Had a very nice Browning m71 converted to 50 Alaskan by Wild West Guns of Alaskan that I Traded for. When I went to pick it up at my local gun shop, we opened up the box, and the stock at the pistol grip was shattered. Broken in 4 pieces. Made me want to cry! The shipper is having UPS come by and look at it. At least it was fully insured. It has a couple of gold elk on the side and a moose on the other. Reciever is fully engraved. Very nice work. I hope it is resolved quickly and gets a new stock and matching forearm in a reasonable amount of time. I was crushed and pissed off at the same time. Gun was wrapped in lots of bubble wrap. The box had a pretty good folded dent in the side of it. We will see how this turns out. I hope UPS accepts responsablity and takes care of it.

Going to have a buddy post a couple of pictures soon. thanks

Because Wild West Guns touched it, I'm inclined to blame them! Honestly, I think most of the worlds problems can eventually be brought back to Wild West guns.

No its UPS...I have had two guns damaged by UPS...get ready for a fight insurance or not!!!

Ed

I won't be fighting with UPS. The shipper insured it and paid for the shipping. They either get it fixed or no trade. I had not heard any bad stuff about Wild West Huor to the above comments. The gun was new unfired when they shipped itprior Wild West made the gun about 10 years

My experience with UPS and a dinged shotgun is that UPS will say that because they did not pack it they are not responsible.

When ever I feel compelled to ship something it goes in an aluminum case.

Ups has a reputation for not paying insurance

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Ups has a reputation for not paying insurance

That has been my experience

quote:

Originally posted by bigdoggy2bore:
I won't be fighting with UPS. The shipper insured it and paid for the shipping. They either get it fixed or no trade. I had not heard any bad stuff about Wild West Huor to the above comments. The gun was new unfired when they shipped it prior
Wild West made the gun about 10 years

Wild West Guns reputation for quality work is not good

quote:

Because Wild West Guns touched it, I'm inclined to blame them! Honestly, I think most of the worlds problems can eventually be brought back to Wild West guns.

Of course its UPS, but the above statement is not far off... I can tell you an ugly story about WWGs...
but will save that for another day....

quote:

No its UPS...I have had two guns damaged by UPS...get ready for a fight insurance or not!!!

quote:

Ups has a reputation for not paying insurance

Both statements above 100% spot on........

I have had a few things busted by UPS and had a fight... ended up not being worth the effort, fortunately they were only a few $100 each......

I ship nothing but Fed Ex.... Some time ago sent a rifle to SSK, had a $2500 bastogne stock on it.. Fed Ex looks like they ran over it with a fork life, or hit the box against the wall with the forks... Busted the stock in half..... I was SICK to say the least..... This was in one of the light plastic hard cases, and in a card board box to boot... Could see the mark on the plastic box where it busted...

I had insured for $5000.00.. Called Fed Ex, turned in my paperwork and waited about a week. They called, I told the guy about it, got his phone number, email and such, he said they would take care of it in a week... OK, two weeks went by, sent him an email.... WTF? Nothing, Called him.. Then its like he did not know who I was, explained the whole thing again... he asks, "How much will it cost to repair?" Told him there is NO REPAIRS on this, total loss.... I sent photos.. AGAIN.... via email..... Then spoke with him after he received... I sent him an invoice that I had on the stock, just what I had paid... Finally he relented, said a check would go out in a week... It did, got the check paid in full. So finally they coughed it up, but it was not easy.... I think all shippers UPS, Fed Ex, whoever you will have to battle a bit...... Its the game they play...

Good Luck bigdoggy..... Sorry to hear about it, but at least it is not all on your end......

Michael

I only had one other gun damaged during shipping. It was with fed ex. They paid off with in a week.

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by bigdoggy2bore:
I won't be fighting with UPS. The shipper insured it and paid for the shipping. They either get it fixed or no trade. I had not heard any bad stuff about Wild West Huor to the above comments. The gun was new unfired when they shipped it prior
Wild West made the gun about 10 years

Wild West Guns reputation for quality work is not good

...that is being generous.

