If you had the choice of lugging and shooting an 8-pound (with scope) 9.3 X62 or a 9.5-pound (scoped) .375 H&H and you were way on the wrong side of 50, which would you carry for PG and a possible Cape buffalo in Africa (under the right and legal conditions) and big bears and elk in North America?

375

I'd take a pound off the 375 and make it a moot question.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
I'd take a pound off the 375 and make it a moot question.

Ditto.

what Tigger said!

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Absolutely the 375, wider array of bullets, easier to obtain brass, and a flatter-shooting cartridge. My 0.2

Eterry

That should depend on how bad your bones rattle when you pull a trigger. If they rattle quite a bit, go with the 9.3x62.

Keith

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
If you had the choice of lugging and shooting an 8-pound (with scope) 9.3 X62 or a 9.5-pound (scoped) .375 H&H and you were way on the wrong side of 50, which would you carry for PG and a possible Cape buffalo in Africa (under the right and legal conditions) and big bears and elk in North America?

Is there a wrong side of 50? It seems to me that the only alternative is to not reach 50 at all.

I turn 50 in March so I'm feeling philosophical.

Bill, this summer I will be on the wrong side of 60. I have both a .375 as well as a 9,3X62 and I have really come to prefer the 9,3. The old mauser cartridge makes up into such a nice portable rifle. My pick would be the 9,3X62.

Dave

Having received a CZ 550FS 9.3X62 for Christmas, I would take it.

Which one do you shoot the best?
If it's the 9.3 x 62, is it legal in the Country where you are hunting?
I've used the 375 on Buffalo so I know it works and others here have had success with the 9.3. They both will work.

Bill,

I am on the wrong side of 60 ... unless you think that being alive after 60 is the right side (which seems to me to be a health attitude

I have two 9,3x62s and a .375 H&H. Had a second .375 H&H and gave it to a friend. One 9,3x62 is a pretty much as manufactured 24" CZ 550 American. Is fitted with a 2.5-8 Leupold on CZ rings. If I remember correctly it weighs 8 pounds and a little.

The other is one of my "practical" builds ... a VZ.24 action with a 22" Douglas barrel in a cheap Fajen's synthetic stock. Is fitted with a 1.8-5.5 Zeiss Conquest on Leupold QWR rings. Weighs right at 8 pounds.

The .375 H&H is a Winchester M70 SS classic in an HS Precision stock mounting a 3-9x40MC Zeiss Conquest. Standard load pushes 300 gr Barnes TSX at 2600 fps. Weighs 9+ pounds. The rifle is kind of a typical safari rifle in that it is a bit nose heavy due to the heavy barrel contour. Great for shooting from sticks or a blind window.

All of the rifles are good to shoot. The .375 H&H does have a bit more push than the 9,3s but not significant. All are accurate. All kill very well.

9,3 286 gr Nosler partitions have taken Warthog, Impala, Blue Wildebeast, Kudu, Zebra, white tails and piggies. Never recovered a bullet. All were pass throughs.

The 300 gr TSXs from the .375 H&H have taken Hartebeast, white tails and piggies. Only recovered one bullet ... and that one had traveled the entire stern to stem length of a Hartebeast. Perfect mushroom and 98% retained weight.

The 9,3s are handier in the field as the actions are smaller and they weigh a little less. They have more normal barrel contours so they swing a bit better.

I think your choice should take into account where and what you want to hunt and how rough the terrain is that are going to hunt as well as what other rifles you own or are going to acquire.

I personally like a bit more thump than the .375 H&H for dangerous game ... .416s and up. Therefore, my .375 goes only as a spare gun. If you are going to use the rifle as your primary DGR then get the .375. If not, the 9,3s are really hard to beat.

Above all ... there is not a bad choice here. Enjoy what ever you decide to acquire!

I have a similar problem being 66 so I looked at it from a different angle. I calculated the recoil from a 9.5 lb rifle shooting both cartridges using a 300 gr at 2500 f/s for the 375 and a 286 gr at 2400 f/s for the 9.3. These are normal weights and velocities for each caliber as far as I can tell.

The 375 uses 78 gr of powder for a recoil of 37 ft/bs and the 9.3 uses 58 gr of powder for a recoil of 28 ft lbs.

Now don't no body go getting all nitpicky...I just averaged several reloading manuals for these figures.

The difference in recoil enegry has to do with the amount of powder, difference in bullet weight and rifle weight as you can see. 20 more grains of powder and 14 gr more bullet weight ONLY translates into 9 ft lbs of recoil in a 9.5 lb rifle...not very much I would say.

BUT...drop the weight of the rifle to 7.5 and the recoil goes up to 47 and 36 or go up to 10.5 lbs and the recoil goes down to 34 and 26 respectively.

