I know they aren't too popular, but what are your thoughts on .416 doubles? Years ago, Taylor opined that if Westley Richards would make his double available in Rigby, it would be the perfect all around rifle. Several people chamber for the 500/416 and Merkel makes the Safari in Rigby. Down side is that you don't have as much hammer effect for stopping, but on the upside, a quick release scope would allow you to use lighter bullets, sighted in for one barrel for plains game, and the double for big stuff up close. Weight is generally about exactly the same as a 416 bolt gun, and it is shorter and handier.

Any thoughts?

Someone posted on another thread that the #1 chambering for new Kreighoffs was the 500/416 followed by the 470 NE so I guess they are more popular than you thought.

I think its a safe bet that most Americans buy many more 470s than 416s but we are by no means the total market.

Art,

I have a friend who inhereted a pair of Westley Richards double rifles in .416 Rigby and .450 No. 2. His reports on these rifles were very favorable. The only downside was once each year when he ordered ammunition, the sticker shock was enough he had the voucher sent directly to his accountant so he didn't have to deal with it.

The first review of the Krieghoff .500/.416 in Man/Magnum magazine was not good. The ammunition they provided proved to be too soft when used on a big critter. I understand this has been corrected.

I have fired an older WR .450/.400, and I thought that was a pretty neat double rifle (ordinarily I stick with magazine rifles).

jim

quote:

Originally posted by Art S.:
I know they aren't too popular, but what are your thoughts on .416 doubles? Years ago, Taylor opined that if Westley Richards would make his double available in Rigby, it would be the perfect all around rifle. Several people chamber for the 500/416 and Merkel makes the Safari in Rigby. Down side is that you don't have as much hammer effect for stopping, but on the upside, a quick release scope would allow you to use lighter bullets, sighted in for one barrel for plains game, and the double for big stuff up close. Weight is generally about exactly the same as a 416 bolt gun, and it is shorter and handier.

Any thoughts?

Art S, I wish Merkel would have chambered the Safari for the 500/416NE rather than the rimless 416 Rigby. I'm not worried about the rifles shooting off face with the Rigby, as some are, but I am worried because it is a rimless cartridge in a double rifle, regardless of caliber! IMO, a rimless cartridge in a double rifle is asking for a malfunction, and in one used for dangerous game is, again IMO, a serious mistake!

As far as stopping power there is an abundance of that in the Rigby, or the 500/416NE, and the long slinder 416 bullets will penetrate with the best of them, as long as a quality bullet is used! Stopping is only done at close range, and when a stop is needed, the bullet MUST disable the CNS by hitting the brain, or Spine, or passing close enough to them to stunn long enough to get in a finishing shot. So, with that in mind, The verious 416s are very good at long range or for stopping.

The mounting of a scope on a double rifle doesn't need to use only one barrel, if properly done, and the range for precice bullet placement doesn't depend on useing light bullets. However, if you want to use lighter bullets in your double, there is a formula to make the rifle regulat with them. 450NE No2, who posts here, developed this formula, and it seems to work! Pick a bullet that is as close to 75% of the weight of your heavy bullet, and use with the same powder load that regulates with the heavy. This way, you don't have to use only one barrel for long range shooting with your scope! The use of a scope on a double rifle is a crime to most of the old purests, but I simply say, "It is just a useful addition to a fine hunting rifle, makeing it a better rifle, and that is hard to do with a good double rifle!"

A doctor I knew had a Krieghoff over and under in 416rem mag. We shot it a bit. I didn't see him for a couple of years then when I did he told me the frame had cracked on it.

So they are out there with good bullets and a decent 416 caliber I don't think a 416 double would be any worse then any other DGR.

I worry about a 416 Rigby shooting off the face as I know of one that did and have talked to some others who have also seen this, now I don't know if that was with hot handloads or factory ammo, but the Rigby can develope some very high pressure in a bolt gun and one could get hold of a hot bolt gun load by accident, but at any rate a double should have a rim, thus the 500-416, which in my estamation is a great double rifle caliber...It doesn't have the "knockdown" of a .470 what ever knockdown is?? other than a coined word...I doubt that knockdown, engergy, pounds feet, and all that has much to do with anything, otherwise one could stop a fright train with a baseball..rifles basically kill by knocking big bloody holes in an animal and letting the juice out of him and he strokes out, as far as I'm concerned, so I would just as soon have a 416 as a 600 N.E. myself.

There is of course the .416 Chapuis, which is a rimmed .416 with Rigby-like ballistics. Since Chapuis and A-Square had a parting of ways, A-Square stopped calling the cartridge .416 Chapuis and now just calls it .416 Rimmed. I think it's still in their catalog and someone must be making rifles for it.

Ray,
you are right, that in a rigby double you could easily get some "barnes'ed up weatherby type loads" pretty easily

the 500/416 is a 44kpsi loading... iirc, so is the 416 rigby.

What I am planning on doing later in the year, or in the spring, is to do a shotgun based double, chambered with the 500/416, but loaded to 450/400, 400gr at 2150, and so marked on the barrel.

jeffe