model 70 route, even though I did it, because the labor required is monumental. Best course of action would be to get a montana 1999 PH left handed action with a 0.800 bolt diameter and go from there. But at best that action will be available the end of this year.

You can buy Bertram 700 NE brass for US$260 for 10:

http://www.users.bigpond.com/ammodump/brass.html

But I would buy the brass from Butch Searcy instead.

ya iv given up on the larg bolt action idea because ill have that ground coverd with my doubles

i was not going to bring all 3 guns at 1 time to africa i just wanted three gun so i can chage it up a little if i so wished to do so.

regardless the 700 will always be with me when chasing elephants it would be a back up gun that may change .

ok sorry i though you were attacking me i with draw me little remark.

i am not buying new brass for every shot i am going to take i will be reciving 4 shipments of brass 30+30+30+10

agine i am sorry i though you were attking me

i have alot and i mean alot of powder so i am not worrying about powder for my 700 for a long time
i have at least 8 pounds of reloader 15 wich will last me a long time

Why even indulge him? And oh yeah this is as big a as I've ever seen. Didn't we elect a TPO...(Troll patrol Officer) ? Your services are in dire need.

jr so i am a troll for asking a simple question to wich i have recived nothing but rude coments to except a few will to particapte with out getting rude such as 500 nitro who answerd my question with out resporting to calling people names

Steve- Are you aware that the 700NE misfires more often than not? If you don't believe me ask Butch to let you test fire one. The only way to make a 700 fire is to include a small charge of bulleseye behind the primer. Unfortunately, there have been many reports of the bulleseye migrating into the powder charge ( during shipping and bouncing along in the ol Bakke) and again leading to a misfire at the worst possible time. Big problem with ol Jumbo or MBOGO taking careful aim at your ass. Primer lights, but doesn't ignite the charge,pushes the bullet and powder into the barrel and stops! Good luck clearing this mess, while your being killed!
Potentially you might be able to get ol Butch to make you cases with a .50BMG primer assuming the double has enough guts to light one off. By the way, the 600 NE has exactly the same problem. No offense, but the only reliable 700 is based on the .50 BMG case and is a single shot. Your gonna be way ahead with a 470NE or a 500 NE.-Rob

IF WRITING IN CAPITALS IS CONSIDERED 'SHOUTING' is writing in lower case considered whispering? i am just curious as i do not hear as well as i used to.

Black-powder-big-bore!

Why not build a .700 BMG IMPROVED? 1000 grainers at 3000 FPS or a 1200 grain bullet at 2600 FPS? It will be much more powerful than a .700 Nitro

bpbb,
What is the scheduled completion date on your Searcy?

butch said about 12-13 months i am not shure if it will be exactly that but i am shure it will be in that area

i will talk to butch today but he has not exp igition problems with the loads he is using because i talked to him about this subject befor.

if i find any problems with the 700 ill post them here

Rob, I did not know the 600 NE also had misfires. That is an interesting data point, and even if I could handle the recoil, would put me off the cartridge.

Seems the 577 is the edge of the envelope.

IMHO, the 577 is the top of the foodchain, and the limit of what *I* can shoot, in a reasonable weight gun, with no brake. I can't even imagine a 14# 700

100ft/lbs is enough for me, i'll tell ya.

jeffe

hey jeff and rob i just got off the phone i may have some data you may or may not want

the old orginal imr 4831 loads from h&h were in fact prone to misfire.

HOW EVER

THE NEW LOADS USING REL 15 AND A WAD HAVE ABSOLUTLY NO PROBLEMS

butch searcy has extensive 700 nitro shooting and load experience and the new loads he developed are 120% reliable he has never experienced a missfire with the new loads and he has full faith in them.

also the 700 nitro i am getting is 18.5 pounds

[ 03-03-2003, 22:24: Message edited by: black-powder-big-bore ]

bpbb. From all the research I have done on the actual use of double rifles by the "original" Ivory Hunters, I will offer the following advice. If Butch Searcy has not already got your 700 beyond the point of no return you might want to reconsider. Many of the "Old Ivory Hunters" found the 577 and the 600 Nitro to be too much of a good thing, ie. too heavy and too much recoil for quick follow up shots. I suggest you get and read "the Rifle-Its Development For Big Game Hunting", by S.R. Truesdell, Safari Press. [I recommend this book for all AR members]. I think a 577, 600, and the 700 Nitro are the wrong choice for a persons first double rifle. I think you would be much happier with a 450/400, 416/500, one of the 450's or a 470. I think even a 500 would be too much for a first double for anyone except for a person who had extensive experience with 458 and up bolt rifles.
Consider the above carefully.
With all that said, now that I have a fair amount of shooting/hunting experience with double rifles in 9.3X74R, 450/400 and 450 No2, I really WANT
[I do not need] an original British 577 or 600 Nitro. When I get Back from my 21 day Zim. Safari, I may resume ny search for one, as I would like to hunt Bull Elephant with one, I would take the 450 No2 as a spare.
Of course after I shoot a 577 or 600 Nitro and
re-attach all the body parts that get knocked loose I may decide the 450 No2 is plenty good enough.

450 no 2

i have owend a few doubles befor so this is not my first

and i also have shooting exp with a few guns that would make the 700 look like a red ryder bb gun

i used to owen a 2 bore elephant rifle that shot a 3500 grn ball at 1450 fps with a charge of 550 grns of fg black powder i sold this rifle to a gentle man from colorodo. i also used a 5000 grn conical with 480 grns of fg powder recoil would be described as attention getting.

i was woundering if you could email me and we can exchange a few emails on the subject also if you feel up to it i would love to talk to you via phone i would call you as i have a long distance plan i would love to about your african adventures.

My e-mail is listed, I have yet to visit the "Dark Continent" I go to Africa in June of 2004.

I just saw a video of my friend shooting his new "4 bore". Getting run down by an elephant would be preferable.........

Jim