The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores African Rifle MarketGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| One of Us |
What's going on with the African Rifle Market? Two weeks ago I watched a golden era .416 Rigby, built by Rigby which was highly engraved, on a Magnum Mauser action with original detachable scope mounts and what looked like the original probably Ziess Scope. This rifle went through two 10 day bidding cycles on Gunbroker without a single bid. The opening bid was $8900.00? I talked to the seller who was selling it as an estate sale and he said there had been 25 people watching the gun but no bids. The rifle was finally pulled. I thought this gun was a steal at that price and had I not recently bought a .404 Jeffery by Wilks in England I would have bought the gun. Looking at the prices out there on the other gun sites for Mauser .416's and what happened with this gun I'm really confused by this market. | ||
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| One of Us |
African hunting rifles are very much a discretionary luxury expense. Right now, the market isn’t that strong. It’s quite a capitalist enterprise- demand is weak, the prices have fallen. Frankly, while I might be in a position if I found a nice one at a reasonable price, I’ve been screwed on gunbroker and won’t even look there anymore. | |||
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| One of Us |
There is only one real pawn shop near where I live. Usually just junk, a rifle or two and jewelry. Not my cup of tea but I had time and walked through one day. The place was packed full! A rack full of entry level rifles and a few same hand guns. Shelves of better stuff behind the counter! I asked, more people getting loans that do not have money to come back and get it out of hock! There is a price on it. I you are interested I might be able to do better. Need to move some stuff! It is a sign of the times! Covers all walks of life! | |||
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| One of Us |
I think the majority of people that can afford an expensive rifle and go to Africa are generally in the later part of their life. There are less of us in that age group that haven't been there done that by now. I'm 65, been there 6 times have a trip booked to Cameroon early 26, may go on one more buffalo hunt, after that it's get a lease in TX for me. What I do with the 375s and up I don't know yet, but I doubt I get what they were worth 10 years ago, but I never looked at rifles as a monetary investment  | |||
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As usual, we can blame the government. Who needs an elephant rifle if he can’t hunt an elephant and bring home the trophy? Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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It's a shame that all the very great things that we older people valued in life is coming to an end. I fear, with few exceptions, that what we valued as important will be forgotten. I feel blessed to have enjoyed our time in history. | |||
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keep in mind that the anti's are not dumb...They will use every trick they can to disarm the people. Don't hurt to be a litle paranoid! | |||
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| One of Us |
Duane, You are right. This coming election will probably determine our future as gun owners and Americans. | |||
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One of Us |
Don't we think that taste and interest is changing? As far as I've seen none of our publications feature stock checkering, fit and form, no one's writing about wildcat cartridges, reloading, leather work or knife handle wood. I see AR's, "rifle systems", modular this, that and the other. The picture in the press all seem to advocate "tactical" and the hunting rifles advertised all have detachable magazines that hold several, several cartridges. Ruark, Capstick and Hemingway aren't read. The gun industry is focused on selling straight wall cartridges, ten pound AR-10's chambered in 500 S&W and Mossbergs. My home town is very gun enthusiastic, but I'd guess I may be the only person here with African looking hunting rifles and of those, half are in plastic stocks, so not really "classic". I don't think you could give away a 470 Nitro Express here. | |||
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| One of Us |
I have to agree with Tpr. 1919, times change with each generation, and what one liked the other may not. Look at muscle cars from the 60’s, all driven by old guys and not much of a market with the younger crowd. I first saw this phenomenon in the late 80’s when Duesenbergs that were worth over a $million were selling for 1/10 that much. I think that market has recovered a bit. It’s best to just enjoy what we have, in the times we are living in. | |||
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| One of Us |
Big bores are a limited market, especially upper end pretty rifles. I see quite a few beautiful rifles I'd love to have, but how many rifles suitable for DG do I really need at my age, especially since at the end of the day, I know I'm going to go with my go-to working .416 Rem. that I don't care if it gets a scratch or a ding. So if I bought it, it's a safe queen. | |||
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One of Us |
From where I stand part of what is going on is the lack of decent hunting opportunities. A lot of people I used to hunt with have become disenchanted a long time ago, and now even some of the die hards have had enough. My best friend of 50+ years decided to skip big game hunting altogether last year and go deep sea fishing instead. I never thought I'd see the day. This has a trickle down effect to children and grandchildren too. When the hunt isnt what it used to be, people will move on, and a lot of them already have. I dont know about Africa rifles. But I do sense that times have certainly changed. No doubt about it. AK-47 The only Communist Idea that Liberals don't like. | |||
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I have to say that with all the observations each of you have expressed there is really a true picture of what is going on pained from every aspect of your experience. | |||
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| One of Us |
Oh hell, I'll be the odd man out. I sell quite a few big bores and African rifles, most of the better stuff never sees the internet as it is placed with a phone call or two. I have several younger clients who are avid collectors. Double rifles are down, classic bolt guns and quality single shot rifles bring strong money and move briskly. Myself and several others are planning return trips to hunt Africa and I hunt throughout the West here in the states yearly. Certainly getting more costly and more of a challenge to put good hunts together but I'm in the game until the end. What was that Richard Pryor said? I ain't dead yet.... | |||
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I like your attitude Steve and I concur. The airline hassles are a royal pain, but once you get to the hunting grounds, it all dissolves. At least for me anyway. I will hunt as long as I'm able. DRSS | |||
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While I'm not the "odd man out " I can't but help but add that of the backlog I have, there is only one that's under 300 H&H. The blend is 338, 404. 416.458 and a couple 500 Jeff's As far as I know, they are all destined for Africa hunts. Small sample in the real world...But | |||
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| One of Us |
Duane, wouldn’t part of what you see be that folks are looking for “their own” rifle, as opposed to someone else’s? Frankly, if I could have gotten a historic rifle for what I paid for mine, I don’t know if I would have… I have put nicks and dings in them, and refinished and rebarreled a couple of them. Rebarreling a classic Holland and Holland seems somewhat sacrilegious to a rifle with history. I do think as Steve pointed out there are exceptions, but for the most part the number of participants is shrinking, and those that do participate now often will deliberately choose to either have a new bespoke gun, or, choose one of the new soulless but practical weapons being made today. The number of folks feeling financially secure and desiring essentially to pay a significant premium for a, when all is said, used gun is shrinking right now. Offer those old Rigby’s or Hollands for what it costs to buy a new (factory) rifle and they won’t stick around… but the sellers want a premium and the market is just not there right now. | |||
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| one of us |
Me. My wife asked why do I need a elephant gun. I told her to keep the elephants out of the garden. She said we don't have any elephants in the garden. I said see it is working. | |||
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I love that! Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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P dog, My wife is pretty understanding and never gets in the way of another hunt or rifle purchase. But she does ask interesting questions. Once, when I was considering another double specifically for elephant, she seemingly innocently asked me how many rifles I currently had that were completely adequate for elephant. There was an awkward silence. | |||
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Edited for my experience - I told her that was privileged information opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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| One of Us |
Can't argue ..Some folks are happy with a Timex..Others..just WANT a Rolex and some have the means to buy what they want | |||
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| One of Us |
The market is odd right now, but not near as weak as many feel. Good, rare stuff still brings really strong money. Everyday working rifles, less so, this is especially true with doubles. I have had very strong sales of some really high dollar vintage rifles the last few years. The same is true for restoration work on vintage guns, I have had quite a few big bore high dollar rifles in for refurbishment. The idea that demand is down may be true overall, but it remains really solid on good stuff. | |||
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Mine is an upgraded Timex lol Ebony forend and grip cap being added (on a budget!)  Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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Noting wrong with it as is...I admire no bullshilt working rifles . Pleasing design with superb workmanship make it "ROLEX" | |||
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Thanks Duane, coming from you that's a great compliment! Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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| One of Us |
Heard the joke: What's the average age of a hunter? Deceased! Younger people are less and less interested in killing rare, innocent, animals. They are far more interested in learning how to survive in an environment where dangerous hominids have guns. Tactical, high capacity weapons are well outselling traditional hunting weapons. I did ask a clerk at a local gunstore how often they sold an expensive wood and steel bolt hunting bolt gun, and the answer was "not often". I see more shooters at the range with F Class bolt rifles than I do traditional bolt guns. I cannot recall seeing a 375 H&H or 458 Win Magnum for decades. Who shoots the things? And at what? A car collector bud, over two decades ago, told me how the prices of Model T's were dropping. The people who remembered them as kids, were dying of old age. People wanted vehicles they could drive on the highway. At the time, the late 50's to late 60's vehicles were increasing in price. Demand very much reflects generational issues. | |||
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| One of Us |
You should get out more. I have sold quite a few nice, wood stocked, high dollar big bores recently. Who shoots these things? Quite a few people do. | |||
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| one of us |
In Wisconsin the average of a deer hunter last year was 62. I told my grand children if they keep hunting they well have golden years ahead of them Lots of deer less hunters | |||
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Sure, some are still being sold, but overall, demand for such items is way down from 20 years go. Anyone remember the mass DR orders that took place right here on AR? Our local gun shop does not stock wood stock guns and when they get one in on trade or consignment, they call me to come and ID it. In fact, just 3 days ago, I had to ID a 96 Swede Master, and a 91 Argentine. Which I bought for $100. Black plastic stuff; very popular and even the old guys buy them; I talked to one today who said that his AR 450 was the best deer rifle he ever had and he is selling all his bolt actions. Too hard to operate and kick too much; age 61. Sad.... | |||
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| One of Us |
Quality is always rare. Average customs drop in value, but seriously high quality do not. I am always in the market for high quality rifles or shotguns. I have bought a number of lemons but also a number of high quality that turned out to be great. It is frequently a crap shoot. The other lesson I have expensively learned is to never buy something I don’t know a lot about. I got hosed on a Rigby and a few other fake customs but have learned to learn. | |||
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| One of Us |
Yes, and I assume you are already over the age of 45. I do not see the younger crowd buying such things or even knowing what they are. | |||
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| One of Us |
I am over 45. The younger crowd will buy when they can afford the better things in life… | |||
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| one of us |
To start with Africa has gone crazy with the price of Safaris, PG and DG, and the bread and butter 7 day safari is a thing of the past and this floats down to double rifles and Mauser bolt actions. A DG safari is out of sight due to black African marketeering Its become a rich mans game. A plastic and stainless steel gun has suckered the market. A plastic and ss rifle can be built for next to nothing. We'll see how the gun market goes in Jan, Feb and march..We lived in the golden years of shooting and hunting.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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| One of Us |
I've noticed a trend lately with name brand African Rifles. I did a fair amount of trading over the years but it seems now that most of the dealer with used African Rifles have them on consignment which makes it impossible to trade on. | |||
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| One of Us |
The best "trade" is cash... I have been stung too many times on gun trades. There is a winner and loser in a trade and I prefer not being either. Hence, cash is king. | |||
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| One of Us |
No, the younger crowd will never migrate into the DG market when they start earning more money (look at the pricer of housing over the past ten years); they did not grow up in the era of Outdoor Life, etc, showing pictures and articles of Cape buffalo Hunting in Africa. They are products of a modern era where such things are inhumane. Ray said it; it was a Golden Age, and will never reappear. I am sitting on a dozen or so of them; all will be sold at a loss at some future point; I never got to Africa but I have all the guns from 500 NE on down. | |||
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