Would it be safe (sane) to work up some "hot" loads for a new Winchester Model 1895 in .405? I think Winchester chambered the recent limited editions in .30-06 as well, so theoretically the action could handle moderate pressures on the order of 50,000 psi. I can't imagine that there would be any problem with Hornady brass being too soft for such moderate pressures. Quickload makes it seem like 2500 fps with a 300 gr bullet wouldn't be too much trouble at around 50,000 psi.

I think if this would make a really interesting "second" rifle to take to Africa with hot loads in either Barnes-X or North Fork (both available in 300 gr), as in theory it could do anything a .375 could do (although I wouldn't want to tackle the larger members of the Big Five with it). Kind of walk in Teddy's footsteps...

Since the rifle has iron sights so you do not need to boost the 300 grain velocity to flatten trajectory, if I thought I needed more "power" than the factory load I would go up in bullet weight to 350 or 375 grains.

I have an Winchester 1895 in .405 Winchester that I plan to take to Africa this summer. Hogdon lists several "Africa capable" loads at their website, particularly with 400 grain Woodleighs.

Unfortunately, my rifle had a chamber with very little throat and the bullets wouldn't fit in the chamber without engaging the rifling. Amazingly, my buddy had a .405 reamer lying around and hand turned a wee bit more throat in it. It now will easily shoot 400 grain Woodleigh solids at 2000 fps (that's .450/.400 "tropical" load velocity). I also have a good supply (thanks to guys on AR) of the old Barnes 350 grain X-bullets in .411 caliber. They hit same point of aim at 2125 fps.

There is still a problem, though... When one seats this bullets to the channelure, only two bullets will feed without the tip hanging up... It seems that the magazine gets shorter the deeper you get.. if that makes any sense... in other words... you end up with a three shot DGR and that ain't quite right. Though I haven't tried these solutions for the feeding problem, I think I could either:

1. use my hand channelure tool and make another further up the bullet, lay off .5 grain of power because of seating the bullet deeper and the rounds would feed, or..
2. Buy a Lee factory crimp die... probably the best solution, since both bullets listed above have enough "straight" wall past the grove for a good crimp, or, finally
3. Just buy the new 300 grain Barnes X's made especially for the .405 Winchester. Sectional Density is o.k.... not perfect... but o.k.... and you won't lose any by shedding lead, of course. Ty at Barnes says that it is definately Bufallo capable.

Finally, Mike at North Fork may have solved all the problems.. he wrote me a few months ago and told me that he had bought a .405 lever gun to develop a solid and a soft that fed well. WHATEVER he makes works... Contact him???

One more thing.. I couldn't shoot the rifle worth a flip with the buckhorn rear sight so I found a reproduction Model 21 Lyman peep and had Roger Ferrell put it on (it took some 'smithing). It has a inter apperture that flips down to give you a "ghost ring" if you need it (like in the Tall Grass). It is expensive at $200 plus the 'smith work, but it is "period" correct and allows me to shoot less than 3" at 100 yards with both solids and softs.

I also had the trigger smoothed down to a creepless 3.5 pounds. I find the gun as modifed as one of the fastest handling rifles I have and after I take a buff with my Westley Richards .450/.400 (same Woodliegh bullets)... I'll don my pith helmet and become T.R.... Who I look like anyway?????

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
I find the gun as modifed as one of the fastest handling rifles I have and after I take a buff with my Westley Richards .450/.400 (same Woodliegh bullets)... I'll don my pith helmet and become T.R.... Who I look like anyway?????

GOOD FOR YOU! You might even surprise yourself with those 400gr loads! Boy! you do look like T.R.! I even bet this would get a "bully" out of him!
The ol' .405 is a totally different animal loaded with the 400gr Woodleigh. Most guns shoot it more accurately that the lighter standard 300gr. as well. Decades of being bad-mouthed for poor penetration will soon do an about face to boot with the bigger pill...... Love it!

BigRx

I have pushed 400 gr Woodleighs to 2170 fps with ruptured primers (metal flow down the firing pin hole, love those rebounding hammers). That load was with Rel 7 and produced better than 70,000 psi chamber pressures.