Sorry to hear about that stock I bubble wrap the shit out guns when I ship... But know that won't help when it gets ran over by a forklift... As far as Wild West been in a few times they over priced stuff don't know how they stay in buiseness... Their gunsmith prices are outrageous... I know a fella who spent 4grand on a rem 700 they built for him... I wasn't impressed just made one go huh you spent how much again..

I wonder if it would be better takeing them apart and shipping a smaller package that doesn't look so much like a fire arm.

Plus the overall package would be shorter and not subject to as much stress.

Well UPS called and got my pictures of the damage and are forwarding it to their insurance company. At least I have a number and a person to call if they don't proceed in a timely manner. I will keep progress posted for those interested. I will give UPS the benefit of the doubt until they try to screw me. This guy was very polite and helpful. Even though Wild West Guns did the work, and some of you don't think much of them, I think the gun is very nice. I have several friends that have owned their guns and they seem to love shooting them and have had them for years.

I worked for UPS for 24 years and know what you are up against. The claims rep is instructed to find any reason possible to deny culpability. You are very unlikely to get a satisfactory resolution to your claim. My advice is if it is denied to register a complaint with the corporate office in Atlanta, GA. Local management is terrified of getting a negative call from the corporate office. Corporate does not like getting customer complaints and will put the heat on local management to resolve the issue.
Now here is what the claims rep will be looking for. First is if the package is in new and unused condition which is impossible to determine once it has been shipped. If there are any old labels present or places where labels were torn off or cut off it will trigger an automatic denial. Next is whether or not the package meets the 200 lb. burst strength rating. This little nugget is buried in the small print of shipping manuals you have to request for that only a lawyer would bother to read in to. This requirement alone has probably caused more denials than any I had to deal with. The rep will also look at the type of tape used on the package. 2 inch packing tape is required and anything less is reason for denial. Next up is what kind of packing was used inside the box. This part has so many variables that it takes a life of its own. As long as some impact absorbing material was utilized and it took up all the interior space of the box it should be ok........should be but you may have to argue the point. If any contents were loose in the package that will be a reason for denial.
The reason claims are such a difficult issue is because they hurt a centers production numbers. These numbers are what are used to award yearly bonuses and/or stock bonuses. A percentage of every dollar UPS charges to ship is used as a buffer against claims. If they can stay under this percentage in claims payouts then it is extra money in the pot. Its a solid business practice but I have seen so many customers get genuinely ripped off because of it.
Now to enlighten you on what happened to your rifle. Knowledge is power. UPS uses a belt system to move parcels around their facilities. These belts can easily move 5 tons of merchandise at any time. When there is a jam of boxes at a turn that prevents the packages from proceeding forward the belt is still turning. This causes the boxes in the rear to start piling into the jam and all this weight is pushing forward and accumulating until the belt is stopped and the jam is cleared. You can just imagine what happens to some of the boxes at the front of this pile. When UPS increased their weight limit to 150 lbs and increased the box size to 160 cubic inches it compounded this problem exponentially because the facilities were not upgraded to meet the new requirements. This is obviously what caused the folded dent in your box and using this knowledge against any claim denial can only benefit you. If I had ever told this to a customer I would have likely been terminated but....it is what it is. No company wants to have a financial loss on a service or sale but it all boils down to honesty, integrity and customer service. The only way UPS acquired any competition in the first place was from unhappy customers.

That sounds pretty damn depressing. We will have to wait and see how it is handled.

Nah, the real depressing part will be whe you get it back from being restocked (on your nickel) you'll go try this high dollar conversion. Then you'll find out that it really doesn't work well. A quick call will inform you that it just ran out of warrenty the day before..

Keep records, explain in detail how you package a gun, photograph the box after its unpacked and you can see the damage and UPS will pay up pretty quick...I have had to make several claims over the years and got paid pretty quick..Bombard them with documentation is the secret..Sometimes I think its more than they want to read so the pay right up!

I sent them plenty of pictures so we will see.

The way I read this is, WWG is the shipper and must convince UPS to pay the claim. Bigdoggy700 is merely assisting WWG.

If UPS refuses to pay, bigdoggy700 only has to return the gun to WWG. The trade he had negotiated is off, and he can go about his business.

George

Unless you are a major customer (commercial) of UPS, your claim will be rejected. If you add extra insurance, your claim will be rejected. If you provide before/after pictures showing damage, your claim will be rejected. NEVER NEVER NEVER SEND ANYTHING VIA UPS.

I'm reasonably certain WWG has a commercial account; they send guns all over the U.S.

George

Not that it matters but the gun was converted by WWG. Bigdoggy did not say who the shipper was.

The gun was made by WWG about 10 or 12 years ago. The gun was owned and shipped by the owner of Darcy Ops Amory in Oklahoma

Darcy Ops is a rather large retail store. They use UPS exclusively. And ship about 1500you guns a year.

Long octagon stainless barrel ?

Bigdoggy I wish you luck! I detest UPS and it's insurance. I had a busted stock. They did not pay.

Barrel is half octagon and half found. 34" blue. Information is with insurance company. Decision will be made in a week.

Got word from the shipper that UPS had approved the packaging and will accept responsibility for the claim. Still lots of paperwork to do but it looks good. The box was not new and had been used several times before. May need a more detailed quote for approval, shipper is still filling out more forms. will keep you posted.

The shipper is filling out paperwork for UPS and I am supplying a more detailed quote to them for UPS. Taking longer, but it looks as though UPS is going to pay to fix the rifle.

We'll stay hopeful!

Good luck with Darc Ops. I purchased a gun on gunbroker from them and they sent me the wrong model. Honest mistake, but I'm still waiting to see how it resolves.

Can't really blame the good folks at WWG's for this.

They have stayed in close contact with me on all the steps dealing with UPS. We will wait and see how it all turns out.

I've started following the rules of Hill Country Rifle. Plastic case, bubble wrap, oversize box. Lately I've gotten a baby bed box from the local Pack-n-mail place, cut it in half and doubled it. I have only ever shipped rifles via USPS Priority Mail; no problems to date. My wife and a friend have had stuff shipped UPS with terrible results. Anything really heavy (over 50 lbs), I'd ship Central Freight or something similar.

My mother works in the antique business, and they have shipped antique glassware all over using good packing technique and USPS Priority Mail.

quote:

Originally posted by SAFARIKID:

I do not see evidence of glass bedding or a stock through bolt. Required on a heavy recoil lever gun!!!

When you build the new stock:

Machine a steel spacer to go between the tangs, large enough to drill & tap for a nice through bolt, around 5/16" in diameter. The tang screw goes through a hole drilled in the spacer. Use a long grade 8 bolt for the through bolt. Through drill the stock to receive the bolt. Through bolt long enough to have the head of the bolt well back in the thick portion of the stock. A hardened steel washer under the bolt head.

You want a good layer of bedding between the tangs and the wood. The spacer should be bedded also.

Shipping a nice gun in cardboard is a no no, I have all my rifles shipped in plywood boxes with 3/4" thick board sides & ends, everything screwed together.

That is very good advice WoodHunter on the use of a wooden box instead of cardboard. You will have to pay an incompatible fee and be charged for the increased weight but your contents will be well protected. To add to your advice I would use latex foam inside for packing and have the rifle wrapped in plastic in case of water damage. The main drawback of wood is getting a shipping label to stick to it. I advise printing duplicate shipping labels and place one inside the box in case the outer label is lost or damaged (actualy I do this for all shipments).

I'm rooting for you bigdoggy and hope UPS does the right thing and replaces the stock. Like I said before; Integrity is everything. I used to tell my customers that I could do something right a thousand times but if I did it wrong just once that's all anyone will remeber. It's when you do something wrong that you have to correct that mistake and maintain your integrity.

I think a through bolt may be in the way of the garfishes holder