If you can handle the recoil of a lighter rifle for one or two shots then go the lighter rifle or if not go the heavier rifle weight, although if I were chasing any kind of "Mr. Nasty" in Africa the weight of the rifle would be my last concern.

Besides, as you well know, it's not how big the hole in the barrel is, it's how well you can point it, but reducing the striking energy by reducing velocity or bullet weight in favor of less recoil could also reduce the value of YOUR hide in the bush. I think my hide is worth a lot more than a few ft lbs of recoil energy.

We all know how to lighten a rifle, reduce the velocity, use lighter bullets and so forth, all which will increas or decrease the felt recoil.

I see the question as nothing more than fitting the rifle/load to what I can handle, what I'm hunting or in this case what us old pharts can live with.

I have several large cal rifles most of which are in the 10-14 lb range in weight, 416 Taylor, 375 H&H, 45-70 using 525 gr bullets at velocities I won't post anymore and 12 GA FH using 525 gr to 730 gr slugs (only 7.5 lbs)all of which stomp the sh** out of me every time I touch one off. I also have loads for those same rifles that don't slap you around much more than a 6 lb 30-06.

I'm also in the process of building a 9.3x62 on a M98 action...just because...and I certainly don't "need" one, plus the money would buy a lot of reloading components for the other shooters...I have a hard enough time deciding which rifle to use...but it's fun building rifles and someone...someday...will get some use out of it.

Besides...if I, Mr. Wussyness, can handle a few rounds of 12 GA FH at 80+ ftlbs of recoil, almost anyone can handle a 375 H&H for one well placed shot.

Happy Holidays

I'd lose 10lbs. myself and go with the .375.

George

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
I'd lose 10lbs. myself and go with the .375.

George

But it's easier, not to mention more fun. To just buy another gun

quote:

Originally posted by MopaneMike:

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
I'd lose 10lbs. myself and go with the .375.

George

But it's easier, not to mention more fun. To just buy another gun

Or download the 375 to 2400 fps which should kill anything that needs killing and reduce recoil.

Or download the 375 to 2400 fps which should kill anything that needs killing and reduce recoil.[/QUOTE]

That's a really good point. Often times we load the big stuff too heavy and get the piss beat out of us. I've found a hundred or two fps off kills just as well and is much more fun to practice with. A 600ok at 2100-2200 fps is quite mild & fun in the right rifle. Take it to 2400 & "Katie bar the door" :-)

I would take the .375 for reasons cited above. But only if I shot it better than the 9.3.

If I shot the 9.3 better, I would take the 9.3 without the slightest qualm.

Do a good job of stalking and put the bullet in the right spot with either one of them and all will go well.

If weight is really a concern, I would get a Mod. 70 action, as they are the lightest weight option I think. Have Douglas put on a slim profile barrel and you could get the weight of a 375 or 9.3x62 down to 7 lbs. with a plastic stock (even less with an Edge stock, just don't tell McMillan what caliber it is!). With a single power scope you could get it down under 8 lbs. I would guess.

My 416 Taylor, without a scope, weighs 7.5 lbs. witha CZ 550 action. My 458 WM should come in around 7.8 lbs. when its done in a month or so.

Anyone hunting elk is worried about weight?

If you really want a lightweight rifle it can be done. But then I'm a big fan of lightweight rifles. Carrying that Taylor is so much fun.

9 1/2 pound 375's serve you better as fence posts!

I would take one of my 9.3x62's but a good friend of mine who is in his seventies, light build and chases Buffalo in the valley every year uses a light Blaser in 375H&H and a Merkel 470NE.
When he gets tired he lets a tracker carry the rifle.
By the way, Joe hunts with PH Myles McCallum of CM SAFARIS who he finds great to hunt with and works well at his pace.

According to many on this post I am on the wrong side of 65, which I do not understand. My kids gave me a "T" shirt saying "OLD GUYS RULE"
It's all in attitude.

When I hunt buff I carry a M70 416 Rem Mag or a 470 NE, depending on conditions.

Do what you want!

Guys, I took a CZ in 9.3 X 62 to Namibia in May. My brother and I both used it on PG, and I carried it most of the time as my younger brother's back is worse than mine. When I got back, I fell for another CZ in .375 H&H and swapped off the 9.3. I can't personally justify having both, but will admit the .375 is pretty clubby compared to that 9.3, and the recoil is certainly enough to make bench work much less pleasant than the 9.3. I reload, so ammo isn't the issue it is for some. I'm only 54, but "looking forward" to lumbar disk surgery this spring. I mostly started this thread to hear others' experiences, and as a palliative for cabin fever. Mighty cold and wet here ...

If you have both rifles, then the one you shoot the best. If you have one or the other and would have to purchase the other, take the one you presently own, spending the additional money of practice ammo. If you don't own either then the .375 H&H as it is a better long range cartridge you may need for elk. My two sense!

.375H&H Magnum rules ...

Bill...Nice area, Talent Or...went through there a couple of years ago and wanted to stay. How much snow you got? Mother nature better hurry up or next August will be He** waiting to happen.

Happy Holidays

Foobar: We've had a skiff and snow showers for the past three days, but today it is about 35 and drizzling, with snow another 1,000 feet up at about 3,000. Mount Ashland has 68 inches at the lodge ... It is a nice area, thanks.
Guess I need to spend some serious time with the .375 before I give it for the 9.3.

quote:

Originally.fm Bill/Oregon....[ I mostly started this thread to hear others' experiences, and as a palliative for cabin fever. Mighty cold and wet here ...

]]]]]][[[[---------------Best reason to build a new rifle .................Add dark to the cold and wet/ snow and you have S.E.Ak...........I,ve had both .......Only one 9.3x62 but a bunch of 375 H&H ect....The 375 is the more powerful of the 2 ......My 9.3x62 was the 20" barreled CZ550 Medium FS model with the stock cut back ......with my prefered load of a 250 gr X bullet @ 2600 fps it was very simular to shooting a 375 H&H ,, but it was very nice to lug around .......Still it went away in preference to more power ........If you have to rely on only your own rifle get a 375 ....if someone else will be there and can lay down a field of fire , the smaller rifle will be more fun to pack around .................

Bill ... I'm 56, have some degenerated disks in my back, live in Redmond and I have a CZ 550 in 375 H&H. I love it! Shooting off the bench is a little stout, but you can mitigate that by putting a bag of bird shot between you and the butt of the rifle or use one of those Caldwell Lead Slead shooting rests.

Shooting off-hand, I find the 270gr Remington Green box loads are about like shooting a 7 pound 30-06. Haven't tried any 300gr loads yet, but I don't forsee any real drastic increase in recoil. I can lay that CZ in the palm of my hand and it doesn't jump out -- it just rocks me back a little.

From everything I've seen posted on 4 different sites, you would probably be better off taking the 375 H&H. Depending on where you are hunting, the "minimum" caliber is .375 ... particularly when going for Buf. Now, having said that, I have read where depending on the country and the PH's judement of your shooting abilty, sometimes they will allow you to use a 9.3 caliber.

If the weight is a consideration, when I talked to "The Stock Doctor" about fixing my stock, he said that CZ put so much wood on these stocks that he has been able to lighten them by quite a bit. He lives in Tigh Valley here in Oregon.

Something else you could do, to condition your self to the weight of the rifle is to to something I read a while back. Take a piece of PVC pipe, say 1.5" or 2" ID, put about 10 pounds of sand in the tube and cap it off. Take a piece of light rope, like a sling, and pack it around on hikes. Get use to the weight and handle it off and on like it was a rifle. You might be surprised after a while how lite that rifle is.

Best of luck in which ever you decide.

I have not tried a 9.3 but do have two .375s. One is a heavy Win M70 the second a much lighter Whitworth.

When fired from sticks or freehand recoil from the Whitworth is no worse than a shotgun. When game is in sight, you won't even notice that.

When shot off the bench, a machine rest and/or a Past pad or both will allow 20-30 rounds of practice with 260-270 bullets and no pain issues whatsoever.

For carrying, a Vero Vellini sling solves any weight issues. BTW, I'm several years past 60.

Guys, thanks for all the advice. I'm going to work with the .375 some more, and am particularly curious to try Ray Atkinson's load with the box of 350-grain Woodleighs I have on hand. I agree that offhand or from sticks, recoil simply isn't an issue, and I didn't even have my recoil-attenuating rifle rest with me when I last shot it off the bench.
I'll admit that I was foolishly proud of the fact that I could keep up with the tracker and PH when scrambling up the kopjes in Namibia with my CZ 9.3, while the younger, fatter brother stayed with the hunting car and had a smoke. I'd just like to be able to do that with a rifle a pound and a half heavier.
Grove: I just might need to have a chat with the Stock Doctor ...
Happy New Year to one and all.

This is a good thread. I'm a 60+ type with rattling bones, make that no cartilege in my neck, so I downsized to the 9.3x62mm. I can shoot that well, and got three consecutive one shot kills with the ancient Mauser round this year (Nyala, Waterbuck, and Impala). I'd like to shoot a .375 H&H again, but it kills my neck. If I can get by using a .30-06, I'll drop back to that too.

LLS

I stepped off the back side of 50 eight years ago. As I scramble down the scree of life, I'm still carrying and shooting my safari-tricked Mod 70 375 without any problems. I have taken it to Africa more than any other rifle I own. It will be my primary African rifle forever. But I acquired a sweet little 9.3 just this year and can't wait to take it along next year.

I think a guy should get things organized at the bench as quickly as possible and do the rest of his practice in field positions. That's the real fun in shooting anyway.

Certainly appreciate your cabin fever. Below 0 each morning here above Durango. Wood stove in the loading room and a bit o' the amber in the evening...........

I'm 65, heading to Masailand in '09 or '10 (working on the dates right now), and will take my Mod 70 .375. Just spent a great afternoon at the range running max loads through it and I love the rifle. It already has one buff and other game to it's credit, so if I'm 65, weigh 175 and can put 30 rounds through it and only quit because they closed the range, I can't think of a single reason why a young whippersnapper of 50 or therabouts shouldn't own one.

And ditto on the Vero Vellini sling.

Additionally, if you're going for Cape buffalo, most PH's I have spoken with, and some on this forum, recommend the .375 H&H as the caliber of choice for tourist hunters. It is very effective on an extremely wide variety of game, just about anything you can hunt, and the 270 grain Remington softs used in practice print just about where the Rem. 300 A Frames go, which is my buff bullet of choice. As someone else said, if I had to sell all my rifles and keep just one, it would be my .375.

I am also on the north side of 50, and have shot both calibers, I settled on a pre '64 Win in 375. If I had to toss every other rifle I own and hang onto one only, I would keep my 375.
Out of interest, have a look around this site, and see how the 9.3 sits in the accuracy stakes. Unfortunately, PMP have not offered 375 ammoin this competition that I am aware of.
http://pmp.co.za/images/leaders.pdf

WILL
you try putting a hunters edge on something with a bit more grunt than a 30 cal mag and see what happens...even then your going to have issues.....if you dont belive me have a chat with those who have tried what you said
Daniel

I'm 64 1/2, soon to be a bonafide card-carrying old fart, and I'll take my .375 H&H for my primary PG gun this year. For DG, I have a .416 Taylor that wants a buff.

Don't get me wrong - the 9.3x62 is a great round. I love shooting it and wouldn't hesitate to have it as my primary Alaska gun, but for Africa the .375 would be my choice.

Neither my .375 or .416 seem to know or care how old I am.

Namibiahunter

Namibiahunter: Those Himba girls sure are cute! My first encounter was in a supermarket in Otjiwarongo, in the cereal aisle. Enchanting!

Home thoughts from another Old Fart in the 60 + club.
The 375 Ruger is the way to go. It's about half way in weight tween the 9.3 and the H&H.
Don't shoot, I think the Ruger will become a popular rifle!
A HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE.

at age 22 i'm young enough to be your grandson, so take my opinion for what it's worth.

here are the reasons why i chose a 9.3 in preference of the .375:
*i wanted a rifle mainly for scandinavian big game such as moose and bears + that once or twice in a lifetime buff hunt.
*over here you can get ammo everywhere they sell anything gunrelated.
*lighter, shorter and easier-to-handle with lighter recoil.
*since all my big game hunting takes place inside 200m, the 9.3x62 has all the trajectory i could wish for.

before you make up your mind, i would like you to look closely at my 1. argument, and find out what are you REALLY gone use it for.
i would rather bring a good moose/bear rifle for a once in a lifetime buffalo hunt, than to do my "everyday" big game hunting at home with DG rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Steffen-9.3

at age 22 i'm young enough to be your grandson, so take my opinion for what it's worth.

here are the reasons why i chose a 9.3 in preference of the .375:
*i wanted a rifle mainly for scandinavian big game such as moose and bears + that once or twice in a lifetime buff hunt.
*over here you can get ammo everywhere they sell anything gunrelated.
*lighter, shorter and easier-to-handle with lighter recoil.
*since all my big game hunting takes place inside 200m, the 9.3x62 has all the trajectory i could wish for.

before you make up your mind, i would like you to look closely at my 1. argument, and find out what are you REALLY gone use it for.
i would rather bring a good moose/bear rifle for a once in a lifetime buffalo hunt, than to do my "everyday" big game hunting at home with DG rifle.

For all the reasons you stated I would choose the 9.3x62 also. But since most of my hunting now take place in Africa I would have to have to choose the .375 H&H over the 9.3.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon
Namibiahunter: Those Himba girls sure are cute! My first encounter was in a supermarket in Otjiwarongo, in the cereal aisle. Enchanting!

Namibiahunter