A more sane 400 gr load is in the 2000 to 2100 fps range with IMR3031. I could not get enough enough 4895 into the case to get past 2060 fps, with the 400 gr Woodleigh. I also had to recut the cannelures to get them to feed from the magazine, it had nothing to do with the chamber in my rifle). The Judge does point out something that is very important though. The 405 Winnie has little to no free bore, so wide meplat bullets require SHORT COLs to be safe.

I have pushed cut down 400 gr Woodleighs (365 gr weight after alternation) to 2280 fps with IMR3031, pressures in the mid 60's (equivalent to max average 270 Win loads, which the 1895 has been chambered in).

The Hornady 300 gr pills DO NOT stay together at impact velocities over 2200 fps! So I use them only for plinking.

My hunting load is with the 300 gr Woodleigh pushed to 2500+ fps.

IMR 4895 will get you to 2330 fps with 110% powder compression with the 300 gr bullet. It is running around 50ksi.

IMR3031 will get you to 2500+ fps with the 300gr bullet and ~ 110% powder compression. It will be running around 63000 psi.

Rel 7 (suitable ONLY for the 300gr bullet) will beat out the IMR3031 and approach 2550 fps at a chamber pressure of ~ 69000 psi.

My rifle is most accurate with the 300 gr Woodleighs at either 2415 fps or 2500 fps using IMR3031.

I have express sights on my rifle now. I could hit crap with that buckhorn aboration of a rear sight!

So the short answer to your question is yes you can hot rod it. In doing so however, play it safe, make sure your loads keep the bullets off the riflings by at LEAST 0.03", and work up slowly. Also WEAR SAFETY GLASSES! The failure mode in this rifle is a pierced primer, and your eye is directly behind the gas bleed port!

AC, how about posting a picture of you holding your 405.

Hog Killer,

Here you go, that is the M1895 in 405 Winnie.




ASS_CLOWN

I just have one question when you bully boys are shooting the 1895 loaded to the gills......does the split lever ever bite your middle finger? I admit to being a 260 pound pussy, but my 1895 rebarreled to 35 Whelen brings the blood everytime i shoot it! Dirty bastard is a pleaure to shoot but seems determined to bring blood one way or another. I jst want to add that i had Dennis Olson in Montana do the rebarreling/bluing, action/trigger slicking and also had a Lyman 66 installed and his work is faultless. The gun still recoils more than I expected but it sure shoots good.

Thanks guys. Whew! All this time I thought it was just me not being able to use those factory irons.

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:
Thanks guys. Whew! All this time I thought it was just me not being able to use those factory irons.

On my 30-06 Browning mod #95 I had the buckhorn sights pulled and Lyman #66 for the Winchester 1886 installed. The Lyman sights work great!
On my Winchester #95 I found a brand new Redfield reciever sight that will require a bit of milling and drilling to work. Those Redfield sights are hell for stout, all steel.
I've learned to shoot my 405 mod 95 wearing a glove on my right hand. The leather glove keeps my hand from sliding and taking the thwack.
Jim

quote:

Best-ever misquote as posted by ASS_CLOWN:
I have pushed 400 gr Woodleighs to 2170 fps with ruptured primers (metal flow down the firing pin hole, )

I am an IMBECILE!

And someone would EVER take reloading advice from a fella that appears to routinely blow primers?

I only heard JudgeG mention tight throats in these 1895's. They are something to watch out for. A friend blew his up with a combination of tight chamber and untrimmed brass. Watch your OAL and hot loads in these rifles!
Winchester replaced the gun but it didn't fix his wrist-and he makes his living ussing his wrist. He was lucky he didn't loose an eye or worse. It came completely apart at the chamber.

Dr. Duc,

I mentioned it. I would say that they have NO throat whatsoever.

ASS_CLOWN

Sorry. I missed that in your post. Your points are well taken in my limited experience with this rifle.
Whe I was a kid there was an old gunsmith that has a dozen or so 1895's behind doors in his living room and kitchen. One day I asked him about them. He said "Old gun. Not much good. Cain't get no shells for 'um no more."
He did love Parker and Ithaca shotguns